B6 toxicity solved with B5

sunsunsun

Know someone taking 100-200mg b6 as p5p per day, they assumed it doesn't have neuropathy potential as the other form of b6. They were also taking 1 cap of 450mg pantethine b5 with the b6 and no issues. They stopped the b5 and within a week they developed inability to stand on toes, numbness in feet, foot drop, difficulty walking. I got them to drop the b6 entirely and megadose pantethine 4x caps a day and within hours neuropathy was going away.

I learned this from Chris Masterjohn's article where he explains it has to do with CoA and if you are taking b6 it is a good idea to take b5.

LucH

@sunsunsun said:

I learned this from Chris Masterjohn's article where he explains it has to do with CoA and if you are taking b6 it is a good idea to take b5.

Well seen. Thanks for pointing this limit out. I've made some research to try to get more info about the process.
I'll write an article what to care for and how much pantothenic acid (B5) is required when taking HD PLP (B6)
And yes some people have brain trouble when taking more than 20-25 B6 PLP form. Probably because there is cystein excess (in relation with CoA).
I'll try to make it clearer:
Need a high dose of B5 to support the Coenzyme A synthesis pathway, managing excess cysteine without depleting the nerve cell's energy, said my source.
Not clear enough so.
I'll came back with a link and details.

sunsunsun

@LucH https://we.tl/t-Hbh4C5ifxvEPJVGH

pdf explaining it
file hosting expires in 72hrs

LucH

@sunsunsun said:

pdf explaining it

Thanks for sharing.
A lot of work in perspective (25 pages)

BioEclectic

Good one OP and thanks for that important nuance about both forms of B6. I try to keep an eye peeled for B6 info.

I have nothing to back the following up but i once read someone discussing another potential B6 pyridoxine pitfall, that long term use can cause the gluteals and back leg muscles to atrophy and sag. No study was noted nor was the dose or protocol discussed. Hearsay but something i may follow up on.

LucH

@BioEclectic said:

B6 pyridoxine pitfall

PNP is toxic when taking HD. (...)

BioEclectic

@LucH said:

@BioEclectic said:

B6 pyridoxine pitfall

PNP is toxic when taking HD. (...)

That part is understood, hence the cautions we apply; lower doses, occasional abstentions and substitutions with P5P etc. And of course it isn't all bad with PNP being rather therapeutic for certain conditions with the right protocol. The addition of B5 is intriguing in this context.