cancer
-
@Jennifer I have found that high amounts of THC shrink almost all tumors and can fix cancer. You need around 1 gram a day for a month or so. See CannabisHealthRadio.com and listen to some of the success stories. I’ve witnessed a number of them myself on various Facebook groups.
You can use suppositories (rectal) which is what we have done (with a family member with cancer.) It doesn’t get you high, just mildly tranquilized but no problem working or driving or functioning.
I am pretty much convinced this is the way to go for anyone with cancer. I haven’t found a cancer that won’t respond. I know some people have found it doesn’t work. But I wonder if they used THC, and how much they used. It has to be THC, not CBD, and a very high amount.
Rectal suppositories gets the THC right into the interstitium, every cell in the body is bathed in it.
-
Amazing. Thank you for sharing, @Ecstatic_Hamster. I’ll listen to the success stories, for sure. Thyroid and Progest-E have been effective, too. My mum used both to treat her cancer.
-
Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Jennifer,
We can find negative reactions to anything. These therapeutic diets are not infallible, but I bet that plant-based options would fare better in comparison to animal-based ones if they were compared in a group of volunteers. As Lejeboca pointed out, they also help to sensitize cancer cells to conventional treatments. Livingstone-Wheeler program would be another example that adopts them. I recently came across a team implementing Budwig's protocol, but they changed it to emphasize the restriction of animal products. Your dad can be an exception, but don't discard plant-based approaches altogether, they can serve as a backup plan after some adjustments to suit him.
Rodent's suggestion is good considering that you need something simple. You might find relevant information by Rick Simpson (major advocate of cannabis extract).
- Repurposing of Bromocriptine for Cancer Therapy (Ray's suggestion)
-
@Jennifer those are good. And should be used. We did many things, including Bengston healing which is fantastic. But now I know cancer tumors are easily dealt with. You can put THC on a melanoma and watch it disappear with no scar, even.
-
@Amazoniac said in cancer:
Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Jennifer,
We can find negative reactions to anything. These therapeutic diets are not infallible, but I bet that plant-based options would fare better in comparison to animal-based ones if they were compared in a group of volunteers. As Lejeboca pointed out, they also help to sensitize cancer cells to conventional treatments. Livingstone-Wheeler program would be another example that adopts them. I recently came across a team implementing Budwig's protocol, but they changed it to emphasize the restriction of animal products. Your dad can be an exception, but don't discard plant-based approaches altogether, they can serve as a backup plan after some adjustments to suit him.
Rodent's suggestion is good considering that you need something simple. You might find relevant information by Rick Simpson (major advocate of cannabis extract).
- Repurposing of Bromocriptine for Cancer Therapy (Ray's suggestion)
Sorry for taking so long to respond. So many spinning plates…
Yes, we can find negative reactions to anything, but I personally would bet on a combination of plant and animal options faring better just from pleasure alone, however, such a balance is a hard sell in a world of extremes where the no pain, no gain mindset dominates, as if we couldn’t possibly achieve health without sacrificing our happiness in the process and yet, it is joy sprung from a deep love and respect for ourselves and our lives that I believe is needed to not only cure disease, but prevent it from ever manifesting in our bodies. Whatever food feeds our soul, taken without any guilt, is the most life giving IMO, but we fight conflicting and fearful messages daily and those messages become the beliefs we adopt, and belief is a powerful thing.
Plants are promoted in mainstream as healthy and animal foods, especially fatty ones, are often vilified so the volunteers would most likely have preexisting beliefs surrounding the two going into the study, and beliefs have been shown to affect outcomes. It’s actually the belief in a cure that protocols instill in those who have been handed a death sentence that I believe is the main thing that makes them healing, however, setting that aside, if going purely by science, the evidence from studies I’ve seen on gut morphology indicate that the human digestive system is that of a frugivore’s and faunivore’s so I can’t imagine animal foods being less conducive to healing than veggies and grains.
From a purely scientific standpoint, even if I could convince my dad to follow a plant-based protocol again, I wouldn’t dare try. IMO, it’s contraindicated for someone like him who has a tendency toward dangerously low cholesterol so putting him on a diet that has been shown to reduce cholesterol because of the belief that cancer cells must be starved, as if they are somehow separate from us, is not something I could do in good conscience. And at the risk of sounding like one of Grant’s and Garret’s followers, there’s the added issue of the carotenoids abundant in plant-based diets potentially worsening his thyroid function that can’t easily be rectified with a thyroid supplement because thyroid supplements lower cholesterol. On Dr. Esselstyn’s low-fat, plant-based program, my dad’s total cholesterol was down to 90.
In my experience, some people are disempowered by protocols, finding them highly restrictive, overly complicated, joyless and expensive. I have a juicing setup with a 50 lb Amish made press, lab equipment and chemicals, enema bags, medical devices, a library of books and a supplement graveyard from my Natural Hygiene, Gerson, Budwig, RBTI and Dr. Morse days, the cost of which could have afforded me a converted Sprinter van to travel the coast and find myself a part of the living instead of the dying. People facing disease need a reason to live more than ever, and when life brings into your awareness people whose bodies were riddled with lemon-sized tumors that shrunk by 70% within days doing nothing more than consuming ice cream and dancing in celebration of their life, it’s hard to reconcile with the notion that one has to follow strict protocols to overcome cancer or any other disease. For some, letting go is the cure.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
-
@Ecstatic_Hamster, does Bengston healing require one believe in the method for it to work? I saw an energy healer based on a practitioner’s recommendation, but experienced nothing from it, however, the idea of someone else healing me when I believe we have the capacity to heal ourselves didn’t sit well with me so I was essentially a non-believer.
