Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?
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@Ray-Peat-Fanboy said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
Would you say that 80 - 90 % (perhaps even 95 %) of men in the west are incel?
To be an "incel" (how do modern people come up with all those fancy terms nowadays?), you would have to have severe erectile dysfunction, live in a very conservative country or be pretty poor (which, to be fair, is not seldom the case). Because if you want sex, you could always visit a hooker. If you don't want that because of moral reasons, which is perfectly understandable and reasonable, you're not an "incel". You've made a conscious and deliberate decision.
I agree with Peatly that the introduction of the "incel movement" and the "anti incel movement" is just one more deliberate move to have normal people fight among themselves instead of the ruling class.
@DonkeyDude said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
@Ray-Peat-Fanboy said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
men who are incel without being aware of it.
How is that even possible? A guy thinks he is having sex, but in reality he is not?
Some guys who watch porn 24/7 (so almost every young(ish) guy) probably really think that they have sex while rubbing one out to pixels on a screen, although rather subconsciously. I don't think the brain can really tell the difference.
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@Luke said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
To be an "incel" (how do modern people come up with all those fancy terms nowadays?),
This kind of thing is not new. Look up drapetomania
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Incels dont hate women (they dont hate people in general either)
Just because a man is unable to get a long term girlfriend , or have sex , doesn't mean that he is automatically going to be filled with hatred towards people lol . Some of them might feel lonely or depressed but thats all. Being unable to get a girlfriend or sex doesn't make you a bad person.
That logic is like saying that a person with a disability who cant walk will hate people who can walk . Doesn't make any sense.
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To be an "incel" (how do modern people come up with all those fancy terms nowadays?), you would have to have severe erectile dysfunction, live in a very conservative country or be pretty poor (which, to be fair, is not seldom the case). Because if you want sex, you could always visit a hooker. If you don't want that because of moral reasons, which is perfectly understandable and reasonable, you're not an "incel". You've made a conscious and deliberate decision.
Andrew Anglin, one of the more thoughtful people from the remnants of /pol/ alt right, defended the modern usage of incel by likening it to gambling: Would you say someone who refuses to partake in a rigged system is "voluntarily not a gambler"? No, that's just someone making a rational decision based on his self-interest. There was not much voluntary choosing, because it implies a significant amount of agency in a decision that was obvious to make. Note here that he thinks choosing to abstain from the dating market is a positive decision, for he elaborates on how many men get screwed over by divorce, harassment accusations, pregnancies, etc, to the point that "voluntarily celibate" is an entirely redundant phrase.
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@Ray-Peat-Fanboy Envy is a type of resentment. A feeling of being unjustly treated: "I deserve to have what they have!"
But you are right, insofar as the specific group of self-identified incels we are talking about, self-internalized social failures, often end up directing contempt inwardly toward themselves. This is what leads to the "I'm a loser, I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo" mantra that makes them listen to sad rock bands like Radiohead or whatever. If you actually go into these circles you'll see a lot of Indians and browns developing a sort of impotent self-conception with self-fulfilling prophecies about them being inadequate individuals.Women intuitively sense a different type of incel however, at least in addition to the aforementioned one, one that I've been trying to elaborate on, which is an antisocial type who directs their contempt outwardly, and who for the most part think they are actually quite self-confident people. These people are incel for their "social maladjustment," although these incels would instead argue they are merely abstaining from socializing either for their own benefit or from a lack of interest and even disdain for social activities.
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a deep seated problem with sexuality, using terms like vulgar and hypersexual and gluttonous
Also I just wanted to note that the reason I invoke gluttony in regard to hypersexuality is because sexual appetite and literal appetite are very closely linked. This is why fasting calms the libido, why eating red meat stimulates it, why women eating sloppily can be erotic to some, why those with overeating disorders also have masturbation addictions, and why excessive displays of both are disgusting to more sensible, "artful" types (Not saying I am one, I don't consider myself very artful). Oral sex was once likened to chicken soup. The analogies go hand-in-hand.
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@Tahodama said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
Andrew Anglin, one of the more thoughtful people from the remnants of /pol/ alt right, defended the modern usage of incel by likening it to gambling: Would you say someone who refuses to partake in a rigged system is "voluntarily not a gambler"?
A rigged system?
I swear you reactionary morons should spend even ONE percent of the energy you do on thinking about how stupid and icky girls are on actual political thought. All you think of is peepees and vaginas and boohoo women do this. Grow up, retard.
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@CO3 I haven't interacted with a girl in 8 years so it's hard for me to think about them, at least outside of principle, abstract terms.
In any case I watched my own dad get screwed over by divorce laws. I don't think he was blameless, but it was bizarre seeing courts just brutalize him.
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@CO3 Also, peepees and vagoo is a more important topic than actual political thought. HAHA! Go read more useless theory and see what good it does you.
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@Tahodama said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
I haven't interacted with a girl in 8 years
Rectify that. And no need to be handy with language in real life. Except to paraphrase and make it obvious.
