Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?

strongman

@buckminster said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

To answer the original question "why is the ray peat community so far right?"

I think what your getting at is why has it attracted so many neo nazis and fascists. That is a question many peaters wrestle with. Because in many ways it makes zero sense. When you read rays work, he makes some of the best critiques of racism, eugenics, genetics, and fascism. The philosophy is so antithetical to Ray's work, that it boggles the mind how anyone can think these communities are remotely compatible.

The obvious answer is bap. Even though Ray had been steadily working for many decades prior, bap was one of the first people with a cult-like following to promote his work- bringing in an army of his loyal fans.

I think the more sinister explanation is it's a psyop campaign to discredit ray and destroy his work and legacy.

"John Ioannidis’ article 'Why most research findings are false' is worth reading. Things discussed on 'forums' aren’t. Ordinary corporate advertising has been supplemented by the much more economical practice of hiring product reviewers to slander competing products, joining multiple forums with their 'unhappy experiences.'" RP (2021)

At this point I'm pretty convinced at least some amount of the hate fueled posters are paid for my some firm in the pharmaceutical industry. Likely some poorly paid bot farm in a 3rd world country. In the history of cointelpro operations, this would be pretty affordable and effective. Half the time when engaging with these folks they have obviously not even read rays work.

they are shitty critiques as per usual. however, you're 100% right that it's entirely incompatible as Ray Peat is a marxist, materialist, anarcho-communist, ... he thinks genes are essentially irrelevant and in doing so ignores 100 years of research on behavioural genetics. the few comments he made about such things as twin studies were petty and cringe. a look at himself and his followers provides you all you need to know regarding the veracity of his claims

CO3

@Aryan_Racist

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Here you have your answer; Robinsonades by deranged FREAKS of Dr. Peat's work.

You could have asked in 1930's Germany "Why are these socialists so right-wing?". The answer would have been simple: they aren't socialists.

This is why you see these grievous vitiations of Ray's work particularly from reactionaries (e.g.that moron 'Charlie')There is no understanding of the underlying, materialist theory.

Ray had a very particular attitude to the interest by reactionaries in his work. I would have to find the specific quote and I can't, so forgive me the, possibly incorrect, paraphrasing but the essence is this:

They might believe the Jews or whoever are poisoning them, and you can redirect this and make them understand that it's the corporations that are poisoning everyone, and increase their political awareness this way.

The implication here clearly being that they're poorly oriented initially. He has another quote lamenting the horrible state of leftists (I agree) when mentioning only reactionaries showed up to his lectures saying something like " At least they care about their own race's health".

This gets to the essence of the matter. A full quote this time:

*Q: "What does Ray think of Marx's scientific method and social revolution?"

A: "Several Christians and capitalists have said Marx's science was very useful. For example, Nelson Rockefeller said he understood Marx as well as the leftist reporters he was talking to, but he used Marx's ideas to increase his power and wealth. That's the nature of a science. Anyone can use it to do what they want to for good or bad purposes. But where Marx got his ethical orientation was right out of Christianity. Christian communism and Christian socialism had been going on almost 2,000 years when Marx created a scientific understanding of why society is built the way it is. But the way you use that scientific understanding, Rockefeller knew it could be good for him to understand society that way. "*

Ray's work is so radical and important that as always the reactionaries have to appropriate it for a twofold reason;

They are intellectually stagnant, and desperate for anything to appropriate as its own, even when it explicitly disagrees with their most basic assumptions about reality (cfr. all the threads on here 'Why Ray was wrong about Race and IQ' etc etc)
It is CORRECT, so if you want to progress in any way you can't help but accept it.

I used to be a fascists because I had no politicsal understanding and my horrible physical state was inclining me towards the realistic anxiety of losing socio-economic status and the resulting hatred of the factors i was mistakenly ascribing it to.

The whitepill here is that through their understanding of dialectics the elite has been trying to transform society to be, on its face, classless ( of course this is all a ruse), and this has resulted in reactionary politics being merged with genuinely accurate analyses of reality (e.g. the 'Pandemic', 9/11 etc etc), so that moving forward we absolutely don't have the same luxury of not interacting with many people that under different circumstances would be class enemies, especially in light of Peat's work showing we have the ability of reorient these people.

