Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?
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"First, a person who is chronically sick and malnourished just doesn't have much energy or stamina to study and be critical. So first, you just have to stop poisoning yourself by eating what the government and dietitians
are selling as a healthful diet, and once you have the strength to read and think, then you realize who is doing what to you, and you start investigating the food industry, the agricultural production industry, the science industry that supports the agricultural imposition, and the political system that justifies the medical and agricultural economic imposition. All of these are very clearly wound together in a system to maintain class dominance. It started in the 1930s depression with the government having a three-tiered diet. One to prevent starvation in the very poor, one an economical diet to get along on very little, and then at the top a healthy diet."
-Ray Peat"People need to start understanding that the system is systematically murdering them, and understanding that the situation is desperate, they need to see that solidarity with life, against capital, is their hope." RP
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@buckminster I've been very ill before, both psychologically and physically. When I felt insecure about my ability to rise in the hierarchy I had a constant tendency to want to believe in Leftist tropes. As soon as I got healthy (both in mind and body) I wanted to be left alone. Nietzche talks about this.
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@Aryan_Racist It is possible to be a leftist and want to be left alone. I'm one of them. There is a strong individualist left-wing tradition. If you want to be left alone, don't you think others want that and deserve it too? Because your profile pic represents the opposite- fear, hate, and hostility. Empathy is achieved from an excess of energy. As that energy expands it extends beyond the individual, forming a perspective of our shared humanity. And what is good for you is good for me, because we are all interconnected.
"People need to start understanding that the system is systematically murdering them, and understanding that the situation is desperate, they need to see that solidarity with life, against capital, is their hope." RP
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@buckminster said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
The west is right wing. The crisis of the west is the crisis of capitalism. The overtone window has gone so far right that folks think someone is left wing if they drink Starbucks and don't hate gay people.
(The overtone window was not shifted by the right, but by the left (mostly around 2016) by calling everyone not drinking starbuck soy a nazi.)
@buckminster said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
Capitalism is the dictatorship of the rich and fascism is capitalism with the gloves off.
@buckminster said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
The right wing won in the west.
All those are wrong. Have you even read Evola? Trying to delineate right from left based on socialism or capitalism is a futile undertaking.
"Nothing is more evident than that modern capitalism is just as subverisve as Marxism. The materialistic view of life on which both systems are based is identical; both of their ideals are qualitatively identical, including the premises connected to a world the center of which is constituted of technology, science, production, 'productivity', and 'consumption'. And as long as we only talk about economics classes, profit, salaries, and production, and as long as we believe that real human progress is determined by a particular system of distribution of wealth and goods and that, generally speaking, human progress is measured by the degree of wealth or indigence - then we are not even close to what is essential..." - Evola
Socialistic ideas (though not limited to socialism) of charity and limited inclusivity (Catholicism) or social welfare and worker unions (Hitler) is not necessarily not right wing. Neither dictatorship (Franco) nor freedom from dictatorship (have you even read Junger?).
To be honest trying to objectively demarcate where leftism starts or ends is murky, so I tend to base it on intuition (everyone I don't like is a leftie). It usually comes down to objective moral standard (God/religion) and preference for ones own people - blood and soil, tradition. These are of course anti-capitalistic and not compatible with modern establishment so its silly IMO to say that the West is currently right wing.
Peatism, thought left leaning in principle, is founded on acknowledgement of natural order (not gay/trans-humanism compatible) and requires a degree of will to power, so with some modifications it is potent for right wing thought.
@buckminster said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
Speaking of health stereotypes it wasn't long ago when fash was associated with fat, ugly, dysgenic folks - and they still are to an extent, just watch videos of klan rallies.
Maybe it was the case in US, but not in Europe. You seem to have very US-centric view with historical perspective ending at 20th century.
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@buckminster Right-left dichotomy is used purely polemically. On its own the distinction is meaningless. It can only be understood by the group that is being excluded from the category "left" or "right" by the speaker.
I'm right wing so: I exclude sin and hideous; and embrace beauty, strength and war against all that is evil. I exclude absolute equality and tabula rasa; and embrace hierarchy, blood and soil. I exclude tolerance of weakness and sickness; and embrace charity, virtue and selfless sacrifice.
