Bloodwork shows elevated TPOAb (Hashimoto's disease)
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I got some bloodwork done. I'm male.
The thyroid antibody TPOAb is elevated, which indicates the autoimmune condition Hashimoto's disease apparently.
Ray said that elevated thyroid antibodies are just the body responding helpfully and intelligently to some damage occurring to the thyroid, and there doesn't have to be a lifelong "autoimmune" condition. (as opposed to the mainstream view which seems to state that the antibodies are what is causing the damage. Supposedly the body has inexplicably gone crazy and started attacking itself.)
My oral temperature in the morning averages ~96.5, rising through the day to ~98. My pulse is usually around 66 bpm during the day, I measured it once on waking up and it was 52 bpm. I tried doing the ankle relaxation test and my "half relaxation time" was 260ms as accurately as I could measure from taking a video. It appears that's actually very good. Perhaps I measured wrong!
My diet has been mostly clean from additives and seed oils for 10 years, and it has been semi-Peaty for some time except that I eat a lot of bread (sourdough) and pasta. (no iron added in either) For the last few years I haven't taken any supplements very often.
I have bloodwork from 2017 which shows my TSH was 3.29, free T3 was 3.0, free T4 (direct) was 1.48, Prolactin was 10.8, Testosterone was 581, LH was 7.2 and FSH was 10.1.
If anyone has any input I'd appreciate it
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So what causes that damage to the thyroid? I've just started researching and I've found there's a strong case against iodine. Ray was also against excessive iodine.
"iodine excess, due to extensive environmental iodine exposure in addition to poor monitoring, is currently a more frequent occurrence than iodine deficiency. Iodine excess is a precipitating environmental factor in the development of autoimmune thyroid disease. Excessive amounts of iodide have been linked to the development of autoimmune thyroiditis in humans and animals, while intrathyroidal depletion of iodine prevents disease in animal strains susceptible to severe thyroiditis. Although the mechanisms by which iodide induces thyroiditis are still unclear, several mechanisms have been proposed: (1) excess iodine induces the production of cytokines and chemokines that can recruit immunocompetent cells to the thyroid; (2) processing excess iodine in thyroid epithelial cells may result in elevated levels of oxidative stress, leading to harmful lipid oxidation and thyroid tissue injuries; and (3) iodine incorporation in the protein chain of thyroglobulin may augment the antigenicity of this molecule." "The administration of iodine can significantly enhance and accelerate, in a dose-dependent manner, the incidence of AIT, its onset, the degree of lymphocytic infiltration and the severity of damage to thyroid follicular structures"
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4139880/Apparently iodized salt is associated with an increased number of people showing elevated thyroid antibodies.
"[In Denmark] prior to iodization of salt [which started in 1998], the prevalence of anti-TPO antibody (anti-TPO-Ab) was 14.3%, but increased to 23.8% after iodization [...] In a small Italian community, voluntary iodine prophylaxis increased the incidence of anti-TPO-Ab and hypothyroidism 15 years later."
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9816468/1 teaspoon of iodized salt (which is 2325 mg sodium) is 312 mcg iodine. The iodine RDA is 150 mcg. Restaurants and processed foods typically don't use iodized salt, but I am health conscious so I mostly eat at home, using iodized salt!
There is also a lot of iodine in dairy now, not for natural reasons, but because it is added to the cows' feed (often as ethylenediamine dihydroiodide), and because iodophor is used to disinfect milking equipment. There is iodophor in your milk!
In Denmark, 1 cup of milk has 27mcg iodine.
In Norway, 1 cup of organic milk in the summer (so the cows are probably eating pasture only) has 14 mcg iodine.
But in the US, 1 cup of normal milk has 84 mcg. (56% of the RDA)
Chickens are also given extra iodine in their feed (probably in the form of calcium iodate) and so 1 egg has 26 mcg iodine. (I don't know what the natural level for eggs is.)
Regarding iodine added to animal feed: "The iodine content of food of animal origin, if produced taking account of the currently authorised maximum content of iodine in feed, would represent a substantial risk to high consumers. The risk would originate primarily from the consumption of milk and to a minor extent from eggs. The UL for adults (600 ”g/day) and for toddlers (200 ”g/day) would be exceeded by a factor of 2 and 4, respectively." (Europe's upper limit is 600mcg apparently, but the USA's upper limit is 1100mcg)
https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/3100Maybe iodine naturally present in food isn't bad even in a moderate excess and there's something especially wrong with the "unnatural" types of iodine that they add to salt, animal feed, and that they use to disinfect dairy. Maybe the body attacks the thyroid, when the thyroid takes in these "weird" types of iodine.
