Urgent overdose (b1, prog)
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Good thinking on the manganese.
@bioenergetical Try magnesium and riboflavin.
Yes, good thinking there too. Mg as a cofactor. Riboflavin as a cofactor and because of the flavoenzymes displacement. More thoughts are a low amount of P5P as a cofactor and potassium chloride rather than sodium, and a lot of carbs/glucose to feed that PDH stimulated by thiamine. Which also synthesizes Acetyl-CoA for acetylcholine in the cytoplasma and therefore depletes choline. That's double-edged, too, because more choline may enable yet more acetylcholine.
Uridine 5′-triphosphate (UTP) acts as the preferred substrate for TPK1 for thiamine pyrophosphate synthesis needed as the cofactor for PDH activity. More uridine/cytidine would therefore increase thiamin clearance through the TCA but also exacerbate an already high PDH activity for even more CO2. Not sure about that, therefore.
Because of the sulphur moiety in thiamin it's also important to think of molybdenum for its clearance.
@cs3000 IME you can't "starve out" a thiamin-induced rise of carbohydrate metabolism. It's awful, keeps you nervous, "on edge" and incessantly irritable until you finally give in to e.g. cook and eat yet another pot of pasta after the previous two you've already had.
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I feel like the B2 only works if accompanied by niacinamide. I took B6 already, not sure about taking more cause I heard that one should be more careful with that one. I was freaking out but I stabilized for a little while. Now I can tell that I’m losing homeostasis again… getting colder and more anxious. I’ll start convulsing and freaking out soon if I don’t recover whatever nutrient I need
I felt toxic after taking B2 by itself but the niaicnamide seemed to get rid of that sensation. But I’ll have to test more
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@sushi_is_cringe
sometimes I feel that way, other times I feel like I’m done for
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I don’t know if hospitals would be able to help me in this situation. It’s just completely unconventional
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@bioenergetical in studies women took like 2g of TTFD with no bad effects reported which is way more bioavailable apparently than thiamine hcl. so lets say 2g ttfd orally is = 6g thiamine hcl orally so even if your transdermal actually absorbed 12g fully , you only really took 2x the highest tested dose. you probably just threw off your minerals , had a convulsion out of a combination of depleting something and your neuroticism (it’s obvious youre at least slightly neurotic based on your obsession with taking supplements) and now just gotta wait a bit for your body to normalize. id stop taking vitamins and just stay hydrated. my friend claims to actually have taken 4g of ttfd orally.
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@sushi_is_cringe
I’m not healthy to begin with, I’m hypothyroid (anemic technically). Not sure if that has anything to do with it
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@bioenergetical probably shouldnt take thiamine which is an iron chelator , when you are anemic. i suggest relying on food and maybe some cyproheptadine to take the edge off for the next few weeks.
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@sushi_is_cringe
no, I didn’t mean iron deficient. I’ve had health complications to begin with. That’s why I’ve been experimenting with stuff over the past years
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I’m at the hospital. Wasn’t sure if I was gonna collapse or anything. I don’t know if this was a good idea… they don’t seem to know about any of this
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I don’t know if I am iron deficient currently. It’s not like I’m craving meat
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Not sure if I’m deficient in some niche trace mineral and it’s not looking good. I’m trembling, anxious
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Sorry you're experiencing this. Chris Masterjohn has a Substack article about the potential pitfalls of high-dose thiamine supplementation. The tl;dr is that it can cause sulfur issues, cause depletion of other nutrients, or stress weaknesses/defects in your energy metabolism processes. After my own bad thiamine experiences I got a lot of nutrient testing as well as experimenting with molybdenum, etc. I'm not sure any of it helped as much as time though.
I can add more tomorrow if you are interested. Hope you are doing alright.
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too high co2 can cause shortness of breath symptoms. happened to me earlier this week. i was drinking too much sparkling water, taking b1 hcl orally, aspirin, t3. i ending up waking in the middle of my sleep but when i wanted to go back to sleep i felt like i would suffocate in my sleep from not breathing. it was scary as fuck. i stopped everything and just drank a shit ton of coconut water and sunbathing, some cyproheptadine to relax. now its gone.
check out this post
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/what-is-happening-in-a-panic-attack.16579/#post-225622"CO2 seems to be a culprit here for some people. But it's not as simple as high CO2 = panic, since bag breathing works.
That lead me to the following SA article from 2010 explains the mechanism is high acid levels in the amygdala is responsible for the fear response (demonstrated by mice with KO genes). They say CO2 increases acid levels in the the brain and most patients with a panic disorder who breathe in air with 35% CO2 (air is typically 0.04%) experience a panic attack while healthy volunteers do not. Close relatives of the people who experience panic attacks will also usually have a first time panic attack when they breathe in the high CO2 air suggesting a genetic connection. Lactate buildup also increases brain acid levels and exercise is said to make brain lactate removal more efficient, which is in line with exercises anti-anxiety effects.
Panic Attacks as a Problem of pH"
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did it deplete molybdenum?
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It sounds like anemia might be a root cause to a lot of your issues - have you had ferritin tested alongside an iron panel? I know Peat was generally anti-iron, however sufficient iron is necessary for maintaining high metabolism and keeping thyroid in check (sufficient iron is essential for thyroid hormone conversion among many others things). One paper I read noted that ferritin levels < 70 ng/ml impaired activity of iron-dependent enzymes in the cell. Unfortunately a lot of things can bring iron down, so getting ferritin tested plus the full iron panel is helpful to discern what the problem might be. Ferritin is ideally > 100 ng/ml, but not too much higher (I’d start getting concerned if it got around 150 or higher). Moving forward and regarding the bigger picture of your health, it might be helpful to first focus on getting your ferritin/iron issues resolved, and then moving onto thyroid-focused interventions if you’re still having problems.
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I don’t think iron is relevant. I have heavy metal toxicity, low glutathione status…
Right now, I’m not sure. I just know that I’m scared of eating anything. At least anything that will stimulate the metabolism or cause a displacement in nutrients. The only thing I really had today were egg yolks. Before that, I felt like I was suffocating.
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I’ve been thinking that I would die… right now I’m more stabilized. I’ve tried:
– Riboflavin
– Niacinamide
– Pyridoxine
– Biotin
– Folic Acid (unnecessary, test came high)
– B12 (unnecessary, test came fine)
– Magnesium
– Manganese
– Chromium
– Vanadium (toxic, I thought it was over)
– Vitamin E (I wanted to protect against Vanadium exposure, felt a sense of relief after taking)Haven’t tried:
– Boron
– Molybdenum -
Sometimes I actually noticed an improvement. But it only lasted shortly. I thought I was gonna be good, next thing you know… I’m thinking I’m gonna die