Sorry about your dad and the legal system. I mean it.
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@CO3 said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
reactionary morons
If you are not, why aren't you responding to address in another thread.
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@ThinPicking It wasn't too big a deal, or at least I've been good at dealing with stress from a young age and, strangely, aspects from the divorce are less painful aspects of my childhood to remember than others. I'm in good standing with both my parents. But the separation was hard on my dad financially and socially for a good 10 years, if that tells you the toll it took on him. He recovered from it though.
Regarding my own high score of not talking to women, that's mostly a circumstantial thing. Ever since my midteens I lost all contact with my female friends and just never made any to replace them. Since then I've never had any indepth conversation with them, although I don't mind interacting with them. Just never felt the desire to do so since I have more pressing matters to deal with in life, and I don't view having female friends as an end in of itself.
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@Tahodama said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
I haven't interacted with a girl in 8 years so it's hard for me to think about them, at least outside of principle, abstract terms.
See but then who are you to comment on the system being rigged, on anything regarding social matters? The vast majority of (working) people interact with others all the time and have relationships and experiences outside of their parents'. By any reasonable metric you don't know what you're talking about. As unfortunate as I find you, please refrain from telling anyone how anything works, and focus on increasing your understanding by learning from those who actually exist as communicative and cooperative beings.
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Fair enough. And some joy for me in the first paragraph so thanks.
You're quite a brilliant writer.
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@ThinPicking The 'mission' thread?
I was busy and forgot. Also had a hard time making out what you meant. Don't take it the wrong way, but you have a slightly schizo edge to your posts. It makes it hard for me to even get what you're referring to.
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@CO3 I work a job where I have to socialize with people every 5 minutes and have found each and every one of them to be shallow and devoid of any worthwhile insight. I'm afraid my biases have been hardened, not softened, the more I experience.
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I would estimate the number is closer to 30%-40%. But it is growing every year and could already be 50%.
I read this whole thread and find it very interesting. A lot of good discussion and posts on both sides where some have mainstream understanding of "incel" vs others have deep knowledge of the subject and what it describes.
However it seems to lack one specific thing that Id like to include.
This is "lookism". It is attractiveness. This is the biggest and most important thing in incelism. We are ignoring all of the mainstream and political nonsense that is generally thought of when this topic is discussed.
Lets explain why there are so many men that can be considered incel, because IT IS NOT a political mindset. It is a description of a man that is unattractive to women. An incel is a man who cannot get sex from a woman without some form of bribery or transaction. Thats the real definition of an incel.
As said in other posts in this thread. Even if a man can get sex through prostitute, LTR/wife, etc, this does not stop them from being an incel.
There are many men either in denial or who are unaware of this, and this is called being blue pilled.
Luckily Ray Peat and the bioenergetic mindset is literarly the best solution imaginable. Health = Attractiveness. If you can get your health in full excellence through all the brilliance of Ray Peat and Bioengergetics, you should fully be able to become attractive to women and therefore no longer an incel.
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Most men aren't incels in the truest sense of the word. Back when being an "incel" was a niche thing, it was for men who tried absolutely everything beyond actual surgery or body-altering changes and STILL failed.
Nowadays, the term is applied loosely to any man who got rejected a few times and decided "it's over." I'm not denying it's hard to date as the average man. However, it's easy to become "above average" if you care for your health, body, sense of style, and overall develop an interesting personality.
I didn't have a successful dating life until I did the work to become a man worth dating. For most men, that's the course of action to take. So enjoy the ride, lift heavy weights, eat healthy, and get some cool stories to tell.
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@Tahodama said in Is being incel the "new normal" in 2024?:
To be an "incel" (how do modern people come up with all those fancy terms nowadays?), you would have to have severe erectile dysfunction, live in a very conservative country or be pretty poor (which, to be fair, is not seldom the case). Because if you want sex, you could always visit a hooker. If you don't want that because of moral reasons, which is perfectly understandable and reasonable, you're not an "incel". You've made a conscious and deliberate decision.
Andrew Anglin, one of the more thoughtful people from the remnants of /pol/ alt right, defended the modern usage of incel by likening it to gambling: Would you say someone who refuses to partake in a rigged system is "voluntarily not a gambler"? No, that's just someone making a rational decision based on his self-interest. There was not much voluntary choosing, because it implies a significant amount of agency in a decision that was obvious to make. Note here that he thinks choosing to abstain from the dating market is a positive decision, for he elaborates on how many men get screwed over by divorce, harassment accusations, pregnancies, etc, to the point that "voluntarily celibate" is an entirely redundant phrase.
I would argue that "getting laid" plays such a huge role in many peoples lives, that there is a significant amount of agency involved and it's a less obvious choice for most people nowadays.
But I understand the logic. I knew two guys who commited suicide after their wives divorced them and they lived to pay their now ex-wives lifestyle while never seeing their own children. So it makes sense to me to stay out of the marriage market without putting too much thought into it, when the system is rigged.
