Csf leak that wont heal

[healingisposs18]

@yerrag wow thank you so much! Sorry can you specify which vitamin is critical for collagen synthesis? Vitamin c? It just shows up as a smiley face

[LucH]

@healingisposs18 said in Csf leak that wont heal:

I was told by a physician many years ago I probably have ehlers danlos, which I think is contributing.

Gluten and lactose are very often poorly tolerated in EDS. Not everyone. This is likely due to the way EDS affects the gastrointestinal system, leading to increased sensitivities and intolerances.

[yerrag]

@healingisposs18 Yes. It's vitamin C.

You may want to directly ask the Ray Peat AI on follow up questions. It's been very helpful to me.

https://www.delphi.ai/ray-peat

[CrumblingCookie]

For 8 months? This is crazy.
Some vitamin C is a good thought but I would double down on supplementing pantethine (B5), P5P (B6), biotin and choline and folate. For healing and lipid sheath synthesis.

I don't hold taking T3 and T4 in good esteem in this context because it suppresses upstream TSH and TRH whereas increased TRH in the opposite would actually be promoting healing of spinal injuries AFAIK.
As for thyroid I'd rather meddle with potassium iodide to keep that Csf-production going well by the sodium iodide symporters instead of depending only on coffeine for minor symptom relief.
D3, K, Ca, Mg all seem pointless to me wrt a csf leak.
Prog or Preg I have no idea about in this context.
Sulphur compounds are another good idea, but not necessarily MSM. Anyhow the pantethine includes physiologically essential sulphur groups.
Perhaps drinking field horsetail infusion (for the soluble silicium) and some 100-200mg hyaluronic acid (<100.000kDa size) every day could be of marginal benefit.
Perhaps some red light therapy shining on your back could be of complementary healing benefit.
And this may read like a joke but is meant seriously: Be careful to never push to hard when on the toilet because that will exert pressure and reopen the leak.

[healingisposs18]

@CrumblingCookie you are absolutely right and its no joke - anything that could increase intracranial pressure including exertion while going to the bathroom is prohibited.

Can you explain more about trh?and potassium iodine i didnt understand.

Yes, 8 minths is insane and its been torture.

[sunsunsun]

silicon-maxxing

oatmeal, oat bran (high in oxalate so take with calcium source), French/green beans, non alcoholic beer, skin-on cucumbers, whole grain rices and wheats, raisins

pineapple too apparently, but it might have low absorption like bananas.

every time you eat a meal have a silicon source

[healingisposs18]

@sunsunsun interesting. You arent the first person to recommend thus to me. As much as i research, there is always more to learn.

Can you expand why on silicon? Are there safe supplements? U was under the impression that ray peat wasn't a fan.

Thank you

[CrumblingCookie]

@healingisposs18 said in Csf leak that wont heal:

Can you explain more about trh?and potassium iodine i didnt understand.

From all the above, don't focus on these two mentionings wrt to your csf leak.
The spinal fluid secretion from the choreum plexus is strongly dependent on sodium-iodide-symporters, i.e. both these minerals are transported across membranes together in glands other than the thyroid. It's a reason why iodide assists most bodily exocrine glands.
TRH helps heals spinal injuries if given shortly after e.g. accidents but I don't remember by what mechanisms exactly. IIRC it's mostly about regrowth/reconnection of separated nerves. If you're interested in this outside of your acute context you'd need to read that up for yourself.

[LucH]

@CrumblingCookie said in Csf leak that wont heal:

Can you explain more about trh?and potassium iodine i didnt understand.

Secretion of the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) is influenced by the NIS symporter
The Na + /I − symporter (NIS) is an intrinsic membrane protein that mediates the active transport of iodide into the thyroid and other tissues.

I’ve made a google search with the following words:
TRH and The spinal fluid secretion from the choroid plexus is strongly dependent on sodium-iodide-symporter

The secretion of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) by the choroid plexus is indeed influenced by the sodium-iodide symporter (NIS), though not in the way that directly relates to TRH. Here's a breakdown:

1. NIS and CSF Secretion:
    The choroid plexus, which produces CSF, contains NIS.
    NIS is primarily known for its role in transporting iodide (I-) into thyroid cells.
    While NIS is present in the choroid plexus, its role in CSF production is less direct than its role in thyroid hormone synthesis.
    NIS helps create an electrochemical gradient by transporting sodium and iodide into the cells of the choroid plexus.
    This gradient contributes to the overall ionic balance that drives water movement and CSF secretion.
    However, the precise mechanisms and the extent to which NIS contributes to CSF secretion are still under investigation.
2. TRH and CSF:
    Thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) primarily influences the release of thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) from the pituitary gland.
    TRH does not directly control NIS expression or activity in the choroid plexus.
    NIS expression in the choroid plexus is influenced by other factors, such as the overall ionic environment and potentially other hormones.
    In summary: NIS plays a role in CSF secretion by the choroid plexus, but this role is related to establishing the ionic gradients that drive fluid movement, not a direct or primary effect of TRH or thyroid hormone production.

