cancer
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@Amazoniac said in cancer:
@Jennifer, are the clinics based on Gerson's protocol in Mexico an option to consider? Battling a relative for one small win at a time can be draining and lead to loss of valuable time. You may also face pressure from the entire family if you oppose their opinion.
The cancer program offered by these clinics would demand a series of interventions at once, him and the rest of the family would probably be less resistant when clinicians are involved, and part of the responsibility would be lifted from you (food preparation, supplements, decisions).
The protocol should rely on the support of substances that you're familiar with. A few examples:
- Aspirin
- Niacin
- Caffeine (through the other end, but still)
- (Pro)poison A
- Thyroid hormones (with Lugol's solution)
Regarding the clinics, some are depressive, but others look like a spa with people on vacation. They can be pricy; however, it's possible to find alternatives, such as the remote (yet supervised) version of the treatment.
We read on occasion the miraculous recoveries after minor changes, but comprehensive approaches increase the chances of success. If you had difficulty convincing him to let go of a beverage, a marked change in diet for therapeutic purposes doesn't seem likely without an external driver.
Nevertheless, in addition to the listed substances, Ray's cascara sagrada (check this out as well) to keep the bowels clean would be simple to apply for now.
Thank you, Gustavo. I appreciate the suggestions. My dad takes aspirin daily, gets provitamin A from mainly dairy and eggs, and though not enemas, he has coffee twice a day and regular elimination. As far as pressure from family goes, I’m the only one now with any real involvement in my dad’s life so the only opinion, and really the only one that matters, is his and he’s set on having conventional treatment. I essentially control his diet, but with my family’s failure to thrive on a diet of predominantly plants, let alone one centered on juice, and my mum’s success treating her cancer with more of an animal-based diet combined with some of Ray’s recommendations, I feel more confident in that than the Gerson Therapy.
Jennifer,
A diet with rich in animal products is compatible with healing, but failing to thrive on plant-based diets can be advantageous if the approach is tweaked to limit the undernourishment to cancer cells as best as possible. The therapeutic diets are intentionally designed this way and the exclusion of most animal products is not unique to Gerson's protocol, other experimenters arrived at similar conclusions (Koch, Breuss and Kelley are examples). Considering that they dealt with people who were debilitated and wasting away at a dangerous rate, it's probable that your dad could tolerate a restrictive phase fine. Yet, cheese and solid meals are part of Gerson's program.
He's skipping to an aggressive option before giving a chance to the multitude of alternatives available, that could be tried under the right medical supervision.
I know your perspective on cravings, intuition and boundaries, so please don't crush me.
If a marked change in diet is out of question, a share of the nourishment of cancer cells is derived from tissue mobilization, which is something that you can control with supplements.
Regarding Progest-E, its vitamin E is sourced from soybean, that has desirable anti-cancer profile:
Antioxidant Micronutrients | Human Nutrition
"To evaluate whether various forms of vitamin E act synergistically, we examined the combinations of γT with αT, δT, or γTE that are rich in tissues and/or diets (30). Combinations of γT (25 μM) and δT (10 μM) or γT (25 μM) and γTE (2.5 μM) inhibited proliferation additively or synergistically (Fig. 3). Interestingly, these combinations exhibited antiproliferative potency similar to that of γT alone at 50 μM. αT, which is the most abundant vitamin E form in tissues and supplements, did not significantly enhance or counteract the inhibitory effect from γT alone (Fig. 3B)."
"It is noteworthy that the tumor cell lines we have tested appear to be more sensitive to γT-induced anti-proliferation or apoptosis compared with normal prostate epithelial cells. γT and combinations of vitamin E forms are therefore potentially attractive candidates as anticancer agents."
"It is becoming clear that individual vitamin E forms possess different chemical and biological activities (6) and have distinct tissue distributions (46, 47). We therefore hypothesize that combinations of different forms of vitamin E may be superior to each alone. Consistently, combinations of γT and δT or γT and γTE showed additive or synergistic effects. Importantly, αT did not interfere with the effect of γT, although αT is known to deplete γT in vivo (48). Although high doses of γT supplementation would be necessary to achieve relatively high concentrations of γT, i.e., 50 μM, the combination effect indicates that a similar biological outcome may be achieved by a moderate supplementation with mixed vitamin E forms such as γT and δT or γTE. The significance of this observation awaits further investigation"
Different Roles of Natural Forms of Vitamin E in Chemoprevention and Treatment of Prostate Cancer
"Starting from 2002, traditionally ignored vitamin E forms have been researched on their ability to modulate PCa, including γT, δT, and TEs (mainly γTE and δTE) in preclinical cell and animal studies. In particular, these vitamin E forms show much stronger anti-PCa effects than αT in cell studies, with relative potency concerning antiproliferation and proapoptosis of δTE, γTE > δT > γT >> αT. Further, γT, γTmT, and δT have been found to be effective for inhibiting relatively early-stage PCa, as indicated in carcinogens-induced and genetically engineered PCa models, whereas display modest effects against late stage cancer as indicated in PCa cell-implanted xenograft models. Meanwhile, γTE and δTE are shown to strongly inhibit development of prostate adenocarcinoma in genetically engineered spontaneously tumor-developing models. For this effect, δTE appears to be stronger than δT, the latter being more effective than γT. Additionally, amber evidence also suggests that γTE can block implanted PCa cells associated tumor development in xenograft models and is stronger than γT for this effect. γTE can also enhance anti-PCa effects of chemotherapeutic drugs in mice. Overall, these anti-PCa effects of γT, δTE, γTE, and δTE observed in preclinical studies provide evidence supporting the notion that these compounds may be useful for preventing early stage PCa progression in people at moderate-risk and high-risk of PCa. Considering their good safety, these compounds should be considered in RCT trials for secondary and tertiary (especially γTE and δTE) chemoprevention."
