Kanna (Sceletium tortuosum) eliminated OCD
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I experimented with two different extracts of kanna from https://bioextracts.co.uk/. They are "Classic Sceletium Extract" and "FS5". I first tried a half-scoop of the classic extract buccally. There were some positives from it but I also got a mild headache for the entire day and didn't really like the effects overall.
After a few days, I tried a half-scoop of FS5 buccally. From this, I got a mild mood boost, a slight but noticeable and meaningful increase in energy (I have chronic fatigue, maybe undiagnosed CFS), it was a bit easier to focus on the external world (I'm usually stuck in my head most of the time, and still was while using it but to a lesser extent), and the external world looked slightly better than usual (observing more beauty in the same environment). The biggest effect for me was the elimination of my OCD by around 99% on the same day I used it. However, I seemed to get a mild headache from this extract too.
I took another dose the next day. The effects from the previous day persisted, so I don't know if the second dose really gave me any additional benefits. I still had a mild headache, so I decided to take a break from this after my second dose.
The day after, my OCD hadn't returned. It was still slightly easier to focus on the external world, but that effect seemed to have faded a bit. Fast forward to today, 6 days after my last dose of FS5, and my OCD hasn't returned. I also still have slightly more energy than before, and it's still slightly easier to focus on the external world. I've been continuing to take ginger extract and passionflower extract the whole time, so I can't exclude the possibility of a positive interaction between ginger, passionflower and FS5.
As for why it had such a positive effect on OCD, I suspect it could have something to do with PDE4D inhibition. PDE4D inhibition enhances dlPFC function, and from the linked reddit article:
- "Enhancing the dlPFC over the whole prefrontal cortex is normally more desirable because you get a more selective outcome and also you don't enhance areas such as the OFC, which can be problematic if overactive (potentially leading to conditions such as OCD) [11][12]. Enhancing the dlPFC can actually bring brain regions back into a harmonic system, for example enhancing the dlPFC through different methods has been shown to reduce OCD phenology through overriding OFC (orbitofrontal cortex) activity."
Mesembrenone, an alkaloid found in kanna, is a relatively potent PDE4 inhibitor (unfortunately also an SRI):
- "The extract was a potent blocker in 5-HT transporter binding assays (IC(50) 4.3 ฮผg/ml) and had powerful inhibitory effects on phosphodiesterase 4 (PDE4) (IC(50) 8.5 ฮผg/ml), but not other phosphodiesterases. There were no cytotoxic effects. Mesembrine was the most active alkaloid against the 5-HT transporter (K(i) 1.4 nM), while mesembrenone was active against the 5-HT transporter and PDE4 (IC(50)'s<1 ฮผM)." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21798331/
FS5 has more mesembrenone and less mesembrine than the classic extract. But these are not the only differences between the extracts, so it's possible that something other than mesembrenone (maybe an alkaloid from the "15% other alkaloids") was also having a beneficial effect on me. And of course, it could also be a specific combination of different active compounds
Classic Sceletium Extract has a total alkaloid content of 6%, out of which:
- 60% is mesembrine
- 20% is mesembrenone
- 20% is delta-7-mesembrenone
FS5 has a total alkaloid content of 5%, out of which:
- 25% is mesembrine
- 40% is mesembrenone
- 20% is delta-7-mesembrenone
- 15% are other alkaloids
Edit: I also took blue lotus extract (80% nuciferine) on the second day of using FS5. I've used the same dose of blue lotus extract once before and it didn't affect OCD much. I still wanted to mention it just in case.
Edit 12/04/2025: I recently measured how much one full scoop of FS5 is with a milligram scale. It changed with each measurement, but it was around 70 mg each time.
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Update: 15 days since my last dose of kanna and my OCD is still only around 1% of what it used to be at it's worst. It no longer disrupts my ability to function in daily life. The other effects (increased energy and ability to focus on the external world) have faded away completely or at least nearly completely. I might experiment with kanna again soon to see if I can get the other benefits back.
