Kanna (Sceletium tortuosum) eliminated OCD
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I experimented with two different extracts of kanna from https://bioextracts.co.uk/. They are "Classic Sceletium Extract" and "FS5". I first tried 25 mg of the classic extract buccally. There were some positives from it but I also got a mild headache for the entire day and didn't really like the effects overall.
After a few days, I tried 25 mg of FS5 buccally. From this, I got a mild mood boost, a slight but noticeable and meaningful increase in energy (I have chronic fatigue, maybe undiagnosed CFS), it was a bit easier to focus on the external world (I'm usually stuck in my head most of the time, and still was while using it but to a lesser extent), and the external world looked slightly better than usual (observing more beauty in the same environment). The biggest effect for me was the elimination of my OCD by around 99% on the same day I used it. However, I seemed to get a mild headache from this extract too.
I took another 25 mg dose the next day. The effects from the previous day persisted, so I don't know if the second dose really gave me any additional benefits. I still had a mild headache, so I decided to take a break from this after my second dose.
The day after, my OCD hadn't returned. It was still slightly easier to focus on the external world, but that effect seemed to have faded a bit. Fast forward to today, 6 days after my last dose of FS5, and my OCD hasn't returned. I also still have slightly more energy than before, and it's still slightly easier to focus on the external world. I've been continuing to take ginger extract and passionflower extract the whole time, so I can't exclude the possibility of a positive interaction between ginger, passionflower and FS5.
As for why it had such a positive effect, I suspect it could have something to do with PDE4D inhibition. PDE4D inhibition enhances dlPFC function, and from the linked reddit article:
- "Enhancing the dlPFC over the whole prefrontal cortex is normally more desirable because you get a more selective outcome and also you don't enhance areas such as the OFC, which can be problematic if overactive (potentially leading to conditions such as OCD) [11][12]. Enhancing the dlPFC can actually bring brain regions back into a harmonic system, for example enhancing the dlPFC through different methods has been shown to reduce OCD phenology through overriding OFC (orbitofrontal cortex) activity."
Mesembrenone, an alkaloid found in kanna, is a relatively potent PDE4 inhibitor (unfortunately also an SRI):
- "The extract was a potent blocker in 5-HT transporter binding assays (IC(50) 4.3 μg/ml) and had powerful inhibitory effects on phosphodiesterase 4 (PDE4) (IC(50) 8.5 μg/ml), but not other phosphodiesterases. There were no cytotoxic effects. Mesembrine was the most active alkaloid against the 5-HT transporter (K(i) 1.4 nM), while mesembrenone was active against the 5-HT transporter and PDE4 (IC(50)'s<1 μM)." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21798331/
FS5 has more mesembrenone and less mesembrine than the classic extract. But these are not the only differences between the extracts, so it's possible that something other than mesembrenone (maybe an alkaloid from the "15% other alkaloids") was also having a beneficial effect on me. And of course, it could also be a specific combination of different active compounds
Classic Sceletium Extract has a total alkaloid content of 6%, out of which:
- 60% is mesembrine
- 20% is mesembrenone
- 20% is delta-7-mesembrenone
FS5 has a total alkaloid content of 5%, out of which:
- 25% is mesembrine
- 40% is mesembrenone
- 20% is delta-7-mesembrenone
- 15% are other alkaloids
Edit: I also took 100 mg of blue lotus extract (80% nuciferine) on the second day of using FS5. I've used the same dose of blue lotus extract once before and it didn't affect OCD much. I still wanted to mention it just in case.
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Update: 15 days since my last dose of kanna and my OCD is still only around 1% of what it used to be at it's worst. It no longer disrupts my ability to function in daily life. The other effects (increased energy and ability to focus on the external world) have faded away completely or at least nearly completely. I might experiment with kanna again soon to see if I can get the other benefits back.
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@NoeticJuice ty & for the update, cool it lasted so long. and useful to see the 2 tested ur experience matches the part about mesembrine being more serotonergic. the headache fits with the pge2 increase i read probably this, its pro-inflammatory (+ the serotonin) so not good to take often but if it gives a long lasting fix great ,
did u swallow after? and how long did you keep it in mouth? also did u notice improvements leading into it with the other 2?"Self-organizing systems decay only if they have assimilated inertia, and — with a little support of the right kind— the centers of degeneration can become centers of regeneration."
"world," as a source of new perceptions
https://substack.com/@cs3001 -
@cs3000 said in Kanna (Sceletium tortuosum) eliminated OCD:
about mesembrine being more serotonergic
I recall reading that it's also a monoamine releaser
did u swallow after? and how long did you keep it in mouth?
I placed the powder between my lower lip and my gums. I refrained from swallowing for at least 30 minutes, perhaps even an hour or more. I allowed myself to swallow, drink and eat after that time period, but I didn't intentionally try to swallow the extract powder. I don't know exactly how long it took for me to get noticeable effects, but I remember that it was fairly quick. Maybe 10-30 minutes.
You can find information about different routes of administration and dosages for each from r/kanna. The post I linked to doesn't have any info about buccal administration though.
also did u notice improvements leading into it with the other 2?
I'm unsure of what you mean by this
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nice post but ws wondering if glutmte is something enhnced by pde4 then the most relevnt mechnism of ction from kv is reducing glutmte excitoxicity by incresing glutmte decrobxylse nd incresing gmm mmino butyric cid? in tht cse p5p plus mntdine (mild nmd inhibitor) could help s well (i fond mntdine better thn memntine)