-
@Ecstatic_Hamster, does Bengston healing require one believe in the method for it to work? I saw an energy healer based on a practitioner’s recommendation, but experienced nothing from it, however, the idea of someone else healing me when I believe we have the capacity to heal ourselves didn’t sit well with me so I was essentially a non-believer.
No not at all. It works on mice and rats and dogs and cats. No belief at all needed and skepticism probably is much better.
-
@Amazoniac said in cancer:
Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Jennifer,
We can find negative reactions to anything. These therapeutic diets are not infallible, but I bet that plant-based options would fare better in comparison to animal-based ones if they were compared in a group of volunteers. As Lejeboca pointed out, they also help to sensitize cancer cells to conventional treatments. Livingstone-Wheeler program would be another example that adopts them. I recently came across a team implementing Budwig's protocol, but they changed it to emphasize the restriction of animal products. Your dad can be an exception, but don't discard plant-based approaches altogether, they can serve as a backup plan after some adjustments to suit him.
Rodent's suggestion is good considering that you need something simple. You might find relevant information by Rick Simpson (major advocate of cannabis extract).
- Repurposing of Bromocriptine for Cancer Therapy (Ray's suggestion)
Sorry for taking so long to respond. So many spinning plates…
Yes, we can find negative reactions to anything, but I personally would bet on a combination of plant and animal options faring better just from pleasure alone, however, such a balance is a hard sell in a world of extremes where the no pain, no gain mindset dominates, as if we couldn’t possibly achieve health without sacrificing our happiness in the process and yet, it is joy sprung from a deep love and respect for ourselves and our lives that I believe is needed to not only cure disease, but prevent it from ever manifesting in our bodies. Whatever food feeds our soul, taken without any guilt, is the most life giving IMO, but we fight conflicting and fearful messages daily and those messages become the beliefs we adopt, and belief is a powerful thing.
Plants are promoted in mainstream as healthy and animal foods, especially fatty ones, are often vilified so the volunteers would most likely have preexisting beliefs surrounding the two going into the study, and beliefs have been shown to affect outcomes. It’s actually the belief in a cure that protocols instill in those who have been handed a death sentence that I believe is the main thing that makes them healing, however, setting that aside, if going purely by science, the evidence from studies I’ve seen on gut morphology indicate that the human digestive system is that of a frugivore’s and faunivore’s so I can’t imagine animal foods being less conducive to healing than veggies and grains.
From a purely scientific standpoint, even if I could convince my dad to follow a plant-based protocol again, I wouldn’t dare try. IMO, it’s contraindicated for someone like him who has a tendency toward dangerously low cholesterol so putting him on a diet that has been shown to reduce cholesterol because of the belief that cancer cells must be starved, as if they are somehow separate from us, is not something I could do in good conscience. And at the risk of sounding like one of Grant’s and Garret’s followers, there’s the added issue of the carotenoids abundant in plant-based diets potentially worsening his thyroid function that can’t easily be rectified with a thyroid supplement because thyroid supplements lower cholesterol. On Dr. Esselstyn’s low-fat, plant-based program, my dad’s total cholesterol was down to 90.
In my experience, some people are disempowered by protocols, finding them highly restrictive, overly complicated, joyless and expensive. I have a juicing setup with a 50 lb Amish made press, lab equipment and chemicals, enema bags, medical devices, a library of books and a supplemental graveyard from my Natural Hygiene, Gerson, Budwig, RBTI and Dr. Morse days, the cost of which could have afforded me a converted Sprinter van to travel the coast and find myself a part of the living instead of the dying. People facing disease need a reason to live more than ever, and when life brings into your awareness people whose bodies were riddled with lemon-sized tumors that shrunk by 70% within days doing nothing more than consuming ice cream and dancing in celebration of their life, it’s hard to reconcile with the notion that one has to follow strict protocols to overcome cancer or any other disease. For some, letting go is the cure.
Jennifer, some comments:
- Plant-based diets can include animal products, they're just not major components.
- Cravings are more reliable for the short-term. Different conditions can make people intolerant to certain foods, but they eat them anyway in spite of being shocked in the aftermath. Nevertheless, many cases who develop cancer eat their desired foods on a daily basis. If they continue on the same track, nothing is likely to change.
- If an agent compromised the thyroid to the point of incapacitating it, this person could be treated as someone who lacked a thyroid gland. Low cholesterol is a feature in cancer that's recurrent enough to be remarked by some of the mentioned authors. It's not a obstruction to adopt therapies and can be relieved. Artificial lowering of cholesterol is concerning, but it's worse when it's a consequence of disease.
