Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard
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Why would it work any less on the scalp? It's not like the calcification is impenetrable and everywhere. Diclofenac gel is designed to penetrate skin and relieve pain caused by inflammation. Something is causing inflammation/calcification of scalps which leads to baldness, so if you take away the inflammation with an effective NSAID, it makes perfect sense hair would regrow. Maybe it's causing the scalp to loosen, because of the reduced inflammation.
I doubt many people have tried it for hair regrowth because it's for arthritis. Which is always promising.
I'm gonna add it to the list of things to try. Sounds very promising.
Looks like you can just buy it off amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Arthritis-Diclofenac-Extra-Strength-Anti-inflammatory-Treatment/dp/B09FYC526N
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@Hearthfire I might just be being dense but even if the solution got under the calcification and then stimulated the follicle into normal operation, how does the hair grow through the calcified scalp?
I've always assumed that this is the missing piece of the puzzle, I see tons of stories of fully bald people achieving micro regrowth across the scalp but the hairs always stay stunted and are sparse. Just figured to me this was because all you're seeing are the few hairs that made it through the holes in the calcium sheet. I believe the calcification IS pretty much everywhere, going by my own balding scalp and several of my friends we all developed the calcified cranial ridge slowly which in turn caused the Norwood 2+ pattern balding by elevating the scalp and choking the temples, what goes bald calcifies over much like the initial cranial ridge (ever notice older REALLY bald guys have massive domeheads?), if you're balding I'd be surprised if you couldn't feel your own ridge developing.
The one or two stories I see where actual regrowth occurs address clearing scalp calcification primarily and then diet/health secondarily (fireguy although that was completely accidental and the doctor who touts constant sunlight and robust 1-2 daily scalp massage).
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@CrumblingCookie damn you seem a lot more informed and practiced than me, ever recall a period where you think you may have halted the hair loss and if so what did it?
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@DkJoe2 Scalp massage/microneedling to heal/break up the calcification.
I bet pairing scalp massage + microneedling + diclofenac gel would be quite effective. I'm already seeing results from microneedling + massage and a homemade regrowth shampoo, will definitely be trying this diclofenac gel.
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@DkJoe2 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
It's a topical NSAID, should work in theory but it would be hard to imagine this penetrating through sheet metal so if ones scalp is already calcified it's hard to see how this gets to where it needs to be. Perhaps a nice addition to someone's preexisting regimen although I have looked for years and am yet to see someone achieve any sort of meaningful regrowth with a topical alone... various topicals, red light and scalp massage together seems promising though.
Topical aspirin may be better?You make some points worth considering. "Should work in theory" and "yet to see someone achieve any sort of meaningful regrowth with a topical alone" are words to live by for hair regrowth strategies. There are so many variables in each person's deficient, non-optimal system, and certainly male pattern baldness is one of the hardest riddles to solve.
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@DavidPS said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
Thank you. I plan to try Diclofenac gel on my beard.
Good luck. Would love to hear of your success with it.
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@wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
used it and it gave me weird heart pain
right now I do topical glycolic acid once per week
literally burns off the top layer from the scalp, old collagen/fibrosis asnd scar tissue should be removed
similar to dermarolling in this regard, that it makes you replace old collagen
This is what I was afraid of, but it doesn't surprise me. Which is why I didn't run out and buy this. I wanted to, but the original commenter's warning about the blood thinning aspects made me apprehensive to try it. I am very, very sensitive to all supplements, and many foods.
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@Hearthfire said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
I'm gonna add it to the list of things to try. Sounds very promising.
Like with @DavidPS , would love to hear of your success with it. Glad you two are jumping in on it. As I've mentioned, I'm very susceptible to side effects, so at the least if you have no sides, that would be encouraging.
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thoughts on this?
"The pathogenesis of male-pattern-baldness (MPB) is the same as acne. The first step in acne is a condition called follicular-hyperkeratinization or hyperkeratosis. Simply put, this means excess skin production inside and around the hair-follicle. The next step is caused by excess sebum production, followed by P.Acnes infestation of the pilosebaceous-follicle, with subsequent inflammation. So to summarize, MPB, just like acne, is caused by four main factors: (1) follicular-hyperkeratinization, (2) excess sebum production, (3) P.Acnes, and (4) inflammation [1].
