Oxalobacter formigens after guts nuked by antibiotics. Sources? Possibilities?

CrumblingCookie

@CurmudgeonApple said in Malassezia nuking protocol:

Peat might have had gut permeability from his recreational use of antibiotics. Even a tiny dosage of a tetracyline can annihilate an entire population of niacin forming bacteria and oxalobacter. There is no such thing as a "safe" amount of antibiotic use IMO and i would be generally leery of anything Peat had to say about the gut.

My guts have been severely nuked by antibiotics against clostridia, especially wrt to all the anaerobic strains. One of the absolutely needed (not just beneficial, but needed) anaerobic strains which appears especially sensitive is oxalobacter formigens. I now have hyperoxaluria, which I may or may not have had before. O.formigens likely finds necessary counterparts for its interplay in anaerobic strains of which even less is known.

A normal=physiological gut colonisation rate is reported to lie between 7,6x10^6 to 2,3x10^8 colony-forming-units (CFU) per gramme of stool. Which, also in comparison to other microbiota, a substantial amount.
This is said to provide degradation of 5-8 mmol/gramme/hour of oxalate in the gut.

How would you go about a reestablishment of O. formigens?

There seem to be no credible probitiotics available for purchase ("PRO Lab" and "Oxalo" were reported to contain no live Oxf [10.1016/j.urology.2014.11.013], "Ocheck" and "Oxbact" don't seem great either).

I have tried nearly all OTC probiotic products there are to no benefit or even further detriment. Their composition of bifidos, lactobacilli or even questionable enterococcus or escherichia just seem both very silly and inappropriate to supply into the upper GI system and totally lack the more diverse anaerobic fringe strains like Ox.f.

I've been thinking of how it could be possible to reintroduce it naturally. Any ideas?

list itemWould it be present in or on specific natural raw foods? On any particular kinds of fruit or vegetable? In or on fruits with a low oxalate content - or on such with a high content?

Ox.f. is dependant on oxalate as obligatory substrate for its survival. Provision of too much/too high concentrations of oxalate on the other hand make Ox.f. actually die off. So I don't know about raw almonds or cocoa or spinach or berries etc. being beneficial. Steamed/heated produce of these will certainly be the absolute worst one could do.
With Ox.f. being anaerobic, I have doubts of it being on the surface of raw produce.
But then, how would one ever get Ox.f. in the first place, e.g. as an infant, apart from eating other's people or animals crap or getting a stool transplant up one's backside?

Please help.

yerrag

@CrumblingCookie

I would first assume that bacteria has not been totally eliminated, as total elimination is not something easy to do. A small remnant colony may still exist.

The problem with certain antibiotics is that they can lead target bacteria to morph into a form that is more resistant in the form of cell wall deficient bacteria. When not dependent on having a cell wall to survive, these bacteria are more resistant and more virulent, and can lead to a microbiome where fungal forms increase their dominance.

This leads further to the loss of balance in the microbiome and more dysbiosis and opportunities for infection.

Use of natural substances available in nature that are known for their antifungal properties may help as a start. Taking turpentine orally, for example. This would help change the microbiome towards a dominance by bacteria instead of fungal forms.

I believe many diseases attributed to putative viruses are simply fungal forms, as something said to be invisible bears the stigma of mystery, and mystery always carries with it the fear of the unknown, of which snake oil doctors like to engage in for their business of parasitism of the masses of fearful and superstitious masses.

Another avenue worth exploring is aromatherapy, on the use of essential oils, especially use of suppositories with blends tailored to fit the suspected pathogens in play. Since essential oils are composed of primary and many secondary metabolites, they have various pathways of action that make them much less subject to pathogenic resistance, in contrast to the single mode of action of antibiotics, which pathogens can easily build resistance to.

Of course, there is the use of fecal transplants but this is one I would consider only out of desperation. I would rather that I share a glass of water with my pet cat or dog, in the hope that I can get some of the bacteria from them. But if the bacteria I want is an obligated anaerobe, it would be hard to obtain that bacteria this way.