- Tumors can shrink and disappear after atypical factors are introduced (or effortlessly), but it doesn't mean that it would be easy to reproduce these effects.
- It's not necessary to follow protocols to recover, but these try to incorporate what generally works. Without knowing each case individually, we have to base on the generalization.
-
@Ecstatic_Hamster do you have a recommendation on what product to use for that?
-
@Ecstatic_Hamster said in cancer:
@Jennifer those are good. And should be used. We did many things, including Bengston healing which is fantastic. But now I know cancer tumors are easily dealt with. You can put THC on a melanoma and watch it disappear with no scar, even.
Product recommendation?
-
@Ecstatic_Hamster said in cancer:
@Jennifer those are good. And should be used. We did many things, including Bengston healing which is fantastic. But now I know cancer tumors are easily dealt with. You can put THC on a melanoma and watch it disappear with no scar, even.
Product recommendation?
You look for FECO, which is full extract cannabis oil, with very high THC. You can make it at home but it’s easier to buy it, if you can afford it. It can be US$35 per gram for high quality FECO. Cancer requires 1 gram per day, so it can be a bit expensive, but it works in a month or so, and then only a maintenance dose is needed.
You can buy it here
https://oglabsgenetics.com/#!/High-THC-Oil/c/76164081
I have no affiliation with them, but I have found they faithfully delivered and communicated with people I know who ordered from them. Mike Wise is a good person.
You will get VERY VERY VERY high unless you use rectal suppositories, in which case you will not get high (much or at all) and they are super effective going into the lymphatic system almost immediately.
-
@Amazoniac said in cancer:
@Amazoniac said in cancer:
Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Jennifer,
We can find negative reactions to anything. These therapeutic diets are not infallible, but I bet that plant-based options would fare better in comparison to animal-based ones if they were compared in a group of volunteers. As Lejeboca pointed out, they also help to sensitize cancer cells to conventional treatments. Livingstone-Wheeler program would be another example that adopts them. I recently came across a team implementing Budwig's protocol, but they changed it to emphasize the restriction of animal products. Your dad can be an exception, but don't discard plant-based approaches altogether, they can serve as a backup plan after some adjustments to suit him.
Rodent's suggestion is good considering that you need something simple. You might find relevant information by Rick Simpson (major advocate of cannabis extract).
- Repurposing of Bromocriptine for Cancer Therapy (Ray's suggestion)
Sorry for taking so long to respond. So many spinning plates…
Yes, we can find negative reactions to anything, but I personally would bet on a combination of plant and animal options faring better just from pleasure alone, however, such a balance is a hard sell in a world of extremes where the no pain, no gain mindset dominates, as if we couldn’t possibly achieve health without sacrificing our happiness in the process and yet, it is joy sprung from a deep love and respect for ourselves and our lives that I believe is needed to not only cure disease, but prevent it from ever manifesting in our bodies. Whatever food feeds our soul, taken without any guilt, is the most life giving IMO, but we fight conflicting and fearful messages daily and those messages become the beliefs we adopt, and belief is a powerful thing.
Plants are promoted in mainstream as healthy and animal foods, especially fatty ones, are often vilified so the volunteers would most likely have preexisting beliefs surrounding the two going into the study, and beliefs have been shown to affect outcomes. It’s actually the belief in a cure that protocols instill in those who have been handed a death sentence that I believe is the main thing that makes them healing, however, setting that aside, if going purely by science, the evidence from studies I’ve seen on gut morphology indicate that the human digestive system is that of a frugivore’s and faunivore’s so I can’t imagine animal foods being less conducive to healing than veggies and grains.
From a purely scientific standpoint, even if I could convince my dad to follow a plant-based protocol again, I wouldn’t dare try. IMO, it’s contraindicated for someone like him who has a tendency toward dangerously low cholesterol so putting him on a diet that has been shown to reduce cholesterol because of the belief that cancer cells must be starved, as if they are somehow separate from us, is not something I could do in good conscience. And at the risk of sounding like one of Grant’s and Garret’s followers, there’s the added issue of the carotenoids abundant in plant-based diets potentially worsening his thyroid function that can’t easily be rectified with a thyroid supplement because thyroid supplements lower cholesterol. On Dr. Esselstyn’s low-fat, plant-based program, my dad’s total cholesterol was down to 90.
In my experience, some people are disempowered by protocols, finding them highly restrictive, overly complicated, joyless and expensive. I have a juicing setup with a 50 lb Amish made press, lab equipment and chemicals, enema bags, medical devices, a library of books and a supplemental graveyard from my Natural Hygiene, Gerson, Budwig, RBTI and Dr. Morse days, the cost of which could have afforded me a converted Sprinter van to travel the coast and find myself a part of the living instead of the dying. People facing disease need a reason to live more than ever, and when life brings into your awareness people whose bodies were riddled with lemon-sized tumors that shrunk by 70% within days doing nothing more than consuming ice cream and dancing in celebration of their life, it’s hard to reconcile with the notion that one has to follow strict protocols to overcome cancer or any other disease. For some, letting go is the cure.
Jennifer, some comments:
- Plant-based diets can include animal products, they're just not major components.
