moggy chicken log
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@alfredoolivas I'd never call you a vegan!
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Which part? That bread could raise estrogen? Because estrogen and HGH have been proven to retain water. Estrogen and HGH can increase capillary permeability. if bread is slowing gut motility and feeding bacteria, it can raise endotoxin, which does increase estrogen -- this is a case by case basis of course.
Yeah but there is ZERO proof that bread raises these things. You are piecing isolated claims together, and claiming a few pieces of bread does this, and then because of these changesto the body, estrogen and HGH rise?
It is pure theory.China consumes 11g per day (and they're smaller).
Google:
Edema Trigger / Condition All-Cause Lower Limb Edema (General prevalence in older adults)
19.0% – 20.0% of the US population.
~8.4% – 9.5% of the Chinese population.These guys eat plenty of bread.
but contributes to metabolic conditions that contribute to capillary leakiness and cell wall weakness
Sodium activates aldose reductase too. I think high carb diets / being insulin resistant leads there to be aldose reductase to be elevated too. When you add salt it can worsen things. Back in the time, people were a lot more insulin sensitive and thus could deal with this. But now, not so much. Shown by world wide research.
I really can't understand how you throw away the shared expierence of millions (realisitcally if you tallied millions of people), and a centuries worth of research, by unconnected authors, globally, for a Ray Peat quote lol.
It's pretty clear, looking at studies and a globally shared experience, that it causes odema in excess (which is what you suggest the intake should be) whilst being anti stress.
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“You don't think there is a cumulative effect to consuming thousands of milligrams of vit A, D, E, K, zinc, copper, cholesterol, etc, over the course of a year?“
You can eat tastier foods and get all the odd things lol. Without triggering a PUFA phobia
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“You don't think there is a cumulative effect to consuming thousands of milligrams of vit A, D, E, K, zinc, copper, cholesterol, etc, over the course of a year?“
You can eat tastier foods and get all the odd things lol. Without triggering a PUFA phobia
I don't understand what you mean, of course this was in reference to the general more nutrient dense foods, not just eggs. I should've clarified: I believe in the Peat trifecta of eggs/shellfish/liver.
I believe that over the course of months and years, the level of nutrients consumed by eating these things weekly (I eat them daily + thyroid), will have a positive effect on any number of metabolic events in the body.
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@alfredoolivas said:
Yeah but there is ZERO proof that bread raises these things. You are piecing isolated claims together, and claiming a few pieces of bread...
It is pure theory.These guys eat plenty of bread.
Bread was just an example of things that can cause issues. I also eat a clean bread (well before I started a fruit diet).
but contributes to metabolic conditions that contribute to capillary leakiness and cell wall weakness
Sodium activates aldose reductase too. I think high carb diets / being insulin resistant leads there to be aldose reductase to be elevated too. When you add salt it can worsen things. Back in the time, people were a lot more insulin sensitive and thus could deal with this. But now, not so much. Shown by world wide research.
Sounds reasonable
I really can't understand how you throw away the shared expierence of millions (realisitcally if you tallied millions of people), and a centuries worth of research, by unconnected authors, globally, for a Ray Peat quote lol.
It's pretty clear, looking at studies and a globally shared experience, that it causes odema in excess (which is what you suggest the intake should be) whilst being anti stress.
I don't think I throw it away, I just look for context. One of my fave quotes by Peat was something like "everything in context" which is more of a law of wisdom than a pithy quote.
Contextually, edema was found in far higher levels amongst urban centers and sailors in the 1600-1800s. Here's the first context clue -- leading me to ask, why?
Google AI:
"Yes, historically, edema (historically referred to as "dropsy") was significantly worse and far more prevalent in sailors than in the general civilian population.During the Age of Sail (roughly the 16th through the 19th centuries), sailors suffered from severe, widespread edema at catastrophic rates.""The 17th and 18th Centuries (Peak Diagnosis Era)The diagnosis of dropsy [edema] peaked significantly in urban Europe during the 1600s and 1700s. As populations flooded into crowded, poorly sanitized European cities, cases of organ failure and severe malnutrition spiked. In cities like London, dropsy routinely topped the official "Bills of Mortality" (public death records), accounting for hundreds of urban deaths every year. It affected everyone from the impoverished to royalty—for instance, historical records show British monarchs like Queen Elizabeth I suffered from bouts of it."
"Nitrates (in the form of saltpeter, or potassium nitrate) became universally included alongside salt for meat curing in Europe between 1600 and 1750, most likely around 1700."
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@LetTheRedeemed now ask Gemini the average salt intake during that time!
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@alfredoolivas are you referencing higher sodium consumption in the late medieval/early modern period of 1600-1700s? unusually high numbers like daily 40 grams, and daily 100 grams in Sweden, are because of people using consumption data of salt, but that's innacurate, because it takes a whole nation's sodium import, when the vast majority was used for preservation, and not consumed. It's probably impossible to consume much more than 12 grams of salt a day for an extended period, and I even question the 18 grams numbers thrown around about 1800s Western nations, because China has the same economic number of total consumption per person, but then at the individual eating level it's something like 10 grams on avg.
What makes china cool, is they didn't really undergo an industrial-liberal health and food revolution like America did, so they're probably eating more consistently according to what the avg agrarian society ate for thousands of years (meat in every form, offal, grain, salt to taste, sugar to taste, seasonal fruits, boiled veg, etc).
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@LetTheRedeemed appreciate the honest debate bro
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@alfredoolivas idk where we landed but I enjoy it
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@alfredoolivas wondering about the fat dissolver pine bottle stuff. Does the fat that gets dissolved really become FFAs or is there something else happening? I'm itching to try it but it seems like there is some big catch.
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@engineer you are injecting a cytotoxic compound that is very lipophilic, so it has affinity for fat tissue vs normal tissue. Then the fat cells die, and the body deals with it via swelling etc. eventually it flushes away
it’s very good at spot fat reduction. So it won’t raise your FFA, because basically…. They Don’t work that well lol. You’d be destroying very little fat tissue each time. At most an ounce of a really fatty area over a couple months. Again, for areas like the face, this spot fat reduction can be very noticeable. But it won’t slim down your face like natural fat loss AT ALL.
And no, it won’t reduce aromatase meaningfully at all, because you’d be only losing a tiny tiny fraction of bodyfat.
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