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@NoeticJuice ty & for the update, cool it lasted so long. and useful to see the 2 tested ur experience matches the part about mesembrine being more serotonergic. the headache fits with the pge2 increase i read probably this, its pro-inflammatory (+ the serotonin) so not good to take often but if it gives a long lasting fix great ,
did u swallow after? and how long did you keep it in mouth? also did u notice improvements leading into it with the other 2?"world," as a source of new perceptions
more https://substack.com/@cs3001"Self-organizing systems decay only if they have assimilated inertia and โ with a little support of the right kindโ the centers of degeneration can become centers of regeneration"
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@cs3000 said in Kanna (Sceletium tortuosum) eliminated OCD:
about mesembrine being more serotonergic
I recall reading that it's also a monoamine releaser
did u swallow after? and how long did you keep it in mouth?
I placed the powder between my lower lip and my gums. I refrained from swallowing for at least 30 minutes, perhaps even an hour or more. I allowed myself to swallow, drink and eat after that time period, but I didn't intentionally try to swallow the extract powder. I don't know exactly how long it took for me to get noticeable effects, but I remember that it was fairly quick. Maybe 10-30 minutes.
You can find information about different routes of administration and dosages for each from r/kanna. The post I linked to doesn't have any info about buccal administration though.
also did u notice improvements leading into it with the other 2?
I'm unsure of what you mean by this
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nice post but ws wondering if glutmte is something enhnced by pde4 then the most relevnt mechnism of ction from kv is reducing glutmte excitoxicity by incresing glutmte decrobxylse nd incresing gmm mmino butyric cid? in tht cse p5p plus mntdine (mild nmd inhibitor) could help s well (i fond mntdine better thn memntine)
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@thyroidchor27 said in Kanna (Sceletium tortuosum) eliminated OCD:
ws wondering if glutmte is something enhnced by pde4
A quick search online lead to these results:
According to the first one rolipram (a strong pde4 inhibitor) increased glutamate release. But in the other one it blocked the reduction of GABAergic inhibition induced by cocaine and restored the balance between excitation and inhibition in VTA dopamine neurons.
I haven't tried nearly all GABAergics or anti-glutamatergics, but out of the ones I've tried, only passionflower helped. And it helped a lot.
By the way, I took another dose of FS5 yesterday, this time a full scoop orally. I'll write more about my experiences later, maybe after 2 or 3 weeks after some more experimentation, but I'll already say that this is probably the best thing I've taken so far during my entire health journey.
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Other than helping with OCD, here are the effects I get from FS5:
- More than 200% increase in energy (or at least the ability to do things). But since my energy levels were extremely low to start with, I still have much less energy than most people my age.
- The world looks better. It's like the resolution and vividness increased.
- It's easier to focus on the external world. I'm not as much stuck in my own head anymore, though I still mostly am.
- I type faster. Not something I was looking to improve, but an interesting observation anyway.
- I'm more carefree
- I notice myself humming to music frequently. I don't remember doing so previously.
- I'm less sensitive to fragrances (multiple chemical sensitivity, MCS), or at least so it seems. I'd have to test it more to be sure, but I don't think I will do so intentionally.
- It's easier to maintain a good sleep schedule.
- I am more social and open. This is especially interesting because I've been diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder. It's not like I've suddenly become an extrovert, I haven't. But the thought of having a few friends doesn't seem that bad anymore.
- A weird, slightly uncomfortable feeling initially after taking it. It's hard for me to describe the feeling. But it's mild and doesn't last long so it doesn't really bother me.
I take half a scoop of FS5 and place it between my lower lip and gums. I'll avoid swallowing any saliva for at least 30 minutes, then I'll swallow the powder. I can maintain the positive effects quite well by doing this every 3 days. I take it within a few hours after waking up.
In relation to OCD, when I first took FS5, I still felt a pull to do the OCD rituals when exposed to a trigger. But it was much milder and it felt easy to choose otherwise, so that's what I did. I kept choosing otherwise, and the triggers stopped being triggers. For the most part anyway.
The mood and energy boost from Classic Sceletium Extract was greater than from FS5. However, it also seemed to make my motor control a bit worse. It didn't do it to the extent that it would be easily noticeable to an outside observer, but it was still enough to slightly lower performance in Titanfall 2. It also caused a headache and, I think, some other negative effects too. But I don't remember those that well. I only tried it once, and that was before trying FS5. Classic Sceletium Extract didn't have any significant effects on OCD.
FS5 has been the best physical tool for my wellbeing that I've come across so far. I'll keep using it for the foreseeable future.
16.5.2025 edit: I've used kanna sublingually the last few times. It seems to work just as well. If it helps with MCS, it doesn't help nearly enough.