- Cravings are more reliable for the short-term. Different conditions can make people intolerant to certain foods, but they eat them anyway in spite of being shocked in the aftermath. Nevertheless, many cases who develop cancer eat their desired foods on a daily basis. If they continue on the same track, nothing is likely to change.
- If an agent compromised the thyroid to the point of incapacitating it, this person could be treated as someone who lacked a thyroid gland. Low cholesterol is a feature in cancer that's recurrent enough to be remarked by some of the mentioned authors. It's not a obstruction to adopt therapies and can be relieved. Artificial lowering of cholesterol is concerning, but it's worse when it's a consequence of disease.
- Tumors can shrink and disappear after atypical factors are introduced (or effortlessly), but it doesn't mean that it would be easy to reproduce these effects.
- It's not necessary to follow protocols to recover, but these try to incorporate what generally works. Without knowing each case individually, we have to base on the generalization.
“Plant-based diets can include animal products, they're just not major components.”
Right, but I think a diet that includes an abundance of both plants and animal foods would fare better long-term for the majority than a diet of predominantly plants or predominantly animal foods.
“Nevertheless, many cases who develop cancer eat their desired foods on a daily basis. If they continue on the same track, nothing is likely to change.”
Because it’s not solely about food. That’s why I suggest looking beyond dietary interventions when disease has manifested, and used the example of spontaneous healing doing joyful activities. The idea is to shift our energy from a state of dis-ease (heaviness) to one of ease (lightness) so just eating what we crave without changing the other factors that burden us and contribute to our diseased state rarely leads to lasting health, IME. As much as honoring cravings can be an impetus for change, it alone does not cure unhealed trauma, self-loathing, entertaining abusive relationships, working a job we hate etc. Häagen-Dazs lightened the load, but curing my condition was an inside job.
“If an agent compromised the thyroid to the point of incapacitating it, this person could be treated as someone who lacked a thyroid gland. Low cholesterol is a feature in cancer that's recurrent enough to be remarked by some of the mentioned authors. It's not an obstruction to adopt therapies and can be relieved. Artificial lowering of cholesterol is concerning, but it's worse when it's a consequence of disease.”
Thankfully, my dad’s cholesterol isn’t low. It only drops too low when consuming a diet of predominantly plants and normalizes on a more balanced ratio of plant and animal foods.
“Tumors can shrink and disappear after atypical factors are introduced (or effortlessly), but it doesn't mean that it would be easy to reproduce these effects.”
I agree, for those who struggle to let go. There’s fear in the unknown, especially when the unknown involves things that we are told lead to disease and when historically we’ve been taught to suppress our desires—some don’t even know what brings them joy or even think they deserve it, they’ve been in the struggle for so long—and spontaneous healing/curing “incurable” diseases isn’t something we often hear about outside of religious, spiritual and alternative communities. It exists, but mainstream’s voice is the loudest.
“It's not necessary to follow protocols to recover, but these try to incorporate what generally works.”
Right, just like mainstream protocols. My dad said he won’t try alternative therapies because he only goes by “proven treatments backed by studies” and thinks “alternative therapies are quackery,” just like some think my suggestion foolish because I don’t have numerous studies on spontaneous healing as a byproduct of doing what brings us joy as proof of its efficacy. I only have my experience, the experience of others whose health improved while vacationing or falling in love, observations of children—the spontaneous healers—from my years working in childcare, and accounts of NDEs. As backwards as I think this is, given its instinct, my suggestion of doing what brings us joy as a treatment for disease requires the most of what is in short supply nowadays—faith.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
-
-
-
@Amazoniac said in cancer:
@Amazoniac said in cancer:
Thank you for all the information @Amazoniac and @Lejeboca. I appreciate it.
I would never crush you, Gustavo. Haha! You’re only trying to help. Yes, I do believe in following intuition and cravings, but I don't have much say in the matter anyway. My dad is only 68 and of sound mind so the choice is his. I’ve had many conversations with him about biochemistry, physiology and prostate cancer, and knowing how the medical establishment failed my mum and I, he's fully aware of the potential downsides of conventional medicine, yet he’s firm in his decision to follow doctor's orders and it’s impossible to convince him otherwise, especially when his mother overcame far more aggressive cancers twice, both via conventional treatments, and lived to 96.
In regards to plant-based diets, no doubt they have been successful in treating cancer, but having spent over 20 years in the plant-based community, I know many horror stories and my ailing family members who followed plant-based protocols (Gerson Therapy, Arnold Ehret’s Mucusless Diet Healing System, Dr. Morse’s protocol) deteriorated and/or died. In contrast, my mum consumed a diet consisting of milk, cheese, eggs, meat, buttered sourdough bread, ice cream, chocolate, coffee and all natural blueberry soda for 6 weeks leading up to her hysterectomy and when the surgeons went to remove her uterus, they were shocked to find that the cancer that had invaded the surrounding tissue was gone and she didn’t require further treatment. Anyhow, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
Jennifer,
We can find negative reactions to anything. These therapeutic diets are not infallible, but I bet that plant-based options would fare better in comparison to animal-based ones if they were compared in a group of volunteers. As Lejeboca pointed out, they also help to sensitize cancer cells to conventional treatments. Livingstone-Wheeler program would be another example that adopts them. I recently came across a team implementing Budwig's protocol, but they changed it to emphasize the restriction of animal products. Your dad can be an exception, but don't discard plant-based approaches altogether, they can serve as a backup plan after some adjustments to suit him.