Anyway read Mind and Tissue!

CO3

@buckminster I have good reason to assume BAP has never read Dr. Peat at all, and this leads me to think the paragraph in his book is plagiarized or ghost-written. He was in my mentions saing 'muh weston a price' on the topic of PUFA and never do any of his words indicate he genuinely thought Ray's work on hormones was 'getting to the essence of reality' as his book states.

Kvirion

@BioS said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

Interesting commentary. As you say, context dependence plays a very big role. Also, some amount of irreducible complexity that defies broad and sweeping solutions is inherent in all human systems.

Yep, therefore, I prefer to listen much more to evolutionary biologists (natural sciences) than to social ones.
Besides Miguel Delanda (Assemblage Theory) and Bruno Latour (Actor-Network Theory, RIP), which works are pretty decent, exploratory, and insightful

If social sciences hadn't devolved into meaningless noise we could have a much stronger empirical understanding of the best ways to organize human groups. The work of Weber comes to mind.

Amen

BTW the current neo-materialistic philosophical movement looks pretty interesting/promising...

Kvirion

@CO3 said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

They might believe the Jews or whoever are poisoning them, and you can redirect this and make them understand that it's the corporations that are poisoning everyone, and increase their political awareness this way.

Yes, it's pretty funny/scary, that it has been exactly (right-wing, corporate, WEF) neoliberals, who dismantled most of the social safety checks and safety nets. They also supported increased emigration to lower their labor cost, etc. However, they convinced the masses that the left was/is to blame for this...

peatyourmeat

mostly because the radical left anarchist and hippie types who would have been into this got too into the transgender thing which forces them to the side of big medicine

Kvirion

@peatyourmeat said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

mostly because the radical left anarchist and hippie types who would have been into this got too into the transgender thing which forces them to the side of big medicine

Yep, they focus on smoke and mirrors...

CO3

@peatyourmeat yeah and most 'right wingers' love watching Tucker Carlson and think the WEF Milei is our savio. Oh wait! I forgot. That applies to the 'dissidents' lmao

Love_The_Blacks

@CO3 this is anti-semitic. erase this.

Aryan_Racist

@Love_The_Blacks lol

Peatly

@buckminster said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

"First, a person who is chronically sick and malnourished just doesn't have much energy or stamina to study and be critical. So first, you just have to stop poisoning yourself by eating what the government and dietitians
are selling as a healthful diet, and once you have the strength to read and think, then you realize who is doing what to you, and you start investigating the food industry, the agricultural production industry, the science industry that supports the agricultural imposition, and the political system that justifies the medical and agricultural economic imposition. All of these are very clearly wound together in a system to maintain class dominance. It started in the 1930s depression with the government having a three-tiered diet. One to prevent starvation in the very poor, one an economical diet to get along on very little, and then at the top a healthy diet."
-Ray Peat

Thank you for posting. I’ve been looking for this quote for a while. There was a thread on the RPF – but all I could recall was “who is doing what to you.” My search was futile when I last looked a few weeks ago. I have now located the 2016 interview. We owe a lot of gratitude to Danny Roddy for teasing out such gems from Dr. Peat.

You are right, his work is not just about understanding the biological aspect of the organism but also understanding the wider political environment. I believe medical tyranny is not just about pharmaceutical greed but part of a wider political system of control and depopulation. During the plandemic lockdown I listened to a lot of Dr Peat’s interviews. I read the Kessinger report of 1974 at that time too and concluded that you cannot ascribe to incompetence what is clearly malice. This was a eugenics policy designed to keep developing countries from prospering so that they can be exploited and depopulated. The mass movement of people away from those countries is no surprise. If a country cannot develop and look after its people then the people will seek employment elsewhere. I digress. Since learning how the powers that be play all sides to service the interests of corporations, and the families that own them, I no longer believe in the left vs. right paradigm (not that anyone can give a satisfactory definition of either positions).

Here is the full transcript of that section of the interview.

Danny Roddy: Obviously you focus a lot on food. Do you think that's a way in to shift the consciousness of the people towards lower serotonin if that relates to somebody's authoritarianism?