Additional info on NIS symporters

1. Iodine as a game changer (“What does iodine do for your body?”)
   https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/3962/iodine-as-a-game-changer
   Excerpt 1
   There is the possibility of excess iodine, which may be a transient (26-40 hours) hypothyroidism as described by Dr. Brownstein in his book Iodine: Why You Need It. Why You Can't Live Without It. (7) Whenever we try to speed up the use / burning of iodine – so not leaving the TSH and the brain adjust the carburetor – there may happen a counter-reaction, due to a lack of progressiveness and the fact our NIS symporters (a kind of pump Na/I) are somewhat asleep / feel as if they were in a rut. NIS is a carrier system into all the cells, and when this system becomes deficient or lazy, due to lack of stimulation, the whole body can’t absorb the sudden amount. Deficiency of iodine may also contribute to low stomach acid and decreased ability to absorb B12 and calcium.
   If one is only diagnosing hypothyroidism based on TSH scores (as most allopaths do), one may become confused. We’d better take into account our feeling (…).
2. Understanding NIS symporters
   See &. Regulation of iodide transport (on the second reference)
   *) Iodide transport: implications for health and disease
   DOI : https://doi.org/10.1186/1687-9856-2014-8
   Pesce, L., Kopp, P. Iodide transport: implications for health and disease. Int J Pediatr Endocrinol 2014, 8.
   https://ijpeonline.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1687-9856-2014-8
   Regulation of iodide transport
   Iodide transport is dependent on the nutritional availability of iodide and on the stimulation of the thyroid stimulating hormone receptor (TSHR). Although the TSHR is constitutively active, it is susceptible to enhanced activation by TSH [31, 32]. In addition, iodide uptake and organification are inhibited by high intracellular concentrations of iodide. Other factors have been shown to regulate iodide uptake, including thyroglobulin, cytokines, growth factors and estradiol.
   *) Importance of Iodine Intake beyond the Thyroid
   https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2094-english-corner-importance-of-iodine-intake-beyond-the-thyroid#30105
   In a state of thyroid sufficiency where does iodine go to?
   Impact of NIS expression in non-thyroidal tissues
   => The Na + /I − symporter (NIS) is an intrinsic membrane protein that mediates the active transport of iodide into the thyroid and other tissues.
   *) Toxicité de l’iode – La fin d’une erreur médicale
   https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2087-toxicite-de-liode-la-fin-dune-erreur-medicale?highlight=iode
   *) Iode et iodure de potassium – À contre-courant
   https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1978-iode-et-iodure-de-potassium-a-contre-courant#28898
   => Why the hype on thyrotoxicosis of inorganic iodide?
   => Wolff-Chaikoff effect explained (protection of the brain).
   *) Hashimoto et iode
   https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1113-iode-anti-goitre-et-fluor-brome?highlight=iode
   => First take selenium before taking iodine.
   => Useful nutrients for the thyroid.
   *) La supplémentation en hormones thyroïdiennes masque la carence en iode
   https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2090-la-supplementation-en-hormones-thyroidiennes-masque-la-carence-en-iode?highlight=iode
   *) Souffrez-vous d’iodophobie ? Fatigue surrénale ?
   https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2092-souffrez-vous-diodophobie-fatigue-surrenale
   https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2092-souffrez-vous-diodophobie-fatigue-surrenale#30094
   Voir &. Zoom sur les symporteurs NIS
   Excerpt :
   Lorsqu'il y a saturation de la thyroïde (les besoins de la thyroïde sont satisfaits en 1er lieu, par priorité), les autres tissus / muscles sont alors approvisionnés, si tant est que vous ne compliquiez pas le chemin d'accès. Comprenez que les "transporteurs NIS" doivent être rééduqués (apport progressif) et que la place sur ces transporteurs / symporters est limitée (ou peut être contrariée). (12) Concurrence avec le Ca et le fer. (13)
   Les symporteurs sont en quelque sorte des récepteurs, un type de pompe qui permet l’échange NA/I (sodium / iode) sur plusieurs tissus, situés un peu partout dans le corps. Pas que pour la thyroïde, donc. Ce phénomène est capital à comprendre; car il explique les hausses parfois brutales de TSH lors d'une supplémentation massive en iode. (12)

[sunsunsun]

@healingisposs18 silicon abundance builds resilient tissue. RP didn't appreciate it at first but later admits it is necessary. that's the extent that I've seen him mention it.

The supplements aren't really worth taking. Their absorption is the same as the better food sources or liquids. You may say, who cares, you can take high doses of a supplement--- well the most popular Si supplement is the choline-stabilized Si, and to get a relevant Si dose from it you'd be hitting supplemental choline really hard, which for most people doesn't feel good. There's other forms of supplemental Si as well but I stopped investigating them since most of the foods in the list I provided above have high absorption and are just normal foods most people can include in their diet anyways.

High Si mineral waters or beer have better aborption than the supplements, actually.

An important theme around Si-abundance in nutrition is that it negates 'deficiencies' or suboptimal intakes of other nutrients. This is true for copper, specifically. As well, when ovariectomiized rats are given abundant Si in their diet, the bone-density loss that the non-Si group gets doesn't happen. So Si in abundance may also helps negate suboptimal hormones.