What to do about histamine intolerance?

[Sugar]

My histamine tolerance seems to be just getting worse, I'll get a headache if I eat too much aged cheese, yogurt, etc. I even had my throat swell up after eating whey protein last week and I could barely breathe. I've tried beef kidney powder but it didn't do much for me, the serving size is probably not enough to make a difference.

This all started from me taking too much nicotinic acid (flush niacin) and NAC which I'm sure really depleted my copper levels. What do you guys think can help me get back to normal?

[CO3]

@Sugar an anti-histamine maybe??

[Sugar]

@CO3 What a joke. Just any anti histamine you can pick up at Walgreens? I'm just gonna assume you meant Cyproheptadine and thank you, though I would like to get to the root cause.

[CO3]

@Sugar i mean you flooded your system with histamine using that niacin (fdor whatever reason), you developed a sensitivity to it using isolated lab-made compounds. using a anti-histamine isn't crazy.

[Mulloch94]

Just stop taking the niacin and eat more foods with an emphasis on copper. Shrimp, calf liver, cocoa, etc.

[Sugar]

@Mulloch94 I already stopped a while ago, definitely gonna focus on copper heavy foods.

[Evolutionarily]

Why did you take so much niacin and NAC? Are you sure the casual relationship is as simple as you think?

[A Former User]

I had similar things while taking niacin. Also similar story with lowered copper but that was from another thing

I would say get the animal organ as fresh as possible or it doesnt have an effect i think the minerals leech out with the juices if you leave it too long and the juices 'let go', if i buy it fresh and it smells of grass still it makes me feel awesome but if its old and pale its whatever

[onliest]

liver, shilijat, T3, and yes our beloved cypro

[the MOUSE]

@Sugar could be related to sibo and alleviated by treating that

[LucH]

@Sugar said in What to do about histamine intolerance?:

What do you guys think can help me get back to normal?

Hi,
Some time will be needed to evacuate metabolites when taking High Dose Niacin.
Never above 20-25 mg B3 if not niacinamide.
When taking B3, we need B6. Not necessarily at the same time.
I would take a 50 B complex co-enymed 2x/wk. interaction.
Here is some info How I dealt with histamine intolerance due to overgrowth bacteria, flatulences and gas.
Histamine intolerance – Chris Masterjohn Lite.
The English corner: Fix the gut – 7 steps to cure histamine intolerance
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2028-the-english-corner-fix-the-gut#29578
https://youtu.be/sv70d1OVXHs (copy the link and put in a search internet motor)
Excerpt (video of Chris Masterjohn, under-titled) (With benchmarks at the 7 stages)

1. Video 47’’: Support you own endogenous production of DAO,
   DAO is supposed to clear off all the histamine from food.
   DAO = de-amine oxidase = enzyme able to degrade produced histamine.
   Be sure to get enough of vitamin C B6 (P5P) and coper.
2. Video 1.48”: Supplement with DAO enzyme: kidney, liver worst, kidney supplement (= DAO supplement)
3. Video 2.49”: Support your methylation (=> e.g. with TMG supplement)
4. Video 3.37”: Mast cell control.
   Mind lack of Se and retinol (vit A).
   Mind inflammation (see medical doctor to handle the problem). Some molecules are prohibited (histamine producer and liberator).
5. Video 4.27”: Histamine from your diet
   Mind the most offended food: aged, fermented or preserved food.
   Examples of food high in histamine: semi- and hard cheese, canned anchovies, smoked fish, deli meat, curry, mustard, soy sauce, yeast, avocado, banana, dried food, dried nuts, lemon, mandarin, and pineapple.
   NDLR: These are only some most common examples, of food containing histamine (H). Some food cause the release (R) of histamine when they don't really contain it.
   If you eat these foods you can’t get rid of intolerance, you can’t get cured: you’re only managing the intolerance (the excessive reaction of mast cells).
   After healing, you may reintroduce some banned foods and see how you tolerate a slight amount of them.
6. Video 5.55’’: Alcohol and other drugs
   Alcohol and some drugs interfere with histamine clearance. A sweet spot of alcohol can be tolerated 3 times a week. Many medications are concerned. See listing.
7. Video 6.48’’: Fix the gut.
   If inflamed, there could be a poor production of DAO enzyme, a mast cell burning and a microbiome dysbiosis.
   To be continued on next post.