Ray Peat: Yeah, first a person who is chronically sick and malnourished just doesn't have much energy or stamina to study and be critical. So first you just have to stop poisoning yourself by eating what the government and dieticians are selling as a healthful diet. And once you have the strength to read and think, then you realize who is doing what to you. And you start investigating the food industry, the agricultural production industry, the science industry that supports the agricultural imposition, and the political system that justifies the medical and agricultural economic imposition. All of these are very clearly wound together in a system to maintain class dominance. It's very healthful to eat lobster once in a while, but you don't see dieticians or the government recommending that. It started in the 1930s depression with the government having a three-tiered diet. One to prevent starvation in the very poor, one an economical diet to get along on very little, and then at the top a healthy diet. And if you look at the bare survival and economic minimal diet of the Great Depression, the dieticians in the 1960s and 70s adopted those survival diets as the healthy diet. Lots of beans and grains as the basic diet.

Danny Roddy: Do you think that was on purpose in a form of control?

Ray Peat: Yeah, part of it was that the government had been buying milk, dehydrating it, making cheese and butter to keep American farmers working to support the prices. So they were warehousing huge amounts of powdered milk, cheese, and butter, and giving them away first as foreign aid, and then the precursor to food stamps was to have, I think, every month, a giveaway to poor people of cheese, eggs, powdered milk, and so on. And in the 70s, there was a big movement to stop helping the poor people in other countries, as well as the poor at home. And one of the arguments that came up in the pseudoscientific dietetic community was that people outside the United States hardly ever can tolerate lactose, so you should stop giving them powdered milk. And that argument against people, only certain white people can tolerate lactose, that was heavily promoted as a racist change of foreign policy against foreign aid and food aid in general. Sending them beans was okay, except we didn't need to support the price of American beans that way.

Danny Roddy: Do you think this tendency to be authoritarian, or as Altameyer would have said, right-wing authoritarian, even though it's a semi-confusing term, do you personally see it more in Americans versus other places? I know you've mentioned Mexico as a different type of environment and being a little more cheerful. Do you think that's largely because of the history of the U.S. and how things got flushed out?

Ray Peat: A lot of it is the specific policy choices of the government and corporations indoctrinating Americans in a certain way. And one of my main criticisms of Bob Altameyer is that he has focused on the right-wing authoritarianism, and it would be okay to call it right-wing if you define right in the sense of the fascism that Winston Churchill and FDR subscribed to. Americans generally think of FDR as an extreme leftist president, but definitely his admiration for Mussolini says there was no leftism at all. He said what he was doing was saving his class, saving the ruling class, because there was such a threat of revolution in the United States. So he was saving capitalism, and that would, I think, fit in as, you could say, modified fascism. It was an inventive way of keeping the corporations lightly out of sight, letting them buy the various regulatory agencies, but keeping them out of the executive for their own good. He was fixing the economy with Keynesian economics, which the people who organized a coup in 1933 to get him out, they considered even the borrowing and spending to be a communist plot of government. They wanted to get Roosevelt out, but what he was doing was using finance to prevent revolution. And immediately the Dulleses, when it came out that Alan Dulles was working closely with the Nazis at the end of World War II, Stalin informed Roosevelt that his spies were aware that Dulles was collaborating with the Nazis, and Roosevelt, his comments suggested that he thought maybe Stalin had gone crazy to tell him such a thing. But within two or three days, Roosevelt surely would have found out that Stalin was right, and that would have put Dulles in line for the war crimes trials. But luckily for Dulles, right at that moment, Roosevelt chose to die, saving Dulles from criminal treason prosecution. And the powers in the Democratic Party who had connections both with Adolf Hitler and with the DuPont gang that had organized the 1933 coup attempt, they were in charge of the big city Democratic Power Party machine. And they knew that Harry Truman had expressed himself many times as wanting Hitler to go fight the Soviets. And since that was the preferred American policy, they had installed him as vice president in 1944. And so Roosevelt's death in '45 not only saved Dulles, but it put Truman in position to continue the pro-Nazi policy. I have a project paperclip where the top Germans were not only helped move to Argentina and adjoining countries, but a lot of them were brought to the US, the scientists in particular.