Rodent's suggestion is good considering that you need something simple. You might find relevant information by Rick Simpson (major advocate of cannabis extract).
- Repurposing of Bromocriptine for Cancer Therapy (Ray's suggestion)
Sorry for taking so long to respond. So many spinning plates…
Yes, we can find negative reactions to anything, but I personally would bet on a combination of plant and animal options faring better just from pleasure alone, however, such a balance is a hard sell in a world of extremes where the no pain, no gain mindset dominates, as if we couldn’t possibly achieve health without sacrificing our happiness in the process and yet, it is joy sprung from a deep love and respect for ourselves and our lives that I believe is needed to not only cure disease, but prevent it from ever manifesting in our bodies. Whatever food feeds our soul, taken without any guilt, is the most life giving IMO, but we fight conflicting and fearful messages daily and those messages become the beliefs we adopt, and belief is a powerful thing.
Plants are promoted in mainstream as healthy and animal foods, especially fatty ones, are often vilified so the volunteers would most likely have preexisting beliefs surrounding the two going into the study, and beliefs have been shown to affect outcomes. It’s actually the belief in a cure that protocols instill in those who have been handed a death sentence that I believe is the main thing that makes them healing, however, setting that aside, if going purely by science, the evidence from studies I’ve seen on gut morphology indicate that the human digestive system is that of a frugivore’s and faunivore’s so I can’t imagine animal foods being less conducive to healing than veggies and grains.
From a purely scientific standpoint, even if I could convince my dad to follow a plant-based protocol again, I wouldn’t dare try. IMO, it’s contraindicated for someone like him who has a tendency toward dangerously low cholesterol so putting him on a diet that has been shown to reduce cholesterol because of the belief that cancer cells must be starved, as if they are somehow separate from us, is not something I could do in good conscience. And at the risk of sounding like one of Grant’s and Garret’s followers, there’s the added issue of the carotenoids abundant in plant-based diets potentially worsening his thyroid function that can’t easily be rectified with a thyroid supplement because thyroid supplements lower cholesterol. On Dr. Esselstyn’s low-fat, plant-based program, my dad’s total cholesterol was down to 90.
In my experience, some people are disempowered by protocols, finding them highly restrictive, overly complicated, joyless and expensive. I have a juicing setup with a 50 lb Amish made press, lab equipment and chemicals, enema bags, medical devices, a library of books and a supplemental graveyard from my Natural Hygiene, Gerson, Budwig, RBTI and Dr. Morse days, the cost of which could have afforded me a converted Sprinter van to travel the coast and find myself a part of the living instead of the dying. People facing disease need a reason to live more than ever, and when life brings into your awareness people whose bodies were riddled with lemon-sized tumors that shrunk by 70% within days doing nothing more than consuming ice cream and dancing in celebration of their life, it’s hard to reconcile with the notion that one has to follow strict protocols to overcome cancer or any other disease. For some, letting go is the cure.
Jennifer, some comments:
- Plant-based diets can include animal products, they're just not major components.
- Cravings are more reliable for the short-term. Different conditions can make people intolerant to certain foods, but they eat them anyway in spite of being shocked in the aftermath. Nevertheless, many cases who develop cancer eat their desired foods on a daily basis. If they continue on the same track, nothing is likely to change.
- If an agent compromised the thyroid to the point of incapacitating it, this person could be treated as someone who lacked a thyroid gland. Low cholesterol is a feature in cancer that's recurrent enough to be remarked by some of the mentioned authors. It's not a obstruction to adopt therapies and can be relieved. Artificial lowering of cholesterol is concerning, but it's worse when it's a consequence of disease.
- Tumors can shrink and disappear after atypical factors are introduced (or effortlessly), but it doesn't mean that it would be easy to reproduce these effects.
- It's not necessary to follow protocols to recover, but these try to incorporate what generally works. Without knowing each case individually, we have to base on the generalization.
“Plant-based diets can include animal products, they're just not major components.”
Right, but I think a diet that includes an abundance of both plants and animal foods would fare better long-term for the majority than a diet of predominantly plants or predominantly animal foods.
“Nevertheless, many cases who develop cancer eat their desired foods on a daily basis. If they continue on the same track, nothing is likely to change.”
Because it’s not solely about food. That’s why I suggest looking beyond dietary interventions when disease has manifested, and used the example of spontaneous healing doing joyful activities. The idea is to shift our energy from a state of dis-ease (heaviness) to one of ease (lightness) so just eating what we crave without changing the other factors that burden us and contribute to our diseased state rarely leads to lasting health, IME. As much as honoring cravings can be an impetus for change, it alone does not cure unhealed trauma, self-loathing, entertaining abusive relationships, working a job we hate etc. Häagen-Dazs lightened the load, but curing my condition was an inside job.