Unknown author:
And in line with Summer's comment:
Effects of fenbendazole and vitamin E succinate on the growth and survival of prostate cancer cells
@Jennifer said in New "Mission" of RPF:
It makes me happy to know my log brought people comfort. I wish I had something worth reading, but my log would most likely be just a bunch of random thoughts like my current thoughts on previous eras and how that energy has been passed down through the generations and potentially affected present day health. I’ve been watching Outlander and I think it’s a fantastic show, but brutal. It depicts a draconian time and it made me think of how staying silent and/or suppressing certain emotions thought to be “weak” to avoid persecution and for survival in general, may have an effect on the thyroid in particular. Since the thyroid is located in the throat chakra, the throat chakra being our truth, would not speaking our truth cause that energy that needs to be expressed to get trapped there and wreak havoc on our thyroid function and overall health? Something I find interesting is in First Nations culture, turquoise is believed to be protective to the bones and is often worn around the neck. Turquoise is blue and blue is the color that represents the throat chakra, and the thyroid and parathyroid are the main glands responsible for calcium metabolism and the integrity of our connective tissues, including our bones.
If this is what you refer to as worthless, keep up with the unworthy posts.
Ryke Hamer took the psychophysiological principle to the extreme, but you might find some validity in it.
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@Amazoniac said in cancer:
It must be best for the methionine restriction to affect its concentration in circulation (or else cells keep acquiring it) and to moderate the one-carbon donors that promote its regeneration.
Methionine restriction may also potentialize the effects of radiation- and chemo-therapies:
Methionine diet restriction both inhibits tumor growth and radiosensitizes RAS-driven sarcoma models [65,66]. Methionine restriction also improves the efficacy of chemotherapeutic drugs. For example, in tumor-bearing rats, depleting methionine increased the efficacy of vincristine [67].
From Interactions between Radiation and One-Carbon Metabolism, a review paper published in Int J Mol Sci. 2022 Feb 8;23(3):1919.
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Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
In my recovery, I’m a soldier at war, I have broken down walls
I defined, I designed, my recovery
In the sound of the sea, in the oceans of me
I defined, I designed, my recovery ~ James Arthur -
@Jennifer I have found that high amounts of THC shrink almost all tumors and can fix cancer. You need around 1 gram a day for a month or so. See CannabisHealthRadio.com and listen to some of the success stories. I’ve witnessed a number of them myself on various Facebook groups.
You can use suppositories (rectal) which is what we have done (with a family member with cancer.) It doesn’t get you high, just mildly tranquilized but no problem working or driving or functioning.
I am pretty much convinced this is the way to go for anyone with cancer. I haven’t found a cancer that won’t respond. I know some people have found it doesn’t work. But I wonder if they used THC, and how much they used. It has to be THC, not CBD, and a very high amount.
Rectal suppositories gets the THC right into the interstitium, every cell in the body is bathed in it.
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Amazing. Thank you for sharing, @Ecstatic_Hamster. I’ll listen to the success stories, for sure. Thyroid and Progest-E have been effective, too. My mum used both to treat her cancer.
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Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Jennifer,
We can find negative reactions to anything. These therapeutic diets are not infallible, but I bet that plant-based options would fare better in comparison to animal-based ones if they were compared in a group of volunteers. As Lejeboca pointed out, they also help to sensitize cancer cells to conventional treatments. Livingstone-Wheeler program would be another example that adopts them. I recently came across a team implementing Budwig's protocol, but they changed it to emphasize the restriction of animal products. Your dad can be an exception, but don't discard plant-based approaches altogether, they can serve as a backup plan after some adjustments to suit him.
Rodent's suggestion is good considering that you need something simple. You might find relevant information by Rick Simpson (major advocate of cannabis extract).
- Repurposing of Bromocriptine for Cancer Therapy (Ray's suggestion)
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@Jennifer those are good. And should be used. We did many things, including Bengston healing which is fantastic. But now I know cancer tumors are easily dealt with. You can put THC on a melanoma and watch it disappear with no scar, even.