Free-IGF-1 (insulin-like-growth-factor-1) stimulates the proliferation of keratinocytes (skin cells below the scalp). As the keratinocytes mature, they migrate to the top of the scalp and become what is known as corneocytes. If all goes well, the corneocytes are supposed to be shed off the scalp in a process called apoptosis. The shedding of corneocytes or the apoptosis of corneocytes, is under the influence of IGFBP-3 (insulin-like-growth-factor-binding-protein-3) and endogenous retinoids. In men with male-pattern-baldness, they have excess free-IGF-1 and not enough IGFBP-3 [2]. The result of this is hyperkeratinization; too much skin production, and not enough skin exfoliation. This causes the hair-follicle to be blocked by excess skin. Free-IGF-1 is required for keratinocyte proliferation in humans [3] and too much IGF-1 results in hyperkeratosis [4].
Free-testosterone stimulates sebum production by converting into DHT (dihydrotestosterone) within the sebaceous-glands. Both insulin and free-IGF-1 can not only stimulate the synthesis of androgens from testicular-tissue [5] [6], but high levels of both insulin and free-IGF-1 also inhibit the livers production of SHBG (sex-hormone-binding globulin) [7] [8]. SHBG is shown to be lower in men and woman with androgenic-alopecia (MPB) [9-13]. As SHBG goes up, free-testosterone goes down. As free-testosterone goes down, less is available to be converted into DHT. With less DHT comes less sebaceous-activity.
So far I have shown that a lack of IGFBP-3 (and excess free-IGF-1) causes hyperkeratinization of hair-follicles. And that low levels of SHBG promote excess sebum production. Next, after combining these two scenarios, we get P.Acnes infiltration. You see, the excess skin is now blocking not only the hair-follicle from sprouting out of the scalp, but now, also the flow or excretion of sebum. As a consequence, the sebum builds-up within the pilosebaceous-follicle. With this anaerobic-environment caused by the hyperkeratosis and with all this trapped excess sebum, the situation becomes the perfect breeding ground for a bacterium named P.Acnes, which feeds off the trapped sebum. The body is smart and the immune-system detects these nasty critters and attacks them with inflammation [14]. This explains why Nizoral-shampoo seems to be effective in controlling the symptoms of MPB [15]. The active ingredient in Nizoral-shampoo is ketoconazole, which has been shown to kill P.Acnes [16].
The solution to this cascade of events, would be to obviously lower your free-IGF-1 activity. Lowering free-IGF-1 would, (1) decrease the IGF-1:IGFBP-3 ratio, and (2) increase SHBG, thus preventing hyperkeratinization of the hair-follicles and excess sebum production. Preventing hyperkeratosis and sebum production would prevent P.acnes infestation and the subsequent inflammation that follows.
So how does one lower free-IGF-1 levels? Studies are consistent in showing that a vegan-diet causes both a decrease in IGF-1 and an increase in SHBG [17-31]. Many of these studies indicate that vegans have higher SHBG and lower IGF-1 despite the fact they are consuming high-fat diets, like eating lots of nuts or avocados. I personally believe that an extremely-low-fat vegan diet is optimal, due to the fact that dietary-fat causes insulin-resistance. Insulin-resistance causes high-insulin and IGF-1 in the blood. I also believe that fructose should be limited as much as possible. Fructose readily converts into fat in the liver, in a process called de-novo-lipogenesis and once again, fat paralyzes insulin-action, thus keeping it in the blood for extended periods of time, instead of driving glucose into the cells. Animal-protein, especially protein from dairy-products, rich in methionine, casein, and essential amino-acids seems to be the best stimulator of IGF-1. This explains why vegan-diets, low in "high-quality" protein increase SHBG and decrease IGF-1 regardless of fat content. With that stated I personally believe with all of my heart, that you would get the best results with a diet consisting only of beans, whole-grains and vegetables. Nuts and fruit (fat and sugar) should be eaten rarely.
Avoiding dairy-products is of huge importance! Nothing increases free-IGF-1 more than dairy-products; this has been consistently shown over and over again in the scientific-literature. And this should come as no surprise, considering the purpose of milk is to stimulate rapid-growth, development and maturity of the newborn. Dairy-products also contain DHT precursors [32] [33] and potent estrogens [34-36].
After over 30 years of nutritional dogma barking over and over again that "diet has nothing to do with acne". Recent research has proven beyond a doubt, that diet does affect acne and that dairy-products and high-fat, sugar-laden processed-food are the largest culprits [37-45]. And since the pathology of MPB and acne are identical, any type of diet that promotes acne has the potential to promote MPB in genetically-predisposed people.
