Glucose loading cures everything?
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@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
I've received my order of 10kgs "organic" dextrose and am wondering whether that makes any difference to "regular" dextrose.
Well, have YOU noticed it making any difference?
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Have you noticed any retracing?
I can't say I have! Every time I've had severe symptoms it's been because I've taken too much glucose.
All that said I think I'm "set up" to heal well/smoothly on glucose. If I had started this before I changed the way I eat I'm sure it would have been much more rough. All my systems were in shambles.
Now many of them already work relatively well, despite the incredible fatigue. It's like all my parts work better, except the motor. In that sense I may experience less "detox" symptoms, because when the motor is working, the pathways for elimination are ready to be ramped up. Any “detox” symptoms I’ve had have been incredibly gentle though.
I haven't seen a convincing argument from Dr Stephens about the value of retracing symptoms, or even why a high dose is necessary to heal. I've continued to wake up refreshed, and don’t experience crashing or a lactate buildup which is common in ME, so even though the glucose hasn't fully removed my fatigue overnight, I feel incredibly hopeful about this approach.
Alan Franklin talks about three stages of ME/CFS: The unstable or toxic stage, the stabilising stage, and remission. I think that in 2021, after eating PM for about a year, I got to the stabilizing stage. The following fall I got covid again, and since November '22 I've been back in the toxic stage. I have hardly been able to do anything before crashing.
Now, two weeks in, now taking 12-14 tbsp a day, approximately 1 every hour, I am at least in the stabilizing stage, if not remission. I think it will take time, and only time will tell how much I can recover, but with reading the science I feel “logically hopeful” for the first time.
@T-3 said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
More information, even speculative, about the mechanisms that make glucose special would be good to read here -- and whether there are reasonable food-based approaches to "glucose maxing" that might work (e.g. foods with more cofactors that help the breakdown process from all carbohydrates to blood-glucose).
NOW FOR SOME EDUCATED SPECULATION:
This is long, so take breaks and have some glucose if necessary!
First I want to say how I've approached this. In 2020 I realised low blood sugar activate the "stress hormones", and had a sense that my "stress" would be best "managed" through food.
Since 2021 I’ve been reading about the metabolic system, in part RP’s articles and learning from this community, and about the ME/CFS research, feeling like I am only surface level understanding a lot of it, but with this idea that if I get to know the patterns, it will make it easier to recognize what interventions to try, and how to tweak them to fit my specific needs. My approach has always been that the body and brain is smart, and not doing anything dumb, like “limit glucose because it’s afraid of a future episode of hyperglycolosis”.
For a long time now a leading hypothesis for ME/CFS has been that there is something in the metabolic system that isn’t optimal, and that it has to do with the body's ability to break down carbohydrates. With time the research has been able to pinpoint more and more where in the metabolism this issue is occurring.
The Itaconate shunt
Now we know this much:Something is happening in the Krebs cycle that could explain why carbohydrates are not broken down, and that is called the Itaconate shunt.
I think what the glucose is allowing is a positive shift in the Krebs cycle (which is “the center of carbon metabolism in the human body” - a quote from the last video I am gonna post), away from the Itaconate shunt; and downstream from that positive shift, recovery can begin/resume, and healing can occur.
I'm so deep into the research about ME/CFS now that it's hard to know how available it is to other people. But this is a very short video explaining the Itaconate shunt, that happens (or can happen) in the Krebs cycle after injuries (infection, TBI, vaccine induced, etc), and when it does it could be said to "limit glucose".
Or rather, the Krebs cycle is not able to prioritize the breaking down of carbs and fat, when the Itaconate shunt is happening.
I wasn't able to embed the videos, so just gonna post links:
https://youtu.be/7inKF32vtl8?si=-WlofDsDiUCn9JX2My thoughts about Stephens hypothesis
I’ll say more about the Itaconate shunt, but first I want to say something about Stephens hypothesis, and why I think he’s onto something with glucose, but I don’t think he understands at all why it’s working - and I am not recommending anyone to trust that high doses are necessary for recovery. I don’t think it is.Stephen's describe it this way in this talk, from around 28 minutes. From this talk: https://youtu.be/AiyoNM7OT7Y?si=gqthd-LKJkG94ZnX
“that isn't exactly what happens after an injury, but it's close. The brain kind of opens up the valve from your body to let more glucose in, so there's enough fuel to respond to that situation. So you have enough energy in your brain to fight or flee or even to just freeze and pay attention to what is going on around you.
When that happens the brain gets too much glucose, it comes in too fast, and that causes a condition called hyperglycolosis, meaning your brain is getting too much glucose, too fast. If that continuous for any length of time that becomes dangerous, so what the brain will do is like it turns the valve down to limit the amount of glucose coming in. It does it in the moment, and that turns off the hyperglycolosis, but it also does this permanently, because the brain wants to prevent a future episode of hyperglycolosis.”
His hypothesis is this idea that the brain “let’s glucose in”, and with every glucose limiting events will “let in” less and less. In my opinion he has created a hypothesis that is just educational speculation (a lot of it is correct, but a lot of it is not), and I think his hypothesis shows that he doesn’t understand the metabolic system very well.
It’s a hypothesis that is very “brain alone”, and it seems to miss that hypoglycemia is very common in all of the diagnosis he is treating - which is important because too much glucose can make that worse.