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@Amazoniac said in cancer:
Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Jennifer,
We can find negative reactions to anything. These therapeutic diets are not infallible, but I bet that plant-based options would fare better in comparison to animal-based ones if they were compared in a group of volunteers. As Lejeboca pointed out, they also help to sensitize cancer cells to conventional treatments. Livingstone-Wheeler program would be another example that adopts them. I recently came across a team implementing Budwig's protocol, but they changed it to emphasize the restriction of animal products. Your dad can be an exception, but don't discard plant-based approaches altogether, they can serve as a backup plan after some adjustments to suit him.
Rodent's suggestion is good considering that you need something simple. You might find relevant information by Rick Simpson (major advocate of cannabis extract).
- Repurposing of Bromocriptine for Cancer Therapy (Ray's suggestion)
Sorry for taking so long to respond. So many spinning plates…
Yes, we can find negative reactions to anything, but I personally would bet on a combination of plant and animal options faring better just from pleasure alone, however, such a balance is a hard sell in a world of extremes where the no pain, no gain mindset dominates, as if we couldn’t possibly achieve health without sacrificing our happiness in the process and yet, it is joy sprung from a deep love and respect for ourselves and our lives that I believe is needed to not only cure disease, but prevent it from ever manifesting in our bodies. Whatever food feeds our soul, taken without any guilt, is the most life giving IMO, but we fight conflicting and fearful messages daily and those messages become the beliefs we adopt, and belief is a powerful thing.
Plants are promoted in mainstream as healthy and animal foods, especially fatty ones, are often vilified so the volunteers would most likely have preexisting beliefs surrounding the two going into the study, and beliefs have been shown to affect outcomes. It’s actually the belief in a cure that protocols instill in those who have been handed a death sentence that I believe is the main thing that makes them healing, however, setting that aside, if going purely by science, the evidence from studies I’ve seen on gut morphology indicate that the human digestive system is that of a frugivore’s and faunivore’s so I can’t imagine animal foods being less conducive to healing than veggies and grains.
From a purely scientific standpoint, even if I could convince my dad to follow a plant-based protocol again, I wouldn’t dare try. IMO, it’s contraindicated for someone like him who has a tendency toward dangerously low cholesterol so putting him on a diet that has been shown to reduce cholesterol because of the belief that cancer cells must be starved, as if they are somehow separate from us, is not something I could do in good conscience. And at the risk of sounding like one of Grant’s and Garret’s followers, there’s the added issue of the carotenoids abundant in plant-based diets potentially worsening his thyroid function that can’t easily be rectified with a thyroid supplement because thyroid supplements lower cholesterol. On Dr. Esselstyn’s low-fat, plant-based program, my dad’s total cholesterol was down to 90.
In my experience, some people are disempowered by protocols, finding them highly restrictive, overly complicated, joyless and expensive. I have a juicing setup with a 50 lb Amish made press, lab equipment and chemicals, enema bags, medical devices, a library of books and a supplement graveyard from my Natural Hygiene, Gerson, Budwig, RBTI and Dr. Morse days, the cost of which could have afforded me a converted Sprinter van to travel the coast and find myself a part of the living instead of the dying. People facing disease need a reason to live more than ever, and when life brings into your awareness people whose bodies were riddled with lemon-sized tumors that shrunk by 70% within days doing nothing more than consuming ice cream and dancing in celebration of their life, it’s hard to reconcile with the notion that one has to follow strict protocols to overcome cancer or any other disease. For some, letting go is the cure.
In my recovery, I’m a soldier at war, I have broken down walls
I defined, I designed, my recovery
In the sound of the sea, in the oceans of me
I defined, I designed, my recovery ~ James Arthur -
@Ecstatic_Hamster, does Bengston healing require one believe in the method for it to work? I saw an energy healer based on a practitioner’s recommendation, but experienced nothing from it, however, the idea of someone else healing me when I believe we have the capacity to heal ourselves didn’t sit well with me so I was essentially a non-believer.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster, does Bengston healing require one believe in the method for it to work? I saw an energy healer based on a practitioner’s recommendation, but experienced nothing from it, however, the idea of someone else healing me when I believe we have the capacity to heal ourselves didn’t sit well with me so I was essentially a non-believer.
No not at all. It works on mice and rats and dogs and cats. No belief at all needed and skepticism probably is much better.
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@Amazoniac said in cancer:
Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Jennifer,
We can find negative reactions to anything. These therapeutic diets are not infallible, but I bet that plant-based options would fare better in comparison to animal-based ones if they were compared in a group of volunteers. As Lejeboca pointed out, they also help to sensitize cancer cells to conventional treatments. Livingstone-Wheeler program would be another example that adopts them. I recently came across a team implementing Budwig's protocol, but they changed it to emphasize the restriction of animal products. Your dad can be an exception, but don't discard plant-based approaches altogether, they can serve as a backup plan after some adjustments to suit him.
