Nicotine
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Yes or no?
ILF
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@b1 Sure! Not in doses too high, and not by smoking obviously. If the question is 'is the consumption of it optimally healthy?'
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Easy to get addicted to tbh. Cheaper supplements are just as effective.
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@b1 I don't think we have the kind of data we'd like to have (or think we have) to really know whether smoking untreated tobacco leaf (organic roll-your-own) is detrimental. The major confound is all the toxic crap most commercial tobacco is laced with. Even with those toxins, there were threads at RPF with "pro-tobacco-smoking points of view" posting studies about how difficult it was to give rodents, dogs and other animal models lung cancer by exposure to tobacco smoke.
I think many of us here have unusually well-attuned bullshit detectors (especially after seeing how "pushed", exaggerated and propagandized the industry-or government-promoted vaccine-mandate studies were pushed and conflicting information was suppressed). It's easy to see pro-tobacco-smoking studies as "industry propaganda" but I now think perhaps the same players, in some cases, control both sides.
We know that nicotine patches (without smoke) provide measurable pro-metabolic gains for IBS, preventing neuro-degeneration and dementia-causing illness. So by that measure, nicotine has a pretty substantial evidence base to support it.
Five years ago, I would have thought anyone saying a good word about smoking tobacco being healthy was industry-funded propaganda or bunk. Now I'm not so sure. I think a close look at the studies reveals something surprising: how difficult it is to find persuasive open-and-shut-case evidence for harms associated with smoking. I don't think there have been any RCTs (or ever could be due to ethics-committee rules) showing that smoking dried tobacco leaves with few or no additives causes lung problems, respiratory stress or anything else harmful.
I think the jury is out on this question more than we might have thought (those of us who once thought -- wrongly, I now believe -- that there is a conclusive evidence base showing that smoking tobacco is harmful). I think if you can afford very high-end roll-your-own tobacco with minimal additives, then smoking it may in fact be net beneficial. It's so expensive however that it's probably a bad idea for most people to consider starting. How would we know until we try (e.g. eating Peaty, being metabolically and scientifically attuned, and smoking high-end organic leaf tobacco) -- maybe it's worth considering for those can afford it. Yolo.
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Just to bring this thread back.
Ive been experimenting with nicotine as I did in the summer. Summer I was using nicotine gum which I believe is synthetically derived and noticed slight cognitive enhancement in terms of dopamine but felt too much like acetylcholine. I recently started trying nicotine pouches recently at 6mg and noticed the cognitive effects are much better with the pouches than the gum oddly, but when searching a little I found This post on X.
Anyway I was doing these pouches and felt way too much of a buzz and adrenaline and a massive dump of dopamine which was the only part I enjoyed. Even when keeping the pouch in for shorter periods of time like 1-2 minutes I’d still get a bad reaction.Definite benefits were decrease in estrogen and occasional increase in appetite, less abdominal fat. Better quality nails, increased dopamine.
Detriment was the adrenaline reaction and poor skin quality almost immediately after the hit but often then next day my skin would appear better than it had before which I liked. I also feel it’s harder to concentrate on tasks when I take too much.Today I only put in the pouch for about 30s, almost no adrenaline reaction and felt much more relaxing. 6mg is definitely too much and not sustainable, it feels like over 3 espresso shots. If I can find less than 6 and preferably less than 3 I’d be happy.
It’s one of those drugs that people hear the benefits from and think more won’t harm them when infact it will.
I should also add I don’t feel the need to increase my dose of nicotine like other people say, honestly I don’t know how they feel the want more, I always feel like I want less and cravings are not as bad as people say, a little hit is all you need to quench them.
Less is more in the case of nicotine and probably also caffeine for that matter.
I also like this thread on RPF… nicotine through a peat prism
Looking at comments from a lot of YouTube videos etc it seems most people feel >3mg is too much and start seeing bad effects in terms of cognition and physical performance. But people think quitting cold turkey is the solution (similar to caffeine) while they ignore any sort of benefits the substance might have had, such is the problem with human nature. A moderation approach is best considered in this case as is with caffeine.
If others could share their experience that would be nice
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@Jakeandpace i take 1mg gum multiple times a day when reading. probably 4-6x a day on average
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Taking it everyday could be a problem, I think it’s to do with acetylcholine, you may develop dependency. I’m not too sure but after about a week of pouches I’m feeling the acetylcholine effects. My thoughts are that it’s probably best to do periodically to inhibit 5 - alpha reductase and boost dopamine but everyday I’m feeling like it’s detrimental overall. Caffeine is a better ‘crutch’ if that’s how you look at it. Caffeine is better for long term I’d say and I’d keep nicotine to something that’s like every couple days weeks or months if at all.
But I’ll say this, the initial dopaminergic effects I got are now feeling less and less ‘good’. I’m gonna take a few days off and see if I notice change when trying again in a few days.
If you’ve ever taken shilajit you’d know the strong acetylcholine effects that has, I’m able to tell when something has that effect. Taking nicotine for the past week has shown me that after a few days of use, the acetylcholine effect is prominent, and starts to become deteimental. Coffee, I don’t get this.
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@Jakeandpace I have stopped and started including smoked tobacco a lot and it doesn't seem like that big of an issue. the only time I had trouble was when I was taking multiple nootropics in a stack as well as chewing nicotine gum 4mg 3x a day and taking mitolipin and I got choline overload symptoms. I think I might actually prefer nicotine in isolation over tobacco smoking. I haven't tried tobacco snus yet though.
