Cyproheptadine anti-stress alternatives?
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I'm looking for a substance that has roughly the same general anti-stress effects as cyproheptadine, but without the anticholinergic effect.
I generally feel amazing when I take cyproheptadine, albeit the trade off is low energy if I don't keep up carb intake. This is an acceptable trade-off for me.
What isn't an acceptable trade-off is the anticholinergic effect that makes me feel like a retard and gives me dry mouth, dry sinuses, dry eyes, gut slowness, etc.
There are some alternatives I've tried in the past and why they don't quite work:
-Metergoline: I love it but it makes me anxious that I'm burning out my dopamine receptors and going to give myself DAWS. (Is that even real?)
-Famotidine: The stomach acid suppression is an intolerable side effect
-L-theanine: it's a decent enough supplement but it's just really weak and short acting compared to Cypro
-Lisuride: Better anti-histamine than metergoline but otherwise it runs into the same issue where taking it more than once every so often is worrisome.|
-Progesterone/Pregnenolone: Rapes my digestion, paralyzes my gut completely. I bloat like a balloon, get reflux and pain, and have to stop taking it. (wtf is this? Nobody has ever been able to provide a plausible explanation for why this happens or how to fix it)
-6-keto-progesterone: Yuck. On top of only really hitting cortisol, it does so in an inelegant way that causes rebound. Also strangely uglifying. Probably some unknown enzymatic inhibition changing steroid profile.
-Mirtazapine: I got fat as fuck on this stuff. Otherwise it's actually pretty much fine. I wish it was sold in doses <15mg or in a way that would make dosing 1-5 mg realistic. This is the closest fit.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
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Hi
Describe the stress-effect you want to avoid or you suffer from. On another way than just saying you want no impact of anticholinergic side-effects. No problem with histamine? -
@LucH The antihistamine effect is a nice add on but not necessarily what I'm looking for. What I typically benefit from most I suppose is the serotonin antagonism, (and consequent lowered ACTH activity) which pushes me towards "you must eat carbs or you will be tired" which IMO is a more desirable state for healing than leaving stress hormones open as a crutch.
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@LucH I guess to answer your question better, I sometimes tend to undereat or fall back on cortisol/adrenaline. When I was on cyproheptadine (very low doses) for a couple months I ate like a monster but I did have resolution of some long standing issues which I think were being held up in "healing" by stress hormones.
Mirtazapine does seem like a natural fit here but I worry about it potentially being indirectly estrogenic by causing leptin resistance... (leptin stimulates aromatase) but otherwise it is sort of like cypro without the anticholinergic effect.
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I like famotidine before bed. I don’t notice low stomach acid problems at night.
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I sometimes tend to undereat or fall back on cortisol/adrenaline. When I was on cyproheptadine (very low doses) for a couple months I ate like a monster but I did have resolution of some long standing issues which I think were being held up in "healing" by stress hormones.
One clue, part of the problem.
Chronic stress and metabolic transition: In the face of sustained stress, the prolonged secretion of cortisol and catecholamines (adrenaline, noradrenaline) impairs insulin sensitivity and disrupts glycemic homeostasis. Glycogen stores—particularly in the liver and muscles—are no longer sufficient to meet the increased energy demand. A sustained elevation in pro-inflammatory cytokines (TNF-α, IL-1β, IL-6) amplifies this metabolic alarm signal (a prolonged "fight-or-flight" response).Another one:
Stress and inflammation = lack of B6 PLP. Have you recently tested homocysteine (blood test). + HbA1c to see how you manage glycemia.Another one:
If you eat pasta, bread, rice and potato at 2 meals with wine, and drink fuit juice or soft drink, eat a snack at midday, you probably lack B1. You need between 1.2 - 1.6 mg + 0.5 mg for each 1 000 K/cal. -
Another clue for excess cortisol
To lower stress hormones:
Salt! And Gelatin. (Search the forum for salt and also Co2)
Ray Peat: Salt, energy, metabolic rate, and longevity.
https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/salt.shtmlLiver function is really important. If your liver isn't working very well it won't be able to store enough sugar to get you through the night. If you run out of stored sugar, adrenaline spikes followed by cortisol.
From a preceeding conversation with Mostlylurking:
Thiamine (B1) is very helpful in multiple ways. Also magnesium. Magnesium bisglycinate.
A thiamine deficiency blocks the ability of the body to burn sugar (glucose) for energy (ATP). When the cells are starved for glucose, whether from low blood sugar or something blocking the burning of glucose in the mitochondria (thiamine deficiency or hypothyroidism) stress hormones rise.
NB: If you get an insulin spike, it won't match / it won't do the job: Stress reaction.
NB: I Always try to get 50% from glucose and 50 % from fructose.
Target breakfast like this:
2 peaces of fruit; one of which is low in carbs. Eat first 50 g (2 oz.) ham or cheese or 2 eggs from pastured chickens (w3/w6 balance). Take 6-8 macadamia nuts if you need more fat rich in MUFA, but very, very low in PUFA.
I'd rather drink green tea to avoid side effects (lower action than coffee). 2 or 3 cups a day, every 4-5 hours.
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