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@NoeticJuice whats ur discord I wanna chat,
You can either reply to this message or PM me -
As I wrote before, kanna has greatly helped with OCD but it didn't eliminate it completely. After kanna, only around 1% of OCD remained. That lasted for a while. Then, after some time, it started fluctuating between 1-10% (refers to the frequency of compulsions compared to when OCD was at it's worst). At 1% it didn't matter much, but nearing 10% it got quite disturbing. I don't know for sure what caused this, but maybe it's because I stopped using passionflower some time ago.
Passionflower too, as I wrote in another post, reduced OCD. And before kanna, when I only used passionflower for OCD, it seems like OCD got slowly worse over time while using it, but I don't think passionflower's effectiveness decreased. I think it's more so that it reduced symptoms but didn't sufficiently affect some underlying processes that continued to make OCD worse. Strict PUFA restriction also seemed to reduce OCD, but to a much lesser degree than passionflower or kanna. And, like with passionflower, OCD slowly got worse even as I continued to restrict PUFA.
The OCD was largely related to the fear of death, and to words and numbers. To use one example, when I saw two words next to each other which, when their letters were counted together, amounted to 22 letters (or some other number with the digital root of 4), I'd get the thought that I'd die in some way (not going to describe in detail) if I didn't do some acts which involved calculation and repetition. I of course had no reason to believe that the thought was true, but it still lead to anxiety if I didn't do the compulsions.
But then, one night when I was reflecting on OCD, a thought occurred to me: if the fear of death is preventing me from living the kind of life I want to live, then the fear, even if it were justified, isn't worth acting on. It's better for me to risk death than to live an unfulfilling life.
As this thought came to my mind, I felt lighter, like I was freed from something, but I also felt strong anxiety. I decided that it was worth going through that anxiety. Or rather, it was more like the decision was already set, and there was no turning back.
After some time, I started feeling joy, excitement and increased energy alongside the anxiety. It was past 1:00 AM and I was sleepy when I got the thought, but after it I wasn't sleepy anymore and I couldn't sleep for a few more hours. I spent the time awake mostly listening to music, and I sang a bit too.
The next day (technically the same day) some time after I woke up, I had some anxiety. But, in a way, it didn't really bother me. I felt like it didn't matter.
I didn't feel like reading anything (usually I would read something), and I spent most of the day just listening to music. I feel like the music sounded a bit better than usual. I drew a little, and later that day I also read a bit. My perfectionism also reduced, which was evident while drawing. I felt like I was more free to just do without trying to be perfect.
There were other changes too. I used to fear spiders. That day, I saw a spider inside, but it didn't bother me. Instead, I just looked at the spider moving for a while, and I found the way it moved kind of funny.
I usually tried to have a meal every 3-4 hours. I did so because if I ate more frequently, I felt like my digestion / gut function suffered, and if I went much longer than that without food, I would feel more tired or cold. But during that day, I didn't check the time. I just ate when I felt like it, but I still probably had a meal around every 3 hours. I also wanted to walk in the nearby forest and explore places there I haven't explored yet, but it was raining and I didn't have the proper footwear for that kind of weather, so I just looked out the window instead.
That was a few days ago. I no longer have a need to act on anxiety. But there are still some automatic reactions developed from having OCD for a long time. Trigger -> reaction, without conscious involvement. Some of these happen in a split second.
To get rid of these, I have to catch them in time and stop the process, or I have to predict when they will happen and preemptively steer my mind in a different direction. To do this, I need to maintain awareness. And to maintain awareness, I need energy.
I have had some success in interrupting these processes, but my energy levels are low, so I'm not sure if I will be able to interrupt all of these processes consistently enough to eliminate them in my current state. I'm confident that, even if I can't do so now, I will be able to eliminate them once I've increased energy enough to maintain awareness.
My mental state isn't exactly the same as it was a few days ago, but it's not the same as it was before either. I feel like I've changed. And I feel like life is a bit different now too.
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I don't know if this is related, but I feel like it might be. 2-4 days before the thought in my previous post, I experienced a single day when everything felt extremely beautiful even though nothing had changed externally. Even just sitting down and eating a fruit, or seeing sunlight shine through the window, was so beautiful that I felt like crying. I don't remember if I cried from those two experiences but I do remember that I did cry more than once that day.
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@NoeticJuice
Kanna was shown to have cannabinoid CB1 activity, this could play a role in the positive benefits you experience.
