Thyroxine & RT3 troubleshooting - what worked for you?
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he patient will complain of weakness and episodes of prostration, frequently feeling quite unwell without being able to pinpoint the cause. Episodes of dizziness, sometimes cold sweats, caused by the blood sugar becoming abnormally low, are not uncommon. Often, an odd internal shivering is described. Aches and pains of a rheumatic nature are other frequent complaints. The patient often complains of the cold, and is likely to be cold to the touch. The subject does not feel well, and may look ill, with dark rings under the eyes, and a general pallor. There are likely to be digestive problems, with excessive wind and bloating, and bowel disturbances. The menstrual cycle may be disturbed, or absent and libido low. Depression and anxiety may also be a feature. Some of the symptoms complained of by patients with M.E. == Myalgic Encephalitis == are very similar, leading to the well-grounded suspicion that M.E. is associated with low adrenal reserve. Certainly, frequent minor illnesses are common, with an overlong course of quite minor infections, which may also have an unusually severe effect on the patient.
Low thyroid function has some of these features, and it may be difficult to distinguish one from the other; In fact it should not be necessary because, as I pointed out above, as the two are often together, so too must the treatment overlap and be designed to relieve both.
The complications of treating hypothyroid or under active thyroid patients, is that their consequent poor adrenal reserve may become suddenly obvious, as soon as the thyroid is treated. The thyroid supplementation may, at worst, precipitate the adrenal problem; but what usually happens, is that the thyroid replacement may either not apparently work at all, or the patient may have thyroid over dosage symptoms on quite a low level of replacement. Hence, where low adrenal reserve is suspected, it is possibly dangerous, and certainly ill advised, to treat the patient without supplementation of the adrenals, in the manner explained further below.
ok so this is me, I always do the same shit, hop on some strong cortisol "pro metabolic" stuff and it fuck with me. bold text is whats happening to me, these shivers happened few times in past months and its very unusual and new experience to me, its clearly cortisol related.
there is buch of resources that talk about cortisol importance in thyroid function.
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bone broth, inosine that was recently what I reintroduced, they are strongly affecting cortisol.
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If cortisol is the concern, the pregneolone and progesterone "steal" only occurs if your body truly needs the cortisol. Pregnenolone is probably the better choice due to the nature of progesterone. I found either to be more agreeable than cortisone or other pharmaceuticals.
If your cortisol sorts out, what I did was use T3 only for a few days if possible, then using small amounts of T4 after that trial period. Even now I use about 18mcgT4 and around 50mcg T3 at a time.
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What's more likely is your liver function is sub-optimal and T4 is converting into rT3, which lowers metabolism, makes you cold, and all that nasty stuff. If it was low cortisol you would have the same problems with T3 as T4. When someone responds poorly to only T4, that's indicative of a conversion issue. It can also be harder to fix because it's basically impossible to pinpoint where the problem is without some experimenting. There's no "blood test" to tell you why you're not converting T4. But some of the usual suspects are selenium deficiency, too much intestinal endotoxin, and not eating enough carbohydrate.
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@Mulloch94 well its not like i feel effect of t3 to a great extend either, it does help a bit with symptoms but with low total t4 all the symptoms intensify quickly, well im sure thet when i hop on too many so called metabolic supps, which in relatively healthy person they would be beneficial im sure, they cause me low cortisol symptoms. One good example is when i was doing magnesium baths, they were great initially but over time they caused me severe low blood sugar symptoms at night. I stopped gelatine and turine and inosine now and lets see if the pulse will increase during the day etc
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@FitnessMikey Trying to get a solution for a response to thyroid too. i notice the same extremely poor response to things that lower cortisol. seen youve been trying to solve this for a while
theres a study showing someone with addisons had their thyroid hormones fixed when given cortisol medication, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3429791/ & https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424895/pdf/postmedj00222-0031.pdf & https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1455194/pdf/califmed00008-0093.pdf
But its not conclusive , here a women with adrenal insufficiency due to low ACTH output had high levels of T3 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2066714/
cortisol can decrease t4 -> t3 conversion too https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7053919/ (maybe in addisons immune cells are destroying thyroid tissue? or thyroid lowers output / conversion so it doesnt lower already low cortisol more? )For you hydrocortisone didnt work when you tried this right?
i dont have access to cortisol medication. adrenal cortex didnt work probably because it has other hormones that potently inhibit cortisol signalling. megadose b5 didnt notice anything short term use. the closest thing i found is horse chestnut (escin) which can increase GRa receptors well and potentiates cortisol / glucocorticoid medication. but doesnt cross blood brain barrier well so its outside of the brain. vitamin D also does this (but can be some fuckery with excessive conversion to 1,25 form i found which opposes effects of thyroid and can worsen hypothyroid symptoms)
for me so far thyroid hormone = increased tiredness, then higher adrenaline. tried before bed also and couldnt sleep. im pushing through for longer to see if it changes to a proper response by 6 weeks or so
around every 45 minutes ive been dosing total for the day 36mcg t4 with 18mcg t3. on day 7 i dosed a couple late in the afternoon and the adrenaline at night was through the roof, so much that salt didnt work to lower it. so reduced to 24mcg t4 and 12mcg t3 for now. taken before 11am.
i tried high doses of t3 only up to 56mcg at once before and it didnt change things.i read a study implying effects on increasing adrenaline in the heart should return to normal by about day 7, but other areas take longer
As t3 / t4 lowers cortisol maybe it has to be done low dose & for prolonged time with low cortisol? assuming adrenals have atrophied from prolonged hypothyroidism , https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajplegacy.1956.184.2.371?journalCode=ajplegacy while thyroid helps the adrenals return or production return over time potentially , idk if it does thisanyway aside from that whats the longest time you tried it for consecutively? and youre measuring response by temp under the tongue?
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@cs3000 What im sure about, is that no cortisol-lowering supps and slow incremental dosing with thyroid, i only take 1/5th of the b complex pill and lets see what will happened.
Last night i didn't get low blood sugar so it's a good start already.
There must be something else, maybe zinc deficiency because i responded to zinc supplementation great before until it caused the onset of insomnia, and had to stop it.
what else I'm certain is that slow improvements are huge improvements honestly.
But cortisol supplementation didn't help me no.
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@FitnessMikey yeah i avoid them for now until its fixed. many flavanols also do this at high enough doses. and trying lower consistent approach. whats your temperature usually?
in broda barnes book:
@Jennifer posted she had lower temp at first then warm temp consistently by around 2 months (but she also said adrenaline lowered right away). a study in a heart patient took 6 weeks for decent effects -
@cs3000 my temps are typically good, around 36.9C maybe besides low first thing in the morning, but the problem is a low pulse amongst few other symptoms, i do have moments where pulse raise to around 70 beats, I'm warm most of the time probably due to regular meals and decent carb intake.
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@cs3000 i was on 50mcg of thyroxine and some of porcine NDT for t3 for over a month and barely felt improvements, only small progress, i bumped now to 75 because it was low in the blood test, will see if anything happens now, and if nothing positive will happen ill drop to 50mcg back and reassess.
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@FitnessMikey good temp & warmth (if measured after meal) but low pulse can sometimes indicate good thyroid but enlarged heart from exercise
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@cs3000 heat production is good for the most of the time, but still rt3 is building up, ill figure it out sonner or later, being patient is hard and take slow aproach to thing plus memory is short, this cortisol
Supps iv been there multiple times and had same conclusion lol -
K Kvirion referenced this topic on