“If an agent compromised the thyroid to the point of incapacitating it, this person could be treated as someone who lacked a thyroid gland. Low cholesterol is a feature in cancer that's recurrent enough to be remarked by some of the mentioned authors. It's not an obstruction to adopt therapies and can be relieved. Artificial lowering of cholesterol is concerning, but it's worse when it's a consequence of disease.”
Thankfully, my dad’s cholesterol isn’t low. It only drops too low when consuming a diet of predominantly plants and normalizes on a more balanced ratio of plant and animal foods.
“Tumors can shrink and disappear after atypical factors are introduced (or effortlessly), but it doesn't mean that it would be easy to reproduce these effects.”
I agree, for those who struggle to let go. There’s fear in the unknown, especially when the unknown involves things that we are told lead to disease and when historically we’ve been taught to suppress our desires—some don’t even know what brings them joy or even think they deserve it, they’ve been in the struggle for so long—and spontaneous healing/curing “incurable” diseases isn’t something we often hear about outside of religious, spiritual and alternative communities. It exists, but mainstream’s voice is the loudest.
“It's not necessary to follow protocols to recover, but these try to incorporate what generally works.”
Right, just like mainstream protocols. My dad said he won’t try alternative therapies because he only goes by “proven treatments backed by studies” and thinks “alternative therapies are quackery,” just like some think my suggestion foolish because I don’t have numerous studies on spontaneous healing as a byproduct of doing what brings us joy as proof of its efficacy. I only have my experience, the experience of others whose health improved while vacationing or falling in love, observations of children—the spontaneous healers—from my years working in childcare, and accounts of NDEs. As backwards as I think this is, given its instinct, my suggestion of doing what brings us joy as a treatment for disease requires the most of what is in short supply nowadays—faith.
I don't think that your suggestion that psychology affects physiology and appetite towards recovery is foolish, but it can take years to understand motivations, they need interpretation and it's still tricky in the end. Diet becomes a consequence and it would have to be explored anyway, as some issues with food are not evident. It's something that only part of people with cancer can afford depending on aggressiveness. For others, the best bet is to manipulate many factors (diet is one of them) based on a generalized template and adjust from there.
Another example that favors plants, but without exclusion of animal products:
"The prescribed diet for patients with pancreatic adenocarcinoma emphasizes fresh raw fruits, raw and lightly steamed vegetables, and freshly made vegetable juice daily. The diet encourages plant-based protein sources such as cereals, nuts, and seeds and whole-grain products such as whole-grain bread and brown rice. The diet allows one or two eggs daily, whole-milk yogurt daily, and fish two or three times a week but forbids all red meat or poultry. The diet is designed to provide a concentrated supply of nutrients in their natural form with all the associated cofactors."
Their presence is compatible with healing.
-
@Amazoniac, I didn’t think you thought it foolish. I was talking about people like my dad. I’m not discounting the importance of diet. I just disagree that plant-based is the best option. The diet you quoted is the standard plant-based diet I see recommended not just by alternative practitioners, but by mainstream, as well. What were the patients’ diets like prior to the treatment with pancreatic enzymes, nutritional supplements, "detoxification" procedures, and an organic diet? Were they of equal quality, i.e., consisting of organic and pastured foods or were they more like a standard western diet? What I typically see is a person develops a disease, in this case cancer, on a standard western diet and then follows a plant-based diet consisting of real food and improves, at least in the short-term. This is not proof to me that a plant-based diet is more healing than a diet equally abundant in both organic and pastured plant and animal foods, especially when I know far more people who have had long-term success with the latter than the former.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
-
@Amazoniac, I didn’t think you thought it foolish. I was talking about people like my dad. I’m not discounting the importance of diet. I just disagree that plant-based is the best option. The diet you quoted is the standard plant-based diet I see recommended not just by alternative practitioners, but by mainstream, as well. What were the patients’ diets like prior to the treatment with pancreatic enzymes, nutritional supplements, "detoxification" procedures, and an organic diet? Were they of equal quality, i.e., consisting of organic and pastured foods or were they more like a standard western diet? What I typically see is a person develops a disease, in this case cancer, on a standard western diet and then follows a plant-based diet consisting of real food and improves, at least in the short-term. This is not proof to me that a plant-based diet is more healing than a diet equally abundant in both organic and pastured plant and animal foods, especially when I know far more people who have had long-term success with the latter than the former.
I shared to reinforce how recurrent this pattern is between cancer therapists who consider diet an important and manipulable factor.
Intuition was likely a determinant to what people were eating before treatment, although some might have added a leaf of lettuce and a slice of tomato on occasion to make meals healthy. To not intervene with their core choices, we'd be left with those changes in the quality of ingredients. Take someone who eats a lot of meat and some bread by preference, do you expect that improving the quality of each would be superior to what has been proposed by the mentioned experimenters?