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@zawisza said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
I'm right wing so: I exclude sin and hideous; and embrace beauty, strength, and war against all that is evil. I exclude absolute equality and tabula rasa; and embrace hierarchy, blood and soil. I exclude tolerance of weakness and sickness; and embrace charity, virtue and selfless sacrifice.
We are living in a social ecosystem that needs checks and balances. Therefore, a whole (Gaussian) spectrum of political views is needed to keep the system healthy.
There is no (master) hierarchy, there are multiple hierarchies that intertwine with flat (or fractal) communal structures.
Rather than divide people into two classes, conquerors and victims, better to recognize that we all have two aspects, individually and collectively: exploitation and nurturing. ~normonics
“Selfishness beats altruism within groups. Altruistic groups beat selfish groups. Everything else is commentary.” ― David Sloan Wilson, Edward O. Wilson
In our history systems worked best where there was a proper balance between adventurous entrepreneurs and unions, men and women, conquerors and caregivers...
@zawisza do you assume that you have a monopoly to define what is sin, what is beautiful, and what is not?
What about Stephen Hawking who was mentally very strong but physically ill, how can you categorize that?
As you see - things are highly context-dependent. Left and right are both hands of our society. Right prevails when there is a danger/fear. Left prevails when there is a need for a change/relaxation of something. We need both, neither is better.
BTW Evola's views are outdated and also biased.
Adam Smith invented capitalism to serve communities better and it was strongly connected to Christian morality.
Exploitative neoliberalism introduced by Milton Friedman postponed some wars but exploited and corrupted the system from the inside...Panta rhei... | Liberté 🏴 | It depends... ;-)
A little Learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
~Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism -
@Norwegian-Mugabe said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
- The politcal right is more focused on health and eugenics.
Some people on the right may talk about eugenics but they've done nothing to further it, only the left is actually doing it. They're transgendering/gaying/vaxxing lowly people out of the gene pool, encouraging abortion in low income communities, providing "assisted suicide" to degenerate drug addicts and mentally ill people, etc. And to top it off they've figured out how to make these people love their own extinction. It's genius.
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The left is pro-migration, and pro-redistrubtion of wealth from good people to bad people. Auslander raus.
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@greg based
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@buckminster said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
@Aryan_Racist It is possible to be a leftist and want to be left alone. I'm one of them. There is a strong individualist left-wing tradition. If you want to be left alone, don't you think others want that and deserve it too? Because your profile pic represents the opposite- fear, hate, and hostility. Empathy is achieved from an excess of energy. As that energy expands it extends beyond the individual, forming a perspective of our shared humanity. And what is good for me is good or you, because we are all interconnected.
Yes I want to be left alone and to never have to deal with Jewish tricks and N1ggers and Brown people ever again unless I go to their countries. I hate having to literally thank Niggers at work because it's black history month, accept trannies dancing in front of children, and paying half of my salary so some sheboon who hates me and can't figure out how to change the batteries on their smoke alarms.
What type of "left" do you support that doesn't involve me participating in forced negrolatry struggle sessions to keep my job, allowing my child to be groomed, allowing the state to take half my money to support niggers who can't read and act feral, OR do you support "the old left" which is literally just enslavement to a politburo or "committee" composed of idiots who can't mind their own business. Leftism is the enslavement of the strong and healthy to the weak and sickly of both mind and body.
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@zawisza said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
(The overtone window was not shifted by the right, but by the left (mostly around 2016) by calling everyone not drinking starbuck soy a nazi.)
masz racje zgadzam sie, stary (widze ze masz polskie nazwisko jako username) nienawidze lewicow czyli wspieram ¡TOTAL LEFTIST DEATH!
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@Kvirion Steven Hawking was obviously not even cognizant, someone was writing his stuff for him. People with ALS lose the ability to think after like 1 year. Someone was using him as a mouthpiece, similar to how Edward de Vere wrote all of Shakespeare work for him.