I will definitely stop using iodized salt and see what happens on my next bloodwork. I'm considering stopping dairy (and eggs?) too.
What do you think? I've never heard anyone, mainstream or alt-health, talk about this! (aside from Ray being against too much iodine, but he must not have known about the milk)
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@insufferable Two things that might help.
One, I think haidut had said that ray said that hi tpo not usually something to be concerned about. It stays hi after an event that spikes it has elapsed.
Two, best not to supplement with iodine. I get non iodine salt. Ray had said that it can actually be anti thyroid. -
@16charactersitis Thank you! I've switched to sea salt.
I'm blown away by learning that
- high iodine is well known to cause thyroid trouble
- modern diets are more likely to have excess iodine than too little
- modern dairy basically has added iodine, and is probably contaminated with sanitizer chemicals.
Is this significant?
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I would say, try to increase your selenium and boron consumption.
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Thanks! Is there anything specifically that suggests those to you?
Selenium: Cronometer says I get 230mcg, over 4x the RDA. I eat a brazil nut daily, and eggs. Should I get more?
Boron: I don't know much about boron. Quickly scanning lists of high boron foods shows a lot of plant foods like nuts that I don't eat much. So I could be low in this! -
Both are involved in the antioxidant system.
It's especially known regarding selenium but I think it's also true for boron.
Boron seems to have a particular affinity with the thyroid which is intriguing.
IMO, boron can be seen as an element that could balance the action of iodine in the thyroid.
I don't think there are papers showing an improvement of Hashimotos with boron though, as I'm not sure it has even been studied.
Keep in mind that too much could be detrimental too. -
Grapes are high in boron and so is wine.
Apples too. -
@insufferable said in Bloodwork shows elevated TPOAb (Hashimoto's disease):
Is there anything specifically that suggests those to you?
Hi,
One clue: Jean Seignalet, French immunologist, thought that this auto-immune illness could have been enhanced by a xenopathogen, an antibacterial peptide coming from a bacteria or food, passing along the intestines. This peptide is then presented by HLA-DR to T CD+ lymphocytes. An autoimmune reaction happens and inflammation is then going to dampen and attack the thyroid function. -
@insufferable selenium you can get from seafood. Also mushrooms. Just make sure theyâre well cooked. Raw mushrooms have unhealthy or toxic components that are eliminated via cooking
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Thank you for your advice everyone. Much appreciated.
Stopping iodized salt is working! My temperature has increased a bit and my mental abilities are improved. I'm tracking my temperatures daily and will probably post soon when I have more data.
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@insufferable said in Bloodwork shows elevated TPOAb (Hashimoto's disease):
There is also a lot of iodine in dairy now, not for natural reasons, but because it is added to the cows' feed (often as ethylenediamine dihydroiodide), and because iodophor is used to disinfect milking equipment. There is iodophor in your milk!
In Denmark, 1 cup of milk has 27mcg iodine.
In Norway, 1 cup of organic milk in the summer (so the cows are probably eating pasture only) has 14 mcg iodine.
But in the US, 1 cup of normal milk has 84 mcg. (56% of the RDA)
Chickens are also given extra iodine in their feed (probably in the form of calcium iodate) and so 1 egg has 26 mcg iodine. (I don't know what the natural level for eggs is.)
Regarding iodine added to animal feed: "The iodine content of food of animal origin, if produced taking account of the currently authorised maximum content of iodine in feed, would represent a substantial risk to high consumers. The risk would originate primarily from the consumption of milk and to a minor extent from eggs. The UL for adults (600 ”g/day) and for toddlers (200 ”g/day) would be exceeded by a factor of 2 and 4, respectively." (Europe's upper limit is 600mcg apparently, but the USA's upper limit is 1100mcg)
https://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/3100Maybe iodine naturally present in food isn't bad even in a moderate excess and there's something especially wrong with the "unnatural" types of iodine that they add to salt, animal feed, and that they use to disinfect dairy. Maybe the body attacks the thyroid, when the thyroid takes in these "weird" types of iodine.