Eating a low-fat, low-fructose, high-fiber vegan-diet high in complex-carbohydrates should stop the progression of MPB hormonally. However this is unlikely to get rid of all the follicular-hyperkeratinization that has already occurred over time. To reverse hyperkeratosis, exfoliate the scalp and regrow "lost" hair, I highly suggest using skin peels topically. Alpha-hydroxy-acids are shown to diminish corneocyte cohesion, induce exfoliation and reverse hyperkeratosis [46]. This should promote regrowth.
So to rehash or recap everything said here: a high level of free-IGF-1 (caused by eating a high-fat, high-protein, rich western-diet) causes follicular-hyperkeratinization and down-regulation of SHBG. Low SHBG correlates with the metabolic-syndrome [47-51] and promotes excess sebum production. Excess sebum is trapped, along with the hair-follicle, beneath the excess skin (produced by over-expression of IGF-1), this gives rise to P.Acnes; a bacterium that feeds off sebum and generates inflammation from the immune-system. Eating a diet consisting of beans, whole-grains and vegetables will drastically decrease IGF-1 and increase SHBG, preventing any further progression of MPB. Glycolic-acid used topically will reverse the hyperkeratosis already present and promote regrowth.
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@Mossy can you link the article with the comment?
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@wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
thoughts on this?
"The pathogenesis of male-pattern-baldness (MPB) is the same as acne. The first step in acne is a condition called follicular-hyperkeratinization or hyperkeratosis. Simply put, this means excess skin production inside and around the hair-follicle. The next step is caused by excess sebum production, followed by P.Acnes infestation of the pilosebaceous-follicle, with subsequent inflammation. So to summarize, MPB, just like acne, is caused by four main factors: (1) follicular-hyperkeratinization, (2) excess sebum production, (3) P.Acnes, and (4) inflammation [1].
Free-IGF-1 (insulin-like-growth-factor-1) stimulates the proliferation of keratinocytes (skin cells below the scalp). As the keratinocytes mature, they migrate to the top of the scalp and become what is known as corneocytes. If all goes well, the corneocytes are supposed to be shed off the scalp in a process called apoptosis. The shedding of corneocytes or the apoptosis of corneocytes, is under the influence of IGFBP-3 (insulin-like-growth-factor-binding-protein-3) and endogenous retinoids. In men with male-pattern-baldness, they have excess free-IGF-1 and not enough IGFBP-3 [2]. The result of this is hyperkeratinization; too much skin production, and not enough skin exfoliation. This causes the hair-follicle to be blocked by excess skin. Free-IGF-1 is required for keratinocyte proliferation in humans [3] and too much IGF-1 results in hyperkeratosis [4].
Free-testosterone stimulates sebum production by converting into DHT (dihydrotestosterone) within the sebaceous-glands. Both insulin and free-IGF-1 can not only stimulate the synthesis of androgens from testicular-tissue [5] [6], but high levels of both insulin and free-IGF-1 also inhibit the livers production of SHBG (sex-hormone-binding globulin) [7] [8]. SHBG is shown to be lower in men and woman with androgenic-alopecia (MPB) [9-13]. As SHBG goes up, free-testosterone goes down. As free-testosterone goes down, less is available to be converted into DHT. With less DHT comes less sebaceous-activity.
So far I have shown that a lack of IGFBP-3 (and excess free-IGF-1) causes hyperkeratinization of hair-follicles. And that low levels of SHBG promote excess sebum production. Next, after combining these two scenarios, we get P.Acnes infiltration. You see, the excess skin is now blocking not only the hair-follicle from sprouting out of the scalp, but now, also the flow or excretion of sebum. As a consequence, the sebum builds-up within the pilosebaceous-follicle. With this anaerobic-environment caused by the hyperkeratosis and with all this trapped excess sebum, the situation becomes the perfect breeding ground for a bacterium named P.Acnes, which feeds off the trapped sebum. The body is smart and the immune-system detects these nasty critters and attacks them with inflammation [14]. This explains why Nizoral-shampoo seems to be effective in controlling the symptoms of MPB [15]. The active ingredient in Nizoral-shampoo is ketoconazole, which has been shown to kill P.Acnes [16].
The solution to this cascade of events, would be to obviously lower your free-IGF-1 activity. Lowering free-IGF-1 would, (1) decrease the IGF-1:IGFBP-3 ratio, and (2) increase SHBG, thus preventing hyperkeratinization of the hair-follicles and excess sebum production. Preventing hyperkeratosis and sebum production would prevent P.acnes infestation and the subsequent inflammation that follows.