The experimenters may arrive on these therapeutic diets under mainstream influence, but they refine it over time based on results. For a guy like Gerson, who advocated raw liver juice, there would be no problem to incorporate more animal products in the diet had they worked, until they prevailed. Example:
"In Paris, I tried seven cases and I had three results. One of the cases was an older man. He had a cancer of the cecum where the colon starts, 70 years old. Another case was a lady from Armenia. This was a very interesting case. I had to work against the whole family. There were many physicians in the family, and I had plenty of trouble. But, anyway, I came through in that case. She had cancer of the breast which regrew. Every time the family insisted that she was "so much down." She weighed only 78 pounds. She was skin and bones and they wanted me to give her egg yolks. I gave her small amounts of egg yolks—the cancer regrew. Then they insisted that I give her meat, raw chopped meat. I gave her this and the cancer regrew. The third time, they wanted me to give her some oil. I gave her the oil and the third time the cancer regrew. But, anyway, three times I could eliminate the cancer again and cure. And still I had no idea what cancer was. If somebody asked me about the theory, just what it was I was doing, I had to answer, "I don't really know myself."
And imagine the degree of simplification of protocols in not having to go through the hassle of elaborate plant preparation.
I find it unlikely that they would complicate their approaches with something that leads to worse outcomes in spite of being open to trying alternatives.
Nevertheless, how often do we read observations of positive effects associated with animal products consumption in cancer? Most of them are either neutral or negative, perhaps with a few exceptions (such as some dairy products). But when it comes to plant foods, we start to find neutral to positive effects far more often.
I can only congratulate you for going from Prismacolor to Applegate.
-
@Amazoniac said in cancer:
@Amazoniac, I didn’t think you thought it foolish. I was talking about people like my dad. I’m not discounting the importance of diet. I just disagree that plant-based is the best option. The diet you quoted is the standard plant-based diet I see recommended not just by alternative practitioners, but by mainstream, as well. What were the patients’ diets like prior to the treatment with pancreatic enzymes, nutritional supplements, "detoxification" procedures, and an organic diet? Were they of equal quality, i.e., consisting of organic and pastured foods or were they more like a standard western diet? What I typically see is a person develops a disease, in this case cancer, on a standard western diet and then follows a plant-based diet consisting of real food and improves, at least in the short-term. This is not proof to me that a plant-based diet is more healing than a diet equally abundant in both organic and pastured plant and animal foods, especially when I know far more people who have had long-term success with the latter than the former.
I shared to reinforce how recurrent this pattern is between cancer therapists who consider diet an important and manipulable factor.
Intuition was likely a determinant to what people were eating before treatment, although some might have added a leaf of lettuce and a slice of tomato on occasion to make meals healthy. To not intervene with their core choices, we'd be left with those changes in the quality of ingredients. Take someone who eats a lot of meat and some bread by preference, do you expect that improving the quality of each would be superior to what has been proposed by the mentioned experimenters?
The experimenters may arrive on these therapeutic diets under mainstream influence, but they refine it over time based on results. For a guy like Gerson, who advocated raw liver juice, there would be no problem to incorporate more animal products in the diet had they worked, until they prevailed. Example:
"In Paris, I tried seven cases and I had three results. One of the cases was an older man. He had a cancer of the cecum where the colon starts, 70 years old. Another case was a lady from Armenia. This was a very interesting case. I had to work against the whole family. There were many physicians in the family, and I had plenty of trouble. But, anyway, I came through in that case. She had cancer of the breast which regrew. Every time the family insisted that she was "so much down." She weighed only 78 pounds. She was skin and bones and they wanted me to give her egg yolks. I gave her small amounts of egg yolks—the cancer regrew. Then they insisted that I give her meat, raw chopped meat. I gave her this and the cancer regrew. The third time, they wanted me to give her some oil. I gave her the oil and the third time the cancer regrew. But, anyway, three times I could eliminate the cancer again and cure. And still I had no idea what cancer was. If somebody asked me about the theory, just what it was I was doing, I had to answer, "I don't really know myself."
And imagine the degree of simplification of protocols in not having to go through the hassle of elaborate plant preparation.
I find it unlikely that they would complicate their approaches with something that leads to worse outcomes in spite of being open to trying alternatives.
Nevertheless, how often do we read observations of positive effects associated with animal products consumption in cancer? Most of them are either neutral or negative, perhaps with a few exceptions (such as some dairy products). But when it comes to plant foods, we start to find neutral to positive effects far more often.
I can only congratulate you for going from Prismacolor to Applegate.
I can’t answer that with confidence because I can’t say I agree that intuition was likely a determinant—and a fear and guilt free one at that, since that’s a key point to unburdening ourselves and healing—given we are regularly bombarded with health and dietary propaganda. What I can say is I don’t believe meat and wheat are inherently disease promoting.
I don’t doubt Gerson’s findings, but I know plenty that contradict them. For instance, Dr. Morse found that any plant other than fruit would make his patients’ tumors grow, and Anita Moorjani’s cancer went into remission on an Ayurvedic protocol abundant in dairy and again on a Chinese medicine protocol abundant in meat, then while following a plant-based protocol she developed lemon-sized tumors down her spine and died, then came back to life and had a spontaneous healing while consuming ice cream. Then there’s my mum’s positive experience with a dairy-based diet, and I had another family member whose tumor grew to the size of a soft-ball on a Gerson diet and shrunk when he was put on a beef and rice diet temporarily to stop the chronic diarrhea the Gerson diet was causing. There’s also the positive accounts I’ve read from people following the Milk Cure and the Carnivore diet. There are a series of laboratory and animal studies showing that trans-vaccenic acid, a long-chain fatty acid found in the meat and dairy of grazing ruminants, promoted the destruction of certain types of cancer cells so perhaps that’s a factor?
