Why are Thiamine doses so high?
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Most studies I’ve seen, doses are around 3-20mg—others are much higher, over a thousand etc.
Why then is most supplemental thiamine sold as 100mg? Are there potential problems with this much?
I’ve heard one can hardly overdose thiamine but just curious if anyone has thoughts. -
@CharlieLover123 Lower dosages (I'd consider 100 to be a good amount) are good for daily usage if you're not attempting to solve any problems, but high dosage thiamine is what many regard as a miracle vitamin for larger ailments and have had the most impactful results using. I'm sure other people can help me answer this.
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@mostlylurking
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From what I've heard it's absorbed poorly so you need high doses for it to have any effect.
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@CharlieLover123 said in Why are Thiamine doses so high?:
Most studies I’ve seen, doses are around 3-20mg—others are much higher, over a thousand etc.
Why then is most supplemental thiamine sold as 100mg? Are there potential problems with this much?
I’ve heard one can hardly overdose thiamine but just curious if anyone has thoughts.Different types of thiamine require different doses. Thiamine hcl is the oldest type and that which is used in most studies when a specific type is not specified. In a hospital setting, it is injected and 100mg is the standard injected dose of thiamine hcl. If taking thiamine hcl orally, it requires a huge dose compared to the 100mg by injection to get the same response. Dr. Costantini's website provides the most information about taking thiamine hcl orally.
(translated from the Italian) "Finding the Correct Dose (Dr. Costantini treated Parkinson's Disease Patients with thiamine hcl):
The correct dose varies on the basis of:Duration of the disease (the longer is the duration of the disease, the higher will be in general the doses;
Severity of the symptoms and rate of progression of the disease;
Weight and physical characteristics of the patient;
Sensitivity/responsiveness to the treatment.In order to determine the right dose, we usually stick to the following protocol.
In case of recent onset of the disease in patients whose weight is between 50 to 65 kg (110 – 145 lbs), we begin the therapy with two grams of thiamine per day, before and after lunch.
In case the patient weighs more, the dose can be three grams per day, always divided into two administrations.
Oral thiamine should not be taken with juices or any sour beverage, water only.
The equivalent Intramuscular administration of thiamine would be:
For 2 grams/day orally = 1 x 100mg injectable solution per week;
For 3 grams/day orally = 2 x 75mg injectable solution per week;
For 4 grams/day orally = 2 x 100 mg injectable solution per week."
-end paste-TTFD thiamine is a newer type of thiamine developed in a lab in Japan. The Japanese were mainly focused on beriberi patients (I think). Elliot Overton, Dr. Chandler Marrs, and Dr. Derrick Lonsdale all prefer to prescribe TTFD thiamine. It has no absorption issue like oral thiamine hcl has and it comes in capsules. My husband uses this type and he takes two 100mg capsules/day. There is no "transport" (?) issue with this type. Some people cannot tolerate TTFD (like me) because it uses glutathione (somehow, some way) and so if you are deficient/low in glutathione, TTFD will cause negative reactions. Thiamine hcl, on the other hand, normalizes the level of glutathione, I think by lowering oxidative stress. I reacted badly to TTFD thiamine so I take thiamine hcl, 1 gram, 2Xday, dissolved in water. My glutathione level did normalize after several months of taking high dose thiamine hcl.
Thiamine mononitrate in 100mg capsules has been showing up a LOT on shelves at retail stores. I don't know a lot about it other than it is known to cause kidney damage in higher doses. It also is available in sublingual form, in 100mg dose (that is considered to be a safe dose, according to Dr. Lonsdale. This sublingual form is totally absorbed under the tongue and is said to be as effective as a 100mg injection of thiamine hcl. Some Parkinson's Disease patients have had good success with using this sublingual.
If you have been deficient in thiamine for a long time, you can develop a "dependency" on it which means you will need higher doses of it to get the needed effect. Elliot Overton has a good video about it here.
Thiamine hcl is considered a "safe" supplement and has a very long track record. According to Dr. Costantini, people are not supposed to experience any negative effects from it. Rarely one of his patients would have a negative effect so he would stop the treatment for a week or so, then invite the patient to resume the treatment at half the dose. Apparently, negative reactions to TTFD are more common; Dr. Lonsdale et. al. tend to encourage patients to "plow through" the "paradoxical" reaction until improvement is seen. I couldn't do that myself. I got a headache that lasted 36 hours from taking one 100mg capsule of TTFD. My husband, on the other hand, has never had a negative reaction to TTFD.
There are several other types of thiamine on the market but I have not tried them and I don't have knowledge about them.
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System referenced this topic on
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@mostlylurking thanks for sharing. Have you experienced any other vitamin B requirements going up from supplementing B1 in those doses?
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@Buckian said in Why are Thiamine doses so high?:
@mostlylurking thanks for sharing. Have you experienced any other vitamin B requirements going up from supplementing B1 in those doses?
I learned from reading Ray Peat's articles that supplementing niacinamide and riboflavin are helpful in many ways that I considered important so I already was supplementing them when I learned from Elliot Overton that these two are on his list to supplement when high dosing thiamine. I take 100mg of each (niaminamide and riboflavin), 4Xday.