Rodent's suggestion is good considering that you need something simple. You might find relevant information by Rick Simpson (major advocate of cannabis extract).
- Repurposing of Bromocriptine for Cancer Therapy (Ray's suggestion)
Sorry for taking so long to respond. So many spinning plates…
Yes, we can find negative reactions to anything, but I personally would bet on a combination of plant and animal options faring better just from pleasure alone, however, such a balance is a hard sell in a world of extremes where the no pain, no gain mindset dominates, as if we couldn’t possibly achieve health without sacrificing our happiness in the process and yet, it is joy sprung from a deep love and respect for ourselves and our lives that I believe is needed to not only cure disease, but prevent it from ever manifesting in our bodies. Whatever food feeds our soul, taken without any guilt, is the most life giving IMO, but we fight conflicting and fearful messages daily and those messages become the beliefs we adopt, and belief is a powerful thing.
Plants are promoted in mainstream as healthy and animal foods, especially fatty ones, are often vilified so the volunteers would most likely have preexisting beliefs surrounding the two going into the study, and beliefs have been shown to affect outcomes. It’s actually the belief in a cure that protocols instill in those who have been handed a death sentence that I believe is the main thing that makes them healing, however, setting that aside, if going purely by science, the evidence from studies I’ve seen on gut morphology indicate that the human digestive system is that of a frugivore’s and faunivore’s so I can’t imagine animal foods being less conducive to healing than veggies and grains.
From a purely scientific standpoint, even if I could convince my dad to follow a plant-based protocol again, I wouldn’t dare try. IMO, it’s contraindicated for someone like him who has a tendency toward dangerously low cholesterol so putting him on a diet that has been shown to reduce cholesterol because of the belief that cancer cells must be starved, as if they are somehow separate from us, is not something I could do in good conscience. And at the risk of sounding like one of Grant’s and Garret’s followers, there’s the added issue of the carotenoids abundant in plant-based diets potentially worsening his thyroid function that can’t easily be rectified with a thyroid supplement because thyroid supplements lower cholesterol. On Dr. Esselstyn’s low-fat, plant-based program, my dad’s total cholesterol was down to 90.
In my experience, some people are disempowered by protocols, finding them highly restrictive, overly complicated, joyless and expensive. I have a juicing setup with a 50 lb Amish made press, lab equipment and chemicals, enema bags, medical devices, a library of books and a supplemental graveyard from my Natural Hygiene, Gerson, Budwig, RBTI and Dr. Morse days, the cost of which could have afforded me a converted Sprinter van to travel the coast and find myself a part of the living instead of the dying. People facing disease need a reason to live more than ever, and when life brings into your awareness people whose bodies were riddled with lemon-sized tumors that shrunk by 70% within days doing nothing more than consuming ice cream and dancing in celebration of their life, it’s hard to reconcile with the notion that one has to follow strict protocols to overcome cancer or any other disease. For some, letting go is the cure.
Jennifer, some comments:
- Plant-based diets can include animal products, they're just not major components.
- Cravings are more reliable for the short-term. Different conditions can make people intolerant to certain foods, but they eat them anyway in spite of being shocked in the aftermath. Nevertheless, many cases who develop cancer eat their desired foods on a daily basis. If they continue on the same track, nothing is likely to change.
- If an agent compromised the thyroid to the point of incapacitating it, this person could be treated as someone who lacked a thyroid gland. Low cholesterol is a feature in cancer that's recurrent enough to be remarked by some of the mentioned authors. It's not a obstruction to adopt therapies and can be relieved. Artificial lowering of cholesterol is concerning, but it's worse when it's a consequence of disease.
- Tumors can shrink and disappear after atypical factors are introduced (or effortlessly), but it doesn't mean that it would be easy to reproduce these effects.
- It's not necessary to follow protocols to recover, but these try to incorporate what generally works. Without knowing each case individually, we have to base on the generalization.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster do you have a recommendation on what product to use for that?
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said in cancer:
@Jennifer those are good. And should be used. We did many things, including Bengston healing which is fantastic. But now I know cancer tumors are easily dealt with. You can put THC on a melanoma and watch it disappear with no scar, even.
Product recommendation?
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said in cancer:
@Jennifer those are good. And should be used. We did many things, including Bengston healing which is fantastic. But now I know cancer tumors are easily dealt with. You can put THC on a melanoma and watch it disappear with no scar, even.
Product recommendation?
You look for FECO, which is full extract cannabis oil, with very high THC. You can make it at home but it’s easier to buy it, if you can afford it. It can be US$35 per gram for high quality FECO. Cancer requires 1 gram per day, so it can be a bit expensive, but it works in a month or so, and then only a maintenance dose is needed.
You can buy it here
https://oglabsgenetics.com/#!/High-THC-Oil/c/76164081
I have no affiliation with them, but I have found they faithfully delivered and communicated with people I know who ordered from them. Mike Wise is a good person.