I will definitely stop using iodized salt and see what happens on my next bloodwork. I'm considering stopping dairy (and eggs?) too.
What do you think? I've never heard anyone, mainstream or alt-health, talk about this! (aside from Ray being against too much iodine, but he must not have known about the milk)
If this helps ease concerns, I was diagnosed with Hashimotoâs and brought my elevated TPO level down on a (pastured) dairy-based diet. I was averaging daily at least 2 liters of milk, a few ounces of cheese and 2â3 eggs. The goats were given free choice minerals that contained kelp and in the spring would load up on it so much so that I could taste the kelp in their milkâit tasted fishy. Even still, my TPO level normalized. Iâve avoided iodized salt since before finding Rayâs work because of the anti-caking agents. I used a French Celtic salt by Eden and a sea salt by Jacobsen Salt Co., but now use Mortonâs canning & pickling salt.
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@insufferable said in Bloodwork shows elevated TPOAb (Hashimoto's disease):
Stopping iodized salt is working!
Well, you reach a staple: Too much of a good thing is bad, especially with a overreactive thyroid when it's inflamed. Adapt to your sensations.
For other readers.
If I summarize: No iodine supplement (titled 125 mcg) without taking first selenium (100- 200 mcg).
We need to make staples (10-15 days). If overreaction, stop the supplement.
Details below:Hashimoto, cruciferous & iodine
Cruciferous vegetables contain thioglucosides that are metabolized to thiocyanates. Thiocyanates compounds inhibit iodine transport and the incorporation of iodide into thyroglobulin, thus increasing TSH secretion and thyroid cells proliferation.
Here are some members of the brassicaceae family, cruciferous vegetables that includes broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, collard greens, kale, turnips, corn salad (lamb lettuce) and watercress, radish and nearly all the cabbage family (pakchoĂŻ, mustard, wasabi, etc.).
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/vegetables/vgen/cruciferous-vegetables.htm
Moderated consumption of cruciferous greens doesnât affect the thyroid function, but well if you drink a smoothie every day with such greens. Similarly, consumption of high amounts of cruciferous vegetables has been associated with increased thyroid cancer risk only in iodine-deficient areas (57). The concern has been that they may interfere with the production of thyroid hormone if you have an iodine deficiency. Those vegetables are said to be goitrogens.
So we need iodine, preferably from food, but before taking a moderate supplement of iodine, in the case of Hashimotoâs â event if we âre told not to â we have to be replenished first with selenium (55 mcg Se is the RDA). Be careful when dosing iodine as too much at once can be toxic.
However, any supplement can have an adverse reaction in an individual. So adapt yourself to the ground, how you feel. And take time to adapt: we need staples 10-15 days to adapt oneself and see the effect on thyroid. Moreover, if your thyroid is inflamed (immune reaction), youâll need antioxidants to dampen the possible overreaction (Se 200 mcg and Vit C 600 â 1 000 mg, split into 2 or 3 takes, because of half-life).
Precaution: No manganese as a supplement; only from food. No vitamin C at the same time as kelp supplement, even if it very low titled (125 mcg). No need to take it every day, especially when you eat fish or seafood.
I repeat: We have to manage to avoid a possible overreaction: Iodine is a mighty antioxidant (it protects against free radicals and peroxides), has strong bactericidal as well as antiviral and antifungal activity. No need to overstimulate a wounded organ. An unadapt dose of iodine can trigger or worsen hypothyroidism.
Finally, if you seem to react to goitrogens, you may also wish to look into SIBO, sulfur sensitivity, iodine deficiency and the CBS gene mutationâŠSources & References
*) Iodine and thyroid function
https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/food-beverages/cruciferous-vegetables#:~:text=One study in humans found,-deficient areas (57).*) Goitrogen effect of some foods
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/what-are-goitrogens-and-do-they-matter-with-hashimotos/*) Controversy of iodine in Hashimoto
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/iodine-hashimotos/
âą The controversy around iodine
âą How iodine affects Hashimotoâs
âą The sweet spot for iodine
Excerpt:
Any supplement can have an adverse reaction in an individual, and I wish this was a one-time report, but I have received countless messages like the one above, and have seen many similar reports in clients who came to me after trying high dose iodine on their own, or with other practitioners.