End of interview transcript

Meanwhile – the powers that be are pushing the idea of the rise of the far right and constructing a narrative which will come in handy when they need the next patsy for the next false flag.

Norwegian Mugabe

I am on the top-right corner of the political spectrum.

Love_The_Blacks

@Peatly I genuinely cannot wait for when we inevitably win so we can just deport all the leftists and their orcs back to Mordor (the third world).

This society where we uphold the sick, broke, resentful, weak, old and COWARDLY to the detriment of the STRONG and BEAUTIFUL cannot end soon enough.

I don't like paying half of my paycheck so that Shaniqua can get her gibs

Kvirion

@Norwegian-Mugabe said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

I am on the top-right corner of the political spectrum.

Yeah, there are some people with extreme (dialectical, contextual, scientific) wisdom following the epistemic uncertainty principle and there are others with extremely strong (political) convictions...

And obviously, there are most of the people in between with a mix of both aforementioned attitudes.

CO3

@Peatly said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

Since learning how the powers that be play all sides to service the interests of corporations, and the families that own them, I no longer believe in the left vs. right paradigm (not that anyone can give a satisfactory definition of either positions).

Ray gives an explanation how FDR was just protecting his class by punishing the billionaires of the country slightly, to suppress the inevitable CLASS revolution and then got murdered by the Nazi founder of the CIA and what you come away with is 'political distinctions don't exist'. Interesting, It seems more like there exist benevolent Marxists and malevolent ones, but they all adhere to reality as accurately described by Marx. When you quote such a thing keep in mind Ray's own poltical position.

Right-wing politics have never existed. they don't have theory, they don't believe anything and are, for the most part, very stupid. Left-wing politics has a bunch of theory, a lot of it derivative or reactionary but it is Marx, Engels and Lenin who are the foundation of a genuinely revolutionary position (aka left wing politics, the idea of changing something, a term stemming from the french revolution). Two people Ray looked up to, for good reason.

Saying 'you don't believe in left or right' is sort of a meaningless phrase unless, like Ray, you're a genuine Marxist that supported the zenith of the USSR under Stalin, then I get why you would say it, although even then I think Ray was a tiny bit misguided in saying it (you won't hear me say this a lot)

Anyway not to dismiss your contribution.

btw how funny is it that all the supposedly 'right-wing' Yank retatrds in the thread are too scared to even say anything except 'peee pee poo poo'. mentally underdeveloped

Peatly

@Love_The_Blacks said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

@Peatly I genuinely cannot wait for when we inevitably win so we can just deport all the leftists and their orcs back to Mordor (the third world).

This society where we uphold the sick, broke, resentful, weak, old and COWARDLY to the detriment of the STRONG and BEAUTIFUL cannot end soon enough.

I don't like paying half of my paycheck so that Shaniqua can get her gibs

Interesting – what exactly are you winning?

Peatly

@CO3 I don’t base my statement on anything Ray said – my position is one of realising (during the plandemic) that it doesn’t matter which political party you vote for the outcome is likely to be the same. Perhaps years ago there was some distinction between the left and the right – that has changed. All the culture wars are designed to keep us fighting amongst ourselves. Ultimately, their goal is towards one world governance.

Love_The_Blacks

@Peatly by attaining power and within a fortnight bringing things back to the way nature intended them to be.

The right is Bukele cleaning up El Salvador in 1 month and being beloved by his people.

The Left is Stalin exterminating entire classes of people hoping that a utopia would henceforth be ushered in.

Leftists need theory and endless mental masturbation to cope with and explain away why they keep fucking everything up in horrible and novel ways no one ever thought possible outside a science fiction novel.

Before you bring up the holocaust and ascribe the gas chamber as the inevitable and logical end-state of "reactionary politics" think about what type of politics opened up pandora's box by trying to literally eliminate entire classes and groups of people first. (It was the Left!)

Peatly

@Love_The_Blacks said in Why is the Ray Peat community so far right?:

The same Nayib Bukele, one of the young global leaders of the WEF?

Love_The_Blacks

@Peatly I'm not a neurotic conspiracy brained peasant who sees messages in his soup. I could care less if our president was a Jewish WEF chairman as long as he deported all the migrants and got our country back on track.