[LucH]

Info continuation
Main points in practice

1. Support you own endogenous production of DAO with useful nutrients. ## Be sure to get enough of vitamin C B6 (P5P) and coper.
   Pay attention:

• Not a vitamin B complex. 50 mg B6 is OK. B6 must be co-enzymed (P5P), without additive preferably.
  • Swanson, P-5-P-pyridoxal-5-phosphate, 20 mg, 60 capsules. 3.51 € iherb.com, 0.18 €/gel.
  =>Advised choice for dosage if neuronal pathology (hypersensitivity). 1x/d.
  Pay attention: Too much of a good thing is bad. ## There is a threshold not to overload with B6 PLP, depending on your underlying degree of low grade inflammation and neuro-pathologies. pauses are required with PLP (effective form).
  • Thorne, Pyridoxal 5'-phosphate, 180 capsules. 33.8 mg. With dioxide Si. 47.28 € - 10% by iherb..com, 0.263 €/gel.
  • Nutrabio 100 mg, 60 capsules. 14.72 €, 0.25 €/ gel. My choice because without excipient. 1x/ every other day (every two days).
• Chelated Coper (bisglycinate coper 10-15 mg, twice a day if suffering from dysbiosis).
• Vitamin C must be identified with CAS N° 50-81-7 (or with Specific Optical Rotation, between +20.5°~+21.5°) (without HM => certificate). Otherwise it’s half not assimilated (rubbish). Mine comes from Scotland, organic source (not from China). Labelled acid ascorbic quali-c (nutrimuscle.com 125 gr 22.95 €). Surfine powdered vitamin so that it dimots well, without residue.

• Magnesium bisglycinate (mind the origin: well diluted and taste) we lack Mg.

2. DAO enzyme. 1 000 000 units.
   I take NaturDAO 10-15’ before meal 3x/d. Gradually stop treatment (amazon.fr)
   I won’t eat liver more than once every 5 days. And from organic source or from poultry (young chicken).
3. Support your methylation: For example with betaïne HCL (Now Food, with pepsin) or with TMG supplement (Now Food, TMG 1000 mg or 2x 500 mg). I take TMG (tri-methyl-glycine) 2250 mg from Super Smart (with a 30 % discount). No need to be so high.
   NDLR: Chris Masterjohn has recommended TMG when taking B3 (niacin).
   What is the difference between betaine HCl and trimethylglycine?
   Betaine HCl has an acidic taste whereas anhydrous TMG ("anhydrous betaine") tastes sweet with a metallic aftertaste and is usually produced from sugar beets (as is betaine hydrochloride). Both are active as methyl donors, as 'betaine' is retained in both forms.
4. Mast cell control
   I take quercetin anhydride 500 mg (nutrixeal.com) once a day. With a meal because some fat is required. In cure. Or every other week (every two weeks).
   Mind some foods:
   We should not only worry about foods that contain large quantity histamine (H3 in the PDF list), but also foods that release histamine (L3 in the PDF list, in French) (L stands for liberation). For example, tuna is classified H3 (high contribution), the orange fruit is L3 (leads to a high reaction of histamine release).
5. Histamine Diet
   See PDF list.
   Useful info (in French)
   https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1745-traiter-lintolerance-a-lhistamine?highlight=histamine
   => How to deal with histamine intolerance + short list of food high in histamine.
   See beneath for an English source.
   L3 (power 3/3) (L stand for liberator => set free)
   Walnut, lemon (lime), orange, grapefruit, wine and balsamic vinegar, alcohol, iodine. Other examples on this link (list of incompatibility for histamine, in French):
   Noix, citron vert (lime), orange, pamplemousse, vinaigre de vin et balsamique, alcool, iode.
   Autres exemples sur ce lien (Liste d’incompatibilité à l’histamine) :
   https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/31_FoodList_FR_alphab_avecCat.pdf
   It is not because a food brings little histamine that he does not cause a release of histamine. So be careful not to be based only on a single info source. It is above all the accumulation that must be avoided, and be careful in more sensitive times, of course.
   Traduction : Ce n’est pas parce qu’un aliment apporte peu d’histamine qu’il n’entraine pas une libération d’histamine. Donc, attention à ne pas se baser seulement sur une seule source d’info. C’est surtout le cumul qu’il faut éviter, et faire attention en période plus sensible, évidemment.
6. Alcohol and other drugs
   Alcohol overburdens liver detox. There are many drugs with prohibited molecules.
   See link. I made a copy in a docx in order to make a search easily. By the way, I made 2 mistakes: curcumine and High dose thiamine (B1) before recovering. + pineapple (L2) in crisis.
   This group does extensive research on histamine and is quite reputable. They list Thiamine/B1 as being a liberator and DAO blocker with certain types of administration:
   *) Thiamin as histamin liberator and DAO inhibitor
   Sattler 1985 (PDF with reference on histamine active substance, in English)
   Sattler J, Hesterberg R, Lorenz W, Schmidt U, Crombach M, Stahlknecht CD.: "Inhibition of human and canine diamine oxidase by drugs used in an intensive care unit: relevance for clinical side effects?" Agents Actions. 1985 Apr;16(3-4):91-4.
   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3925736
   (Liste unverträglicher Medikamente (DAO-Hemmer))
   *) Low histamine Diet Anit Tee factvsfitness.com (pdf with info I English)
   *) Liste de compatibilité alimentaire – Histamine
   Triée par ordre alphabétique, avec catégories.
   Communauté d'intérêts Suisse de l'intolérance à l'histamine (SIGHI) www.mastzellaktivierung.info | www.histaminintoleranz.ch => rubrique téléchargement / Liste détaillée de la compatibilité des aliments de base (rubrique : Régime alimentaire pour éliminer l'histamine > Téléchargement).
   Info en anglais / français / allemand.
   Liste PDF en français
   FoodList histamine, FR, alphabétique, avec catégories
   https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/31_FoodList_FR_alphab_avecCat.pdf
7. Fix the gut
   => Dysbiosis – Probiotics? – Strengthen gut walls – Target diet if intolerant gut