So how does one lower free-IGF-1 levels? Studies are consistent in showing that a vegan-diet causes both a decrease in IGF-1 and an increase in SHBG [17-31]. Many of these studies indicate that vegans have higher SHBG and lower IGF-1 despite the fact they are consuming high-fat diets, like eating lots of nuts or avocados. I personally believe that an extremely-low-fat vegan diet is optimal, due to the fact that dietary-fat causes insulin-resistance. Insulin-resistance causes high-insulin and IGF-1 in the blood. I also believe that fructose should be limited as much as possible. Fructose readily converts into fat in the liver, in a process called de-novo-lipogenesis and once again, fat paralyzes insulin-action, thus keeping it in the blood for extended periods of time, instead of driving glucose into the cells. Animal-protein, especially protein from dairy-products, rich in methionine, casein, and essential amino-acids seems to be the best stimulator of IGF-1. This explains why vegan-diets, low in "high-quality" protein increase SHBG and decrease IGF-1 regardless of fat content. With that stated I personally believe with all of my heart, that you would get the best results with a diet consisting only of beans, whole-grains and vegetables. Nuts and fruit (fat and sugar) should be eaten rarely.
Avoiding dairy-products is of huge importance! Nothing increases free-IGF-1 more than dairy-products; this has been consistently shown over and over again in the scientific-literature. And this should come as no surprise, considering the purpose of milk is to stimulate rapid-growth, development and maturity of the newborn. Dairy-products also contain DHT precursors [32] [33] and potent estrogens [34-36].
After over 30 years of nutritional dogma barking over and over again that "diet has nothing to do with acne". Recent research has proven beyond a doubt, that diet does affect acne and that dairy-products and high-fat, sugar-laden processed-food are the largest culprits [37-45]. And since the pathology of MPB and acne are identical, any type of diet that promotes acne has the potential to promote MPB in genetically-predisposed people.
Eating a low-fat, low-fructose, high-fiber vegan-diet high in complex-carbohydrates should stop the progression of MPB hormonally. However this is unlikely to get rid of all the follicular-hyperkeratinization that has already occurred over time. To reverse hyperkeratosis, exfoliate the scalp and regrow "lost" hair, I highly suggest using skin peels topically. Alpha-hydroxy-acids are shown to diminish corneocyte cohesion, induce exfoliation and reverse hyperkeratosis [46]. This should promote regrowth.
So to rehash or recap everything said here: a high level of free-IGF-1 (caused by eating a high-fat, high-protein, rich western-diet) causes follicular-hyperkeratinization and down-regulation of SHBG. Low SHBG correlates with the metabolic-syndrome [47-51] and promotes excess sebum production. Excess sebum is trapped, along with the hair-follicle, beneath the excess skin (produced by over-expression of IGF-1), this gives rise to P.Acnes; a bacterium that feeds off sebum and generates inflammation from the immune-system. Eating a diet consisting of beans, whole-grains and vegetables will drastically decrease IGF-1 and increase SHBG, preventing any further progression of MPB. Glycolic-acid used topically will reverse the hyperkeratosis already present and promote regrowth.
There is a lot there; especially for a non-biologist, non-scientist, such as myself. I don't think there is anything new being said that anyone researching hair-loss over the last 10-20 years hasn't heard. It seems to be a continuation, in varying degrees, of opposing perspectives, which fit fairly nicely into pro-Peat and anti-Peat positions, e.g., DHT, testosterone, sugar, beans, milk, etc. are either bad or good, depending on the side.
I don't wholly discount anything being suggested, simply because it's anti-Peat — I think an open and objective mind is key — but doubts are easy and quick to surface for me, on some of these, simply because we've had enough time to put them to the test; or so it seems. I also think much of what is mentioned in your post is still up in the air — there are many variables at play, and hardly anything can be wholly discounted.
I've read throughout the years (and have done so myself) about cleaning the scalp as you're doing. My life just gets busy and I forget what I have and haven't tried, and what did or didn't work. At the time I was using a clay to do what is similar to your peels, along with red light, and I had pretty good success. So, I think I got lax and stopped worrying about my hair for a while. I do see value in cleaning the scalp and keeping the soil tilled, via acids, microneedling, etc. As for the low free-IGF-1 diet, I'm uncertain. There are so many angles and variables, I think we just have to test and test and test.
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@Hearthfire said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
@Mossy can you link the article with the comment?
I don't recall the exact article. There's a lot of fluff on the site, which doesn't stick in the mind (thankfully). I went back looking for it and couldn't find it. But, what I quoted in my first post is a direct quote of all the dialogue. The nature of the comments section on DailyMail is not conducive to a continued conversation, but arguably, if the inquirer was serious, he could've come back and continued his questioning.
