/BBG/ - BODYBUILDING GENERAL
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I was a big fanboy for Mentzer for a few years. I have two books from him. There are a few issues with his theories. The big one is that the model of training adaptation he uses is severely outdated, even at the time of his HD1 book. The model it uses is the one-factor theory, which was created by a psychiatrist, if I recall correctly, and it basically suggests that you give a stimulus, recover, adapt, and repeat. This suggests a totally linear progression. This is inaccurate, and the actual one we use is a two-factor model that includes the "fitness and fatigue" variables that explain why the more you practice something, the better you get. We know this is true, and we know people are overtrained at the point of their peak performance, in any sport, really.
Two-factor model:
The relevance of this is that he uses the incorrect one-factor model as justification for his pretty hard-core rest periods, like hitting the chest once every 14 days. There's no evidence that suggests it takes this long to recover. He has no proof of this working either, as it was all "phone clients" claiming to make massive gains on that system. I'm not suggesting he's a liar though, as magazines showed him using earlier Heavy Duty methods on himself and clients with great success. Emphasis on "earlier" though as the only actual person I saw document their progress on the "consolidated" routine, got weaker and smaller by doing it.
The other thing is that slow reps make you weaker. The only study comparing the two found that maximal strength (1RM) was way higher for people training at normal rep speeds. The slow reps only made them slightly better at moving a weight slowly. There is also physiology (the size principle) that shows that you can't "trick" the body into thinking a weight is heavier than it is just by moving it slowly. Increasing stimulus is better done by increasing weight or reps. It could be good for people with injuries who are using perfectly greased machines with no sticking points, but that doesn't apply to most of the people following his work.
I do like him though; recovery is where growth occurs, and he's right about that. Genetics are also the prime determinant for your gains. People have gotten big doing every system under the sun. I've come to the conclusion the best routines are just the normal 1x a week split routine or a 2-3x full body routine. The routine should be what you want to do because it really won't make a difference down the road. The workouts being difficult is what matters.
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@Peatriot I like doing Arnold workouts, the first time I did his arm workout I had lots of positive results, this was after a hiatus as well.
https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/how-arnold-built-his-shoulders-and-arms.html
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@The-New-Sun fantastic where did you source?
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@BeanSprouts I did HIT style for my upper body for 6 months. Gained as much size as a regular routine but much less time at the gym. So I preferred it in that respect.
Do bodybuilding outside as much as possible. Compliment with pylometrics and sprints and sports.
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The three biggest factors in building muscle are mechanical tension, motor unit activation, and protein synthesis.
Mechanical Tension
-The faster a contraction, the less tension a given muscle cell experiences; the slower a contraction the more tension it experiences (force-velocity relationship)
-Slow concentric contractions produce the most tension, eccentrics produce relatively little
-Lighter resistance can induce similar tension to heavier resistance when done slowlyMotor Unit Activation (not metabolic fatigue)
-High intensity; 1-2 repetitions from failure
-Fewer repetitions with heaver resistance are easier at accomplishing this but higher reps can works as well (peripheral fatigue)
-Avoid excess lactate accumulation as this does not signal muscle growth
-Long periods of rest in between sets to replenish creatine phosphate and maximize motor unit recruitment while limiting glycolysisProtein Synthesis
-Limit excess muscle damage as it is counterproductive to muscle gain (junk volume, too many eccentric contractions, reliance of glycolysis)
-Optimize anabolic to catabolic ratio (lower stress, increase metabolism)
-Eat enough carbohydrates/protein -
@sphenoid Lovley write up. Last two sections emphasizes why bioenergetics are crucial. I’ve done online coaching for years and 80% of advice I have ever given in regards to diet ended up being “eat more.”
Muscle is a very, very high energy tissue to maintain and grow. Having metabolic inefficiencies is like putting out a net into a stream where the desired end result is having the highest possible number of fish at the end of the stream.
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@The-Good-Doctor Yes most people's metabolisms are too crippled to build muscle effectively, especially when they try to run a mainstream program that just adds fuel to the fire. Increases in glycolysis/lactate, stupid amounts of muscle damage, and plenty of CNS fatigue just drives them into the ground more.
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@The-New-Sun I have been on andro for a year now. It won’t really help a whole ton in building muscle since it is downstream of DHT. But the other effects you have described are accurate. It will also masculinze your face more over time too.
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Two-factor model:
Is this a merchant
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@xyit just an anecdote, I experimented with 200mg twice a day for two weeks for test boosting purposes and experienced no effects.
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@xyit idealabs
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@sphenoid Yes, I’ve been there before. Miserable state, that can go on for a long time unrealized when you bank on willpower/stress hormones. Hope to save many from this fate!
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B brad moved this topic from Bioenergetics Discussion on Jan 30, 2024, 3:39 PM
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What do you guys think about training in the higher rep ranges (50-100 reps), with ligher weights; in the style of Eugene Sandow's Light Dumbell System or Nucleus Overload?
Personally, when I started training higher reps with resistance bands, I couldn't go back to the old way. Was inspired by this channel to try resistance bands:
Youtube VideoAlso, I recommend anyone to try the chest expander: a great workout for the traps and shoulders.
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@nikola I won't lie to you, you must be out of your mind to be doing 50-100 reps
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@Hitler hahah, maybe 100 reps was a bit of an exaggeration. But only 1 rep, 50 reps with light weight, 2 times a week.
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@nikola
I did a modified Sandow's after I saw GEBookworm's video. The first section is good for developing mind-muscle control, getting a pump if you'd like, working muscles for the first time, or taking it easy from an injury(as I was with wrist issues). There's a reason why it's followed up by progressive weight training- the low-CNS stimulus high-rep familiarizes various movement patterns and builds the foundation for the "growth" portion which comes from the progressive lifting.
I wasn't meticulous with my measurements, mostly just trying to move, but I did find it easier than many other workout programs because almost no one ever uses weights below 10lbs, so there's always some available.
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@xyit tongkat made my test go from about 850 to 1100ng (which could just be a normal fluctuation) but honestly I don’t recommend the stuff at all as it also made my prolactin go from 11 to 19. Androsterone (tries with the usual preg/dhea combinations) is far more effective with what I think is a semi-similar effect (AI via DHT) but like all herbs TA does so through a far more complex and messy mechanism. Cistanche is a bit better and felt like it had other benefits (sleep and digestion) but has the same tolerance effects you would see from any herbal med.
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@JulofEnoch oh, I see, it teaches you how to use certain muscles and correct technique.
What about combining high rep, and low rep progressive weight traning? For example, on monday high rep, friday low rep.I saw a comment on a video by GEbookwork talking about this type of workout:
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@nikola
To be honest, I'm not too familiar with any research or discussions about mixing high-rep and low-rep days. I guess my question would be: what is the desired outcome of such a split?
If it's hypertrophy, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be consistent in moderate-to-high reps through the week.
If strength training, I don't see why you wouldn't be consistent in low-to-moderate reps through the week.
The best reasons I could think for splitting:
a) you have time constraints and one of your workouts is pragmatically shorter than the other
b) you're using the high-rep day as a moment to boost your average exertion over the week(adding general low-level physical load)
c) most important: that type of split gives you consistency and its easy for you to do continually.The best routine is the one that you can continue doing- results vary from changes in that routine, but you'll never achieve good or great results with inconsistency.
I'm not sure how familiar you are with weightlifting, but don't get too caught up in what other people say their routines are and their results; you have no idea what that random YouTube commentor is doing in their life.
Pick a routine and see it through to the end.
