Ray Peat HATED manganese
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alfredoolivas said:
Tidbits on manganese toxicity. I think anyone should be concerned on consuming large amounts of it, which is easy if you are a fellow autist that is prone to consuming stupid amounts of foods like pineapple or orange juice.
"In the rat, the half-lives of 16 brain regions are between 52 and 74 days [6]."`
"Mn concentrations in the cerebrospinal fluid, however, continued to increase even at the eight week. It is possible that a slow elimination of Mn from the cerebrospinal fluid may contribute to the high level of Mn in the brain "
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@kimarunas thank you for this detailed post. An interesting and unique take worth looking into
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@kimarunas hi, answering there too for other readers, and adding as i did read a bit more about it.
Ray peat never stated that he hate manganese, there is one statement associated to him saying commun diet probably has enough if i recall correctly.
nuts and seeds can Also be high in zinc, copper, molydenum, selenium, many elements that have balancing or antagonistic effects on manganese, i have never seen someone mentionning getting symptoms associated to excess manganese from nuts, i have not experienced it either even while consuming from 400g to a kilo of nuts most days for months/years, including macadamia.
Fruits it depend wich ones, going by average values, fruits such as grapes, pinnaple, raspberries, Blackberries, strawberries have good or high amount of manganese per weight, and even higher amount per carbs/calories compare to lot of foods, These fruits are communly consumed bu fruits eaters living in northern enough climates. Other communly consumed fruits such as apple, pears, watermelon, are much lower.
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The central mechanism of manganese toxicity is producing a CoQ10 deficiency, which is the key molecule in the mitochondria, required for energy production. This mechanism is outlined in Chris Masterjohn's article: Manganese Toxicity Is a CoQ10 Deficiency
Are there other ways manganese can interact to cause stress or health problems? Is it possible he was absorbing too much manganese? If so, what would cause this?
Do any of his preferred foods or combos help chelate manganese?
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nuts and seeds can Also be high in zinc, copper, molydenum, selenium, many elements that have balancing or antagonistic effects on manganese, i have never seen someone mentionning getting symptoms associated to excess manganese from nuts, i have not experienced it either even while consuming from 400g to a kilo of nuts most days for months/years, including macadamia.
Same, I don't recall him advocating NOT eating nuts. I thought the main thread is "brazil nuts" and certain others can be good for these specific micronutrients and minerals but are not very good for much else. Personally, I rarely eat nuts or peanut butter. They're more of a winter food.
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In this article Chris Masterjohn explains how common it is to have a manganese toxicity problem because of your genetics: Iron Overload: Forget What You Thought You Knew
I used to think Chris Masterjohn was a pretty decent health writer, but that article is pure Clickbait, full of sensationist claims and outright falsehoods while presenting no evidence to back up his claims. It reads more like Grant Generaux or Garrett Smith rambling rather than a studied PhD.
This line particularly stood out-
"You can’t just donate blood. 90% of your iron is stored in your blood, but most of your manganese is stored in your liver."
First, the 90% claim isn't even true of people with normal iron status. It's more like 60-70%. In those with hemochromatosis, the percentage is far less, as iron is stored anywhere the body can put it, like the liver, skin, vital organs and such. Normal people have about 3-4 grams of iron, while people with hemochromatosis have 50 grams or more. This could put the iron in blood percentage around 5-10%, a far cry from 90%. Still, even when someone is seriously iron loaded, their blood contains about the same amount of iron as someone with normal levels. Blood donation works to remove iron because hemoglobin is a very rich source of iron, so the body starts releasing iron from wherever it's stored to make more. No idea on how this affects manganese, but his reasoning is so flawed in this quote that blood donation may indeed help to lower manganese to some degree.
Second, Masterjohn seems to only focus on the genetic component. This is a major flaw of most of the iron overload research, and people can get iron loaded simply by eating more iron. Considering many foods are now "fortified" with iron, and iron supplements are widely available, and iron is often part of common multivitamins, high iron can be an issue for many without the HFE genes. Considering the USDA puts iron comsumption in the US as historical highs over the past few decades, it's very likely most cases of high iron don't even have the HFE gene. Since Masterjohn mostly freaks out about HFE increasing manganese, his article wouldn't even apply to the vast majority of those with high iron.
Third, he seems to think the "real" issue with hemochromatosis is high manganese, and not high iron. This ignores all the published research from Weinberg, Zacharski, and Faccinni, and anecdotal stories of people seeing health improvements and relief from symptoms from undergoing an iron lowering strategy. I know I personally saw benefits like increased energy and better mood from lowering iron, mostly with blood donation and some complementary strategies like IP6. Some still have some symptoms, even after getting de-ironed, so high manganese could be a complementary issue in some cases.
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@ZackVegas hi, any idea/assumptions if blood color, Darkness/lightness, opacity/transluscence Can be indicative/associated with blood Iron content?
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@user1 To some degree, yes. The Orsense device measures hemoglobin via light sensors. When I have donated blood over the past 2 years, they have used this device to measure hemoglobin-
I don't know if you could tell much difference with the naked eye. Plus, if you see blood outside the body, it's going to be reacting with oxygen and clotting, both things that would make it darker and thicker.
Also, while people with higher iron levels tend to have higher hemoglobin, it's a very rough guideline. People with certain types of anemias can even have high iron levels. And for most people, you can raise hemoglobin levels with a B complex. During de-ironing, I actually got hemoglobin to go up while ferritin was going down by using a B Complex and/or an iron free multivitamin with the same B Vitamins.
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I dont mean to make my comment rude , but dont you think Ray would have mentioned at some point his take on manganese at least once if he hated it so much?
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i eat a lot of manganese and probably arsenic too lol
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He did bring it up a few times. In Nutrition for Women Ray Peat wrote "Manganese is needed to synthesize thyroxin, so a deficiency can interfere with thyroid function (coffee is a major source of manganese, and caffeine also stimulates the thyroid)." Pretty hard to hate manganese and drink that much coffee. The thing he warned about was supplements with big amounts of iron and manganese in them.
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