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@DkJoe2
Thanks. Your reply made me get up and mix a fresh batch instead of only seeing inadequacy and failing to obtain the additional agents.
The only thing which repeatedly and reliably stopped my hair loss throughout the years was when I regularly ate lots of garlic and/or onions in my meals every day or about every other day at least. I don't know why. Maybe something about their unique sulfur compounds.
I can't remember whether MSM could mimick that or not but MSM made me feel off and I didn't like it at all. Maybe MSM's yet another idea to put into a topical.
As is betula alba tincture, btw. That felt pleasant and helped but was costly. I then procured chaga chaga instead with the intent to make a tincture out of that but I just never did. -
Found some studies that support that Diclofenac works. Minoxidil, Diclofenac, and Tea Tree Oil microemulsion worked far better than minoxidil alone.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3686323/
In their conclusion, they say this indicates that androgenic alopecia is multifactorial. I have come to that conclusion myself. I think it's a cascade effect of multiple things leading to baldness. Two big ones I think people aren't addressing enough is fungus and Demodex mites, which the tea tree oil would address. Then you have that powerful anti-inflammatory action from the Diclofenac.
You could probably achieve the same results from just applying all three at different times throughout the day.
Heres another study with pictures: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/302483501_Topical_Diclofenac_3_Gel_for_Actinic_Keratosis_May_Induce_Terminal_Hair_in_Male_Androgenetic_Alopecia_A_Report_of_Three_Cases
If it works that well for someone in their 70s who has been bald for a long time, I imagine it works much better for a young man.
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I have applied Diclofenac topically to the scalp, but the gel was too messy for me to continue the habit for a meaningful length of time. I recall using it for PGD2 inhibition.
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@Gaston This is why I think it has huge potential if done with consistency. How many people have tried this for any real length of time? Most probably quit because it's "messy". Seems like a fairly obscure thing that not many have probably tried with any real consistency for more than a few months.. The few anecdotes and studies show huge potential though.
There are tons of people who won't even stick to using minoxidil regularly because 1. it's tedious 2. it's messy, and then just stop completely because they didn't get results (because they were inconsistent), even though it's scientifically proven to work. How many more would have tried something esoteric (as far as hair regrowth treatments) like Diclofenac, it sounds much messier than minoxidil.
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@Hearthfire said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
Found some studies that support that Diclofenac works. Minoxidil, Diclofenac, and Tea Tree Oil microemulsion worked far better than minoxidil alone.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3686323/
In their conclusion, they say this indicates that androgenic alopecia is multifactorial. I have come to that conclusion myself. I think it's a cascade effect of multiple things leading to baldness. Two big ones I think people aren't addressing enough is fungus and Demodex mites, which the tea tree oil would address. Then you have that powerful anti-inflammatory action from the Diclofenac.
You could probably achieve the same results from just applying all three at different times throughout the day.
Heres another study with pictures: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/302483501_Topical_Diclofenac_3_Gel_for_Actinic_Keratosis_May_Induce_Terminal_Hair_in_Male_Androgenetic_Alopecia_A_Report_of_Three_Cases
If it works that well for someone in their 70s who has been bald for a long time, I imagine it works much better for a young man.
Nice finds. There does seem to be a connection with success against hair-loss and keeping fungus at bay, if you consider many of the anti-fungal remedies throughout the years used to fight hair-loss: tea-tree oil, castor oil, rosemary oil, peppermint oil, medicated talc (Miconazole nitrate), Nizoral, to name just some of them. At least for some, that may be a part of solving the puzzle.
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@Hearthfire said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
@Gaston This is why I think it has huge potential if done with consistency. How many people have tried this for any real length of time? Most probably quit because it's "messy". Seems like a fairly obscure thing that not many have probably tried with any real consistency for more than a few months.. The few anecdotes and studies show huge potential though.
There are tons of people who won't even stick to using minoxidil regularly because 1. it's tedious 2. it's messy, and then just stop completely because they didn't get results (because they were inconsistent), even though it's scientifically proven to work. How many more would have tried something esoteric (as far as hair regrowth treatments) like Diclofenac, it sounds much messier than minoxidil.
I am anxious to try this, but just know I'll get whatever side effects are possible. I got sides with Miconazole nitrate and Nizoral. Even so, I'll probably try Diclofenac gel.
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@wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
used it and it gave me weird heart pain
I would be curious if you've ever tried Nizoral or Miconazole and have gotten any side effects?