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@Aryan_Racist very interesting conspiracy
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@Aryan_Racist Wow you really have fallen for every psyop in the strategy of tension.
It's pretty amazing that almost every time fash try to articulate their perspective they reveal there is no substance other than hate. And their ideology is just the vehicle to express the hate inside them. It's sad. It's anti-metabolic, high stress hormones, scarcity-mindset. It's also just bad vibes, for themselves and the world - even spreading it on a site that is dedicated to such a loving and empathetic person as ray peat. The fash ideology attracts hateful people. Folks wanna fluff it up with their esoteric evola'ism, but hate is its root, and for many that is its allure. Someone earlier mentioned they were opposed to evil, but I can't think of anything more evil than spreading hate and fear. I wish everyone whatever kind of heart chakra expansion is required to snap them out of the hate psycosis. I don't think its about right-left ideology. Its some sort of deeper spiritual sickness.
"People need to start understanding that the system is systematically murdering them, and understanding that the situation is desperate, they need to see that solidarity with life, against capital, is their hope." RP
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@buckminster so I should engage in meditation to become okay with trannies around my kids, paying my salary to 80IQ sheboons, and paying 2x my rent to Juan the illegal 5'2" guat? Why? You're telling me that not wanting this is hateful?
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To answer the original question "why is the ray peat community so far right?"
I think what your getting at is why has it attracted so many neo nazis and fascists. That is a question many peaters wrestle with. Because in many ways it makes zero sense. When you read rays work, he makes some of the best critiques of racism, eugenics, genetics, and fascism. The philosophy is so antithetical to Ray's work, that it boggles the mind how anyone can think these communities are remotely compatible.
The obvious answer is bap. Even though Ray had been steadily working for many decades prior, bap was one of the first people with a cult-like following to promote his work- bringing in an army of his loyal fans.
I think the more sinister explanation is it's a psyop campaign to discredit ray and destroy his work and legacy.
"John Ioannidis’ article 'Why most research findings are false' is worth reading. Things discussed on 'forums' aren’t. Ordinary corporate advertising has been supplemented by the much more economical practice of hiring product reviewers to slander competing products, joining multiple forums with their 'unhappy experiences.'" RP (2021)
At this point I'm pretty convinced at least some amount of the hate fueled posters are paid for my some firm in the pharmaceutical industry. Likely some poorly paid bot farm in a 3rd world country. In the history of cointelpro operations, this would be pretty affordable and effective. Half the time when engaging with these folks they have obviously not even read rays work.
"People need to start understanding that the system is systematically murdering them, and understanding that the situation is desperate, they need to see that solidarity with life, against capital, is their hope." RP
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Even if someone was fash, why would they engage in a community celebrating and sharing the work of ray peat in this fashion? (hateful profile pics and names) - these are low vibrational energies that spread hate and fear. It is associating the work of ray peat with something antithetical to him. Now when ray's work is reported, he's regularly discredited by the reporter associating him with nazis. Some folks are trying to turn the community into a stormfront forum- this destroys engagement. Folks don't want to participate, it excludes massive sections of humanity that ray's work could reach. It is such an insult to a man people claim to respect and love, that its hard to not consider an ulterior motive. If it's not a deliberate psyop, it functions as one.
"People need to start understanding that the system is systematically murdering them, and understanding that the situation is desperate, they need to see that solidarity with life, against capital, is their hope." RP
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@buckminster if a swasticka pfp scares you then you need to be taking more aspirin and k2, this is a free speech forum
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@buckminster if a swastika pfp scares u then u need to be taking more aspirin, this is a free speech forum
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@Kvirion said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
a whole (Gaussian) spectrum of political views is needed to keep the system healthy.
@Kvirion said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:
“Selfishness beats altruism within groups. Altruistic groups beat selfish groups. Everything else is commentary.” ― David Sloan Wilson, Edward O. Wilson
Interesting commentary. As you say, context dependence plays a very big role. Also, some amount of irreducible complexity that defies broad and sweeping solutions is inherent in all human systems.
If social sciences hadn't devolved into meaningless noise we could have a much stronger empirical understanding of the best ways to organize human groups. The work of Weber comes to mind.