You will get VERY VERY VERY high unless you use rectal suppositories, in which case you will not get high (much or at all) and they are super effective going into the lymphatic system almost immediately.
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@Amazoniac said in cancer:
@Amazoniac said in cancer:
Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Jennifer,
We can find negative reactions to anything. These therapeutic diets are not infallible, but I bet that plant-based options would fare better in comparison to animal-based ones if they were compared in a group of volunteers. As Lejeboca pointed out, they also help to sensitize cancer cells to conventional treatments. Livingstone-Wheeler program would be another example that adopts them. I recently came across a team implementing Budwig's protocol, but they changed it to emphasize the restriction of animal products. Your dad can be an exception, but don't discard plant-based approaches altogether, they can serve as a backup plan after some adjustments to suit him.
Rodent's suggestion is good considering that you need something simple. You might find relevant information by Rick Simpson (major advocate of cannabis extract).
- Repurposing of Bromocriptine for Cancer Therapy (Ray's suggestion)
Sorry for taking so long to respond. So many spinning plates…
Yes, we can find negative reactions to anything, but I personally would bet on a combination of plant and animal options faring better just from pleasure alone, however, such a balance is a hard sell in a world of extremes where the no pain, no gain mindset dominates, as if we couldn’t possibly achieve health without sacrificing our happiness in the process and yet, it is joy sprung from a deep love and respect for ourselves and our lives that I believe is needed to not only cure disease, but prevent it from ever manifesting in our bodies. Whatever food feeds our soul, taken without any guilt, is the most life giving IMO, but we fight conflicting and fearful messages daily and those messages become the beliefs we adopt, and belief is a powerful thing.
Plants are promoted in mainstream as healthy and animal foods, especially fatty ones, are often vilified so the volunteers would most likely have preexisting beliefs surrounding the two going into the study, and beliefs have been shown to affect outcomes. It’s actually the belief in a cure that protocols instill in those who have been handed a death sentence that I believe is the main thing that makes them healing, however, setting that aside, if going purely by science, the evidence from studies I’ve seen on gut morphology indicate that the human digestive system is that of a frugivore’s and faunivore’s so I can’t imagine animal foods being less conducive to healing than veggies and grains.
From a purely scientific standpoint, even if I could convince my dad to follow a plant-based protocol again, I wouldn’t dare try. IMO, it’s contraindicated for someone like him who has a tendency toward dangerously low cholesterol so putting him on a diet that has been shown to reduce cholesterol because of the belief that cancer cells must be starved, as if they are somehow separate from us, is not something I could do in good conscience. And at the risk of sounding like one of Grant’s and Garret’s followers, there’s the added issue of the carotenoids abundant in plant-based diets potentially worsening his thyroid function that can’t easily be rectified with a thyroid supplement because thyroid supplements lower cholesterol. On Dr. Esselstyn’s low-fat, plant-based program, my dad’s total cholesterol was down to 90.
In my experience, some people are disempowered by protocols, finding them highly restrictive, overly complicated, joyless and expensive. I have a juicing setup with a 50 lb Amish made press, lab equipment and chemicals, enema bags, medical devices, a library of books and a supplemental graveyard from my Natural Hygiene, Gerson, Budwig, RBTI and Dr. Morse days, the cost of which could have afforded me a converted Sprinter van to travel the coast and find myself a part of the living instead of the dying. People facing disease need a reason to live more than ever, and when life brings into your awareness people whose bodies were riddled with lemon-sized tumors that shrunk by 70% within days doing nothing more than consuming ice cream and dancing in celebration of their life, it’s hard to reconcile with the notion that one has to follow strict protocols to overcome cancer or any other disease. For some, letting go is the cure.
Jennifer, some comments:
- Plant-based diets can include animal products, they're just not major components.
- Cravings are more reliable for the short-term. Different conditions can make people intolerant to certain foods, but they eat them anyway in spite of being shocked in the aftermath. Nevertheless, many cases who develop cancer eat their desired foods on a daily basis. If they continue on the same track, nothing is likely to change.
- If an agent compromised the thyroid to the point of incapacitating it, this person could be treated as someone who lacked a thyroid gland. Low cholesterol is a feature in cancer that's recurrent enough to be remarked by some of the mentioned authors. It's not a obstruction to adopt therapies and can be relieved. Artificial lowering of cholesterol is concerning, but it's worse when it's a consequence of disease.
- Tumors can shrink and disappear after atypical factors are introduced (or effortlessly), but it doesn't mean that it would be easy to reproduce these effects.
- It's not necessary to follow protocols to recover, but these try to incorporate what generally works. Without knowing each case individually, we have to base on the generalization.
“Plant-based diets can include animal products, they're just not major components.”
Right, but I think a diet that includes an abundance of both plants and animal foods would fare better long-term for the majority than a diet of predominantly plants or predominantly animal foods.