Initially, a person given iodine may experience more energy, but they then crash and feel worse. This is because iodine, given to a subset of people with Hashimotoâs, can make the thyroid produce more hormone initially, but unfortunately, in doing so without having enough selenium and antioxidants on board, the increased hormone production creates lots of free radicals, which can flare up the attack on the thyroid gland.
Iodine needs to be processed by the thyroid gland, and when the thyroid is inflamed, the processing of iodine will likely produce more inflammation. If you give an angry and overwhelmed organ more work to do, youâll likely see it become even angrier!
A person may feel more energetic when first starting an iodine supplement, but lab tests will reveal that their ânew energyâ is coming from the destruction of thyroid tissue, which dumps thyroid hormone into the circulation. Reports will show an elevated TSH, elevated thyroid antibodies, and in some cases, low levels of active thyroid hormones.
This is why I donât generally recommend iodine supplements to people with Hashimotoâs. I donât believe that the short-term artificial boost in energy is worth destroying your thyroid gland!*) Antioxidants are crucial to thyroid healthâŠ
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/nutrient-depletions-vi-antioxidants/#:~:text=Antioxidants are crucial to thyroid,the minerals selenium and manganese.*) Iodine has strong bactericidal as well as antiviral and antifungal activity.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8709459/
*) Role of dietary iodine and cruciferous vegetables in thyroid cancer
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3496161/
Iodine is a micronutrient necessary for human development and health. It is required for the synthesis of thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3).*) Recommended Amounts for Iodine
https://nutritionsource.hsph.harvard.edu/iodine/
RDA iodine is 150 mcg
Iodine is needed to make the thyroid hormones thyroxine and triiodothyronine, which assist with the creation of proteins and enzyme activity, as well as regulating normal metabolism.
Iodine is required in the process of formation of deiodinase (Dio) enzymes. Theyâre 4 types Dio
What is the role of deiodinase 1?
Deiodinases are important for determining intracellular thyroid hormone availability. Type 1 deiodinase (Dio1) is expressed in the liver, kidney, thyroid, and pituitary. Dio1 catalyzes outer and inner ring deiodination of T4, T3, and rT3, and, thus, can both activate and inactivate thyroid hormone. -
@Jennifer Good to know, thank you! I'm glad you had success and that it can be done!
Do you happen to know if the goats' udders and the dairy equipment were being treated with disinfectants or not?
@LucH Thank you for the detailed info. I like this article that you posted. https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/iodine-hashimotos/
From that article:
Iran: 3.2% of people had TPOAb antibodies before salt iodization, 12.5% had them after.
Minnesota: "Starting with the first decade after iodine fortification, they documented a 2,500 percent increase in Hashimotoâs disease."I guess my selenium wasn't high enough for my iodine consumption? Cronometer says I generally got 230mcg selenium, which is ~4.2x the RDA. But with high iodine, maybe I needed a lot more.
My iodine consumption a few months ago was around 982mcg, and more recently (at the time of my bloodwork) was 722mcg. Now, having removed iodized salt, my iodine is about 436mcg and things have improved a lot so far.
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@Insr said in Bloodwork shows elevated TPOAb (Hashimoto's disease):
my iodine is about 436mcg and things have improved a lot so far.
No need to be so high. I'd target 150 - 300 mcg Iodine, the lower side (125 mcg) when thyroid is inflamed. Not necessary every day. But with take of selenium first (200 mcg) in both case. When replenished, slow down Se. And adapt with long staples enough to see if you tolerate it well.
Adapt to what your body tells you.Edit: Mind iodonized salt. Not always thé right kind. It can block receptors.
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@Insr, the udders and equipment are treated with a (natural) disinfectant, yes. I donât know of any farm here that doesnât disinfect them, but the majority sell raw dairy so maybe theyâre extra cautious to prevent contamination and/or itâs a law. Iâm not sure. It will be interesting to see if your prolactin also comes down. I noticed yours is at the higher end for a man. I had in my notes that Ray said a normal range for men is 4â7. Mine averages between 10 and 11.
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Thanks LucH and Jennifer.
Yeah, I hope the prolactin comes down with improved thyroid!