Sources and references
0. Useful Info

• Dr. Becky Campbell – Free Histamine Guide.
• https://lowhistamineeats.com/clear-histamine-naturally/
• Reversing Histamine Intolerance Takes More Than a Low-Histamine Diet
  https://caplanhealthinstitute.com/reversing-histamine-intolerance-takes-more-than-a-low-histamine-diet/
• https://drtaniadempsey.com/5-natural-antihistamines-to-combat-allergies/
  Sources and references

1. “Effect of dietary fatty acid and micronutrient intake/energy ratio on serum diamine oxidase activity in healthy women”
   https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28606572/
   Results: Serum DAO activity in both phases was positively correlated with intake of long-chain fatty acids, saturated fatty acids, and monounsaturated fatty acids (P < 0.05). Intake of phosphorus, calcium, zinc, magnesium, iron, and vitamin B12 during the luteal phase was positively correlated with serum DAO activity (P < 0.05).
2. “Nutrient-induced inflammation in the intestine – PMC –NCBI.”
   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4520304/
   Understanding the relationship between nutrient absorption and intestinal inflammation is important. We need a better understanding of the interaction between enterocytes and the intestinal immune cells in nutrient absorption and the gut inflammatory responses.
3. The increased release of histamine and DAO is specific to fat feeding and is not shared by carbohydrate or protein feeding.
   Wollin A, Wang XL, Tso P. Nutrients regulate diamine oxidase release from intestinal mucosa. Am J Physiol. 1998;275:R969–R975. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
4. Adopting a leaky gut protocol or a diet rich in anti-inflammatory foods and high in antioxidants, can be instrumental in addressing the root-problem.
   Improving gut health and taking DAO are pillars of histamine intolerance treatment.
   https://caplanhealthinstitute.com/reversing-histamine-intolerance-takes-more-than-a-low-histamine-diet/
   Useful nutrients include vitamins B6, copper, iron, magnesium, phosphorus, zinc, and vitamin C. (a,b) Each of these nutrients both support and modulate immune function for the better.
   a. Maintz L, Novak N. Histamine and histamine intolerance. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007;85(5):1185-1196. doi:10.1093/ajcn/85.5.1185
   b. Miyoshi M, Ueno M, Matsuo M, et al. Effect of dietary fatty acid and micronutrient intake/energy ratio on serum diamine oxidase activity in healthy women. Nutrition. 2017;39-40:67-70. doi:10.1016/j.nut.2017.03.004
5. Le syndrome d'activation des mastocytes et l'activation inappropriée des mastocytes
   Les symptômes proviennent principalement de la libération de médiateurs et comprennent un prurit, des bouffées de chaleur et une dyspepsie due à une hypersécrétion gastrique.
6. Mastocyte activation syndrome and inappropriate activation of mastocytes
   Symptoms come mainly from the release of mediators and include pruritus, hot flashes and dyspepsia due to gastric hypersecretion.