“Nevertheless, many cases who develop cancer eat their desired foods on a daily basis. If they continue on the same track, nothing is likely to change.”
Because it’s not solely about food. That’s why I suggest looking beyond dietary interventions when disease has manifested, and used the example of spontaneous healing doing joyful activities. The idea is to shift our energy from a state of dis-ease (heaviness) to one of ease (lightness) so just eating what we crave without changing the other factors that burden us and contribute to our diseased state rarely leads to lasting health, IME. As much as honoring cravings can be an impetus for change, it alone does not cure unhealed trauma, self-loathing, entertaining abusive relationships, working a job we hate etc. Häagen-Dazs lightened the load, but curing my condition was an inside job.
“If an agent compromised the thyroid to the point of incapacitating it, this person could be treated as someone who lacked a thyroid gland. Low cholesterol is a feature in cancer that's recurrent enough to be remarked by some of the mentioned authors. It's not an obstruction to adopt therapies and can be relieved. Artificial lowering of cholesterol is concerning, but it's worse when it's a consequence of disease.”
Thankfully, my dad’s cholesterol isn’t low. It only drops too low when consuming a diet of predominantly plants and normalizes on a more balanced ratio of plant and animal foods.
“Tumors can shrink and disappear after atypical factors are introduced (or effortlessly), but it doesn't mean that it would be easy to reproduce these effects.”
I agree, for those who struggle to let go. There’s fear in the unknown, especially when the unknown involves things that we are told lead to disease and when historically we’ve been taught to suppress our desires—some don’t even know what brings them joy or even think they deserve it, they’ve been in the struggle for so long—and spontaneous healing/curing “incurable” diseases isn’t something we often hear about outside of religious, spiritual and alternative communities. It exists, but mainstream’s voice is the loudest.
“It's not necessary to follow protocols to recover, but these try to incorporate what generally works.”
Right, just like mainstream protocols. My dad said he won’t try alternative therapies because he only goes by “proven treatments backed by studies” and thinks “alternative therapies are quackery,” just like some think my suggestion foolish because I don’t have numerous studies on spontaneous healing as a byproduct of doing what brings us joy as proof of its efficacy. I only have my experience, the experience of others whose health improved while vacationing or falling in love, observations of children—the spontaneous healers—from my years working in childcare, and accounts of NDEs. As backwards as I think this is, given its instinct, my suggestion of doing what brings us joy as a treatment for disease requires the most of what is in short supply nowadays—faith.
In my recovery, I’m a soldier at war, I have broken down walls
I defined, I designed, my recovery
In the sound of the sea, in the oceans of me
I defined, I designed, my recovery ~ James Arthur -
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@Amazoniac said in cancer:
@Amazoniac said in cancer:
Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Jennifer,
We can find negative reactions to anything. These therapeutic diets are not infallible, but I bet that plant-based options would fare better in comparison to animal-based ones if they were compared in a group of volunteers. As Lejeboca pointed out, they also help to sensitize cancer cells to conventional treatments. Livingstone-Wheeler program would be another example that adopts them. I recently came across a team implementing Budwig's protocol, but they changed it to emphasize the restriction of animal products. Your dad can be an exception, but don't discard plant-based approaches altogether, they can serve as a backup plan after some adjustments to suit him.
Rodent's suggestion is good considering that you need something simple. You might find relevant information by Rick Simpson (major advocate of cannabis extract).
- Repurposing of Bromocriptine for Cancer Therapy (Ray's suggestion)
Sorry for taking so long to respond. So many spinning plates…
Yes, we can find negative reactions to anything, but I personally would bet on a combination of plant and animal options faring better just from pleasure alone, however, such a balance is a hard sell in a world of extremes where the no pain, no gain mindset dominates, as if we couldn’t possibly achieve health without sacrificing our happiness in the process and yet, it is joy sprung from a deep love and respect for ourselves and our lives that I believe is needed to not only cure disease, but prevent it from ever manifesting in our bodies. Whatever food feeds our soul, taken without any guilt, is the most life giving IMO, but we fight conflicting and fearful messages daily and those messages become the beliefs we adopt, and belief is a powerful thing.
Plants are promoted in mainstream as healthy and animal foods, especially fatty ones, are often vilified so the volunteers would most likely have preexisting beliefs surrounding the two going into the study, and beliefs have been shown to affect outcomes. It’s actually the belief in a cure that protocols instill in those who have been handed a death sentence that I believe is the main thing that makes them healing, however, setting that aside, if going purely by science, the evidence from studies I’ve seen on gut morphology indicate that the human digestive system is that of a frugivore’s and faunivore’s so I can’t imagine animal foods being less conducive to healing than veggies and grains.