By Applegate, are you referring to my hot dog bender back in February? If so, plot twist—my diet has been plant-based/vegetarian since March. These days, Chiquita would be a more fitting sponsor.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
-
Gerson is too hard to follow for most people.
I'm also not sure about it. There are plenty of stories of people who were on it and got sicker and died. It seems cultish to me.
-
@Amazoniac said in cancer:
@Amazoniac, I didn’t think you thought it foolish. I was talking about people like my dad. I’m not discounting the importance of diet. I just disagree that plant-based is the best option. The diet you quoted is the standard plant-based diet I see recommended not just by alternative practitioners, but by mainstream, as well. What were the patients’ diets like prior to the treatment with pancreatic enzymes, nutritional supplements, "detoxification" procedures, and an organic diet? Were they of equal quality, i.e., consisting of organic and pastured foods or were they more like a standard western diet? What I typically see is a person develops a disease, in this case cancer, on a standard western diet and then follows a plant-based diet consisting of real food and improves, at least in the short-term. This is not proof to me that a plant-based diet is more healing than a diet equally abundant in both organic and pastured plant and animal foods, especially when I know far more people who have had long-term success with the latter than the former.
I shared to reinforce how recurrent this pattern is between cancer therapists who consider diet an important and manipulable factor.
Intuition was likely a determinant to what people were eating before treatment, although some might have added a leaf of lettuce and a slice of tomato on occasion to make meals healthy. To not intervene with their core choices, we'd be left with those changes in the quality of ingredients. Take someone who eats a lot of meat and some bread by preference, do you expect that improving the quality of each would be superior to what has been proposed by the mentioned experimenters?
The experimenters may arrive on these therapeutic diets under mainstream influence, but they refine it over time based on results. For a guy like Gerson, who advocated raw liver juice, there would be no problem to incorporate more animal products in the diet had they worked, until they prevailed. Example:
"In Paris, I tried seven cases and I had three results. One of the cases was an older man. He had a cancer of the cecum where the colon starts, 70 years old. Another case was a lady from Armenia. This was a very interesting case. I had to work against the whole family. There were many physicians in the family, and I had plenty of trouble. But, anyway, I came through in that case. She had cancer of the breast which regrew. Every time the family insisted that she was "so much down." She weighed only 78 pounds. She was skin and bones and they wanted me to give her egg yolks. I gave her small amounts of egg yolks—the cancer regrew. Then they insisted that I give her meat, raw chopped meat. I gave her this and the cancer regrew. The third time, they wanted me to give her some oil. I gave her the oil and the third time the cancer regrew. But, anyway, three times I could eliminate the cancer again and cure. And still I had no idea what cancer was. If somebody asked me about the theory, just what it was I was doing, I had to answer, "I don't really know myself."
And imagine the degree of simplification of protocols in not having to go through the hassle of elaborate plant preparation.
I find it unlikely that they would complicate their approaches with something that leads to worse outcomes in spite of being open to trying alternatives.
Nevertheless, how often do we read observations of positive effects associated with animal products consumption in cancer? Most of them are either neutral or negative, perhaps with a few exceptions (such as some dairy products). But when it comes to plant foods, we start to find neutral to positive effects far more often.
I can only congratulate you for going from Prismacolor to Applegate.
I can’t answer that with confidence because I can’t say I agree that intuition was likely a determinant—and a fear and guilt free one at that, since that’s a key point to unburdening ourselves and healing—given we are regularly bombarded with health and dietary propaganda. What I can say is I don’t believe meat and wheat are inherently disease promoting.
I don’t doubt Gerson’s findings, but I know plenty that contradict them. For instance, Dr. Morse found that any plant other than fruit would make his patients’ tumors grow, and Anita Moorjani’s cancer went into remission on an Ayurvedic protocol abundant in dairy and again on a Chinese medicine protocol abundant in meat, then while following a plant-based protocol she developed lemon-sized tumors down her spine and died, then came back to life and had a spontaneous healing while consuming ice cream. Then there’s my mum’s positive experience with a dairy-based diet, and I had another family member whose tumor grew to the size of a soft-ball on a Gerson diet and shrunk when he was put on a beef and rice diet temporarily to stop the chronic diarrhea the Gerson diet was causing. There’s also the positive accounts I’ve read from people following the Milk Cure and the Carnivore diet. There are a series of laboratory and animal studies showing that trans-vaccenic acid, a long-chain fatty acid found in the meat and dairy of grazing ruminants, promoted the destruction of certain types of cancer cells so perhaps that’s a factor?
By Applegate, are you referring to my hot dog bender back in February? If so, plot twist—my diet has been plant-based/vegetarian since March. These days, Chiquita would be a more fitting sponsor.
thank you for the info on the Gerson diet.
I'm also struck by the similarity in some ways between Gerson's diet and Kempner's diet, you know?