From a purely scientific standpoint, even if I could convince my dad to follow a plant-based protocol again, I wouldn’t dare try. IMO, it’s contraindicated for someone like him who has a tendency toward dangerously low cholesterol so putting him on a diet that has been shown to reduce cholesterol because of the belief that cancer cells must be starved, as if they are somehow separate from us, is not something I could do in good conscience. And at the risk of sounding like one of Grant’s and Garret’s followers, there’s the added issue of the carotenoids abundant in plant-based diets potentially worsening his thyroid function that can’t easily be rectified with a thyroid supplement because thyroid supplements lower cholesterol. On Dr. Esselstyn’s low-fat, plant-based program, my dad’s total cholesterol was down to 90.
In my experience, some people are disempowered by protocols, finding them highly restrictive, overly complicated, joyless and expensive. I have a juicing setup with a 50 lb Amish made press, lab equipment and chemicals, enema bags, medical devices, a library of books and a supplemental graveyard from my Natural Hygiene, Gerson, Budwig, RBTI and Dr. Morse days, the cost of which could have afforded me a converted Sprinter van to travel the coast and find myself a part of the living instead of the dying. People facing disease need a reason to live more than ever, and when life brings into your awareness people whose bodies were riddled with lemon-sized tumors that shrunk by 70% within days doing nothing more than consuming ice cream and dancing in celebration of their life, it’s hard to reconcile with the notion that one has to follow strict protocols to overcome cancer or any other disease. For some, letting go is the cure.
Jennifer, some comments:
- Plant-based diets can include animal products, they're just not major components.
- Cravings are more reliable for the short-term. Different conditions can make people intolerant to certain foods, but they eat them anyway in spite of being shocked in the aftermath. Nevertheless, many cases who develop cancer eat their desired foods on a daily basis. If they continue on the same track, nothing is likely to change.
- If an agent compromised the thyroid to the point of incapacitating it, this person could be treated as someone who lacked a thyroid gland. Low cholesterol is a feature in cancer that's recurrent enough to be remarked by some of the mentioned authors. It's not a obstruction to adopt therapies and can be relieved. Artificial lowering of cholesterol is concerning, but it's worse when it's a consequence of disease.
- Tumors can shrink and disappear after atypical factors are introduced (or effortlessly), but it doesn't mean that it would be easy to reproduce these effects.
- It's not necessary to follow protocols to recover, but these try to incorporate what generally works. Without knowing each case individually, we have to base on the generalization.
“Plant-based diets can include animal products, they're just not major components.”
Right, but I think a diet that includes an abundance of both plants and animal foods would fare better long-term for the majority than a diet of predominantly plants or predominantly animal foods.
“Nevertheless, many cases who develop cancer eat their desired foods on a daily basis. If they continue on the same track, nothing is likely to change.”
Because it’s not solely about food. That’s why I suggest looking beyond dietary interventions when disease has manifested, and used the example of spontaneous healing doing joyful activities. The idea is to shift our energy from a state of dis-ease (heaviness) to one of ease (lightness) so just eating what we crave without changing the other factors that burden us and contribute to our diseased state rarely leads to lasting health, IME. As much as honoring cravings can be an impetus for change, it alone does not cure unhealed trauma, self-loathing, entertaining abusive relationships, working a job we hate etc. Häagen-Dazs lightened the load, but curing my condition was an inside job.
“If an agent compromised the thyroid to the point of incapacitating it, this person could be treated as someone who lacked a thyroid gland. Low cholesterol is a feature in cancer that's recurrent enough to be remarked by some of the mentioned authors. It's not an obstruction to adopt therapies and can be relieved. Artificial lowering of cholesterol is concerning, but it's worse when it's a consequence of disease.”
Thankfully, my dad’s cholesterol isn’t low. It only drops too low when consuming a diet of predominantly plants and normalizes on a more balanced ratio of plant and animal foods.
“Tumors can shrink and disappear after atypical factors are introduced (or effortlessly), but it doesn't mean that it would be easy to reproduce these effects.”
I agree, for those who struggle to let go. There’s fear in the unknown, especially when the unknown involves things that we are told lead to disease and when historically we’ve been taught to suppress our desires—some don’t even know what brings them joy or even think they deserve it, they’ve been in the struggle for so long—and spontaneous healing/curing “incurable” diseases isn’t something we often hear about outside of religious, spiritual and alternative communities. It exists, but mainstream’s voice is the loudest.
“It's not necessary to follow protocols to recover, but these try to incorporate what generally works.”
Right, just like mainstream protocols. My dad said he won’t try alternative therapies because he only goes by “proven treatments backed by studies” and thinks “alternative therapies are quackery,” just like some think my suggestion foolish because I don’t have numerous studies on spontaneous healing as a byproduct of doing what brings us joy as proof of its efficacy. I only have my experience, the experience of others whose health improved while vacationing or falling in love, observations of children—the spontaneous healers—from my years working in childcare, and accounts of NDEs. As backwards as I think this is, given its instinct, my suggestion of doing what brings us joy as a treatment for disease requires the most of what is in short supply nowadays—faith.
I don't think that your suggestion that psychology affects physiology and appetite towards recovery is foolish, but it can take years to understand motivations, they need interpretation and it's still tricky in the end. Diet becomes a consequence and it would have to be explored anyway, as some issues with food are not evident. It's something that only part of people with cancer can afford depending on aggressiveness. For others, the best bet is to manipulate many factors (diet is one of them) based on a generalized template and adjust from there.
Another example that favors plants, but without exclusion of animal products:
"The prescribed diet for patients with pancreatic adenocarcinoma emphasizes fresh raw fruits, raw and lightly steamed vegetables, and freshly made vegetable juice daily. The diet encourages plant-based protein sources such as cereals, nuts, and seeds and whole-grain products such as whole-grain bread and brown rice. The diet allows one or two eggs daily, whole-milk yogurt daily, and fish two or three times a week but forbids all red meat or poultry. The diet is designed to provide a concentrated supply of nutrients in their natural form with all the associated cofactors."
Their presence is compatible with healing.
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@Amazoniac, I didn’t think you thought it foolish. I was talking about people like my dad. I’m not discounting the importance of diet. I just disagree that plant-based is the best option. The diet you quoted is the standard plant-based diet I see recommended not just by alternative practitioners, but by mainstream, as well. What were the patients’ diets like prior to the treatment with pancreatic enzymes, nutritional supplements, "detoxification" procedures, and an organic diet? Were they of equal quality, i.e., consisting of organic and pastured foods or were they more like a standard western diet? What I typically see is a person develops a disease, in this case cancer, on a standard western diet and then follows a plant-based diet consisting of real food and improves, at least in the short-term. This is not proof to me that a plant-based diet is more healing than a diet equally abundant in both organic and pastured plant and animal foods, especially when I know far more people who have had long-term success with the latter than the former.
In my recovery, I’m a soldier at war, I have broken down walls
I defined, I designed, my recovery
In the sound of the sea, in the oceans of me
I defined, I designed, my recovery ~ James Arthur -
@Amazoniac, I didn’t think you thought it foolish. I was talking about people like my dad. I’m not discounting the importance of diet. I just disagree that plant-based is the best option. The diet you quoted is the standard plant-based diet I see recommended not just by alternative practitioners, but by mainstream, as well. What were the patients’ diets like prior to the treatment with pancreatic enzymes, nutritional supplements, "detoxification" procedures, and an organic diet? Were they of equal quality, i.e., consisting of organic and pastured foods or were they more like a standard western diet? What I typically see is a person develops a disease, in this case cancer, on a standard western diet and then follows a plant-based diet consisting of real food and improves, at least in the short-term. This is not proof to me that a plant-based diet is more healing than a diet equally abundant in both organic and pastured plant and animal foods, especially when I know far more people who have had long-term success with the latter than the former.
I shared to reinforce how recurrent this pattern is between cancer therapists who consider diet an important and manipulable factor.
Intuition was likely a determinant to what people were eating before treatment, although some might have added a leaf of lettuce and a slice of tomato on occasion to make meals healthy. To not intervene with their core choices, we'd be left with those changes in the quality of ingredients. Take someone who eats a lot of meat and some bread by preference, do you expect that improving the quality of each would be superior to what has been proposed by the mentioned experimenters?
The experimenters may arrive on these therapeutic diets under mainstream influence, but they refine it over time based on results. For a guy like Gerson, who advocated raw liver juice, there would be no problem to incorporate more animal products in the diet had they worked, until they prevailed. Example:
"In Paris, I tried seven cases and I had three results. One of the cases was an older man. He had a cancer of the cecum where the colon starts, 70 years old. Another case was a lady from Armenia. This was a very interesting case. I had to work against the whole family. There were many physicians in the family, and I had plenty of trouble. But, anyway, I came through in that case. She had cancer of the breast which regrew. Every time the family insisted that she was "so much down." She weighed only 78 pounds. She was skin and bones and they wanted me to give her egg yolks. I gave her small amounts of egg yolks—the cancer regrew. Then they insisted that I give her meat, raw chopped meat. I gave her this and the cancer regrew. The third time, they wanted me to give her some oil. I gave her the oil and the third time the cancer regrew. But, anyway, three times I could eliminate the cancer again and cure. And still I had no idea what cancer was. If somebody asked me about the theory, just what it was I was doing, I had to answer, "I don't really know myself."
And imagine the degree of simplification of protocols in not having to go through the hassle of elaborate plant preparation.
I find it unlikely that they would complicate their approaches with something that leads to worse outcomes in spite of being open to trying alternatives.
Nevertheless, how often do we read observations of positive effects associated with animal products consumption in cancer? Most of them are either neutral or negative, perhaps with a few exceptions (such as some dairy products). But when it comes to plant foods, we start to find neutral to positive effects far more often.
I can only congratulate you for going from Prismacolor to Applegate.