Hypoglycemia
If you’re not (or have at no point been) testing blood glucose levels, it’s important to know if that’s a likely issue for you. Do a search about your diagnosis and/or your symptoms! And if you have hypoglycemia and you’re not finding relief or having more symptoms on high doses, I would warmly recommend you explore lower doses, or at least test your BG to see what's going on.The Itaconate shunt is not mentioned on Stephens homepage. A lot of the references and research is old or very old, and describes things that will happen downstream from the Itaconate shunt. I think he's done a good effort, but not quite found the mechanism he was looking for.
Which isn't super surprising, as I think ME/CFS researchers are closer to understanding this than most, and I get that he’s not updated on ME/CFS research, because ME/CFS has been psycologized for so long and isn't thought of as a neurological disorder. I think for that reason the amazing research that is happening isn’t given attention in any mainstream publications. It’s also not being funded enough; if it was, I think these researchers would already know more about how to treat the Itaconate shunt.
The ME hypothesis
The ME hypothesis about Itaconate shunt is similar, but still very different.I’ll repeat it, in case people are still trying to wrap their head around this: The hypothesis is that there is something happening in the Krebs cycle that doesn’t allow the breakdown of fat and carbohydrates to occur as it should. That includes disaccharides like sucrose, but that’s likely better than complex carbs, with lots of fiber; meaning you might be able to have a similar result with something other than glucose, but why would you? You would likely need to supplement something to support the system, like B1. But, why would you.
When the Krebs cycle doesn't work as intended the production of ATP is also severely stunted. In fact, the Itaconate shunt uses ATP. You will also end up with a lot of lactate; which explain why ME/CFS patients have very high levels of lactate in the blood. As long as we’re alive the Itaconate shunt isn’t complete/the Krebs cycle still works a little, and from what I understand it can fluctuate, which explain why many of us can have better or even really good weeks, days and moments, even if the Itaconate shunt is happening most of the time.
In case it isn't clear:
My hypothesis is that when you supplement with pure glucose, Itaconate shunt doesn’t happen anymore, and the Krebs cycle can function appropriately again!My experience is you don't need a high dose for that to happen, you need a sufficient dose, consistently - but consistently just means quite often, or even "when your blood sugar starts to fall". Most of us will know when that happens.
Some of my guesses as to why glucose hasn’t been tested large scale (or small scale) is
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That most of the research I’ve read about TBI’s (traumatic brain injuries) the bigger fear is hyperglycemia.
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Who will fund it? It's food, not a patented medication.
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Because PUFA and fear of sugar means most people’s metabolism doesn’t work great to begin with, and more glucose alone can make their bodies more deficient, faster. Someone who hasn’t started healing their metabolism will likely have a very different reaction to trying glucose than I have had. The reason I stopped having sugar, the first time I did was in 2011, was because sugar was exacerbating my symptoms. It could have been because of the way I was eating, but it could have been because I was still in the unstable/toxic stage after an injury.
A more detailed look at the Itaconate shunt
For anyone interested in a deeper explanation about the hypothesis, here’s is a more detailed video.
https://youtu.be/RiVDNhg4l48?si=jPHmXSc940nYMh03If you start watching this one, and then start to think it’s too confusing, there’s some clarifications around 30 minutes that are helpful. I still haven’t watched the last 20 minutes or so, but my sense is you can jump to 30minutes if the first 30 is too detailed.
This video talks more about the Itaconate shunt, the how and why the brain is limiting fuel after an accident. I don't think anyone knows yet why it gets stuck in this shunt. I have some hypothesis' about what can happen downstream to make the it increasingly harder to get out of the loop though. My sense is these loops may vary between us, and be dependent on, or affected by, the imbalances already active in our specific body.
One hypothesis is that digestion is not prioritized during the shunt. When digestion is shut down, the gut won’t break down carbohydrates as much, and when that happens most people are recommended to eat more complex carbs, and avoid white sugar. With this, even less glucose will be available for the Krebs cycle.
The Ray Peat of it all
I’ve already said I don’t think Peat understood ME/CFS. But I hope he would be excited to learn about the Itaconate shunt, because it clarifies things he knew (the GABA system he mentions might be the Krebs cycle?), and personally I think the ME/CFS research goes well with a RP approach to the metabolism.I looked up some of the things that can be an issue when the Itaconate shun happens. Some of the search words/key ideas I used was B1/Thiamine deficency, GABA, glutamate, ammonia. And on glutamate I found this, from Peat: https://bioenergetic.life/?q=Glutamate: (I’ve added some comments, that may help clarify why I think this is relevant.) This one: kmud-190315-viruses, from 00.35:
00:35:04.160 --> 00:35:06.160
Listener:
Hi, I'm from Arizona. Thanks for the show, Andrew and Dr. Peat. Dr. Peat, your article on immunodeficiency mentions the autoantibodies several times.
Glutamate is an excitatory amino acid and glutamate decarboxylates the enzyme that turns glutamate into GABA which is associated with relaxation somehow.
My question is about how some people have autoantibodies to this enzyme and these are associated with type 1 diabetes and stiff man syndrome.
I was wondering if you had any comments on the system and how does gamma hydroxybutyrate and/or passion fruit juice influence the autoantibodies in GABA?Ray Peat:
I think the energy system should be able to use the antibodies to clean out the defective enzymes and not continue to be produced.
I think supporting the GABA system with magnesium, glucose, carbon dioxide, anti-inflammatory things,
the pro-GABA steroids derived from progesterone in particular, and the anti-immune steroid DHEA which helps to redirect the antibody production.
Estrogen tends to make us overproduce antibodies but not be able to guide the correction process.
So things that shift the whole physiology towards oxidation and the relaxed, highly energized state of the cell.
I think that's the route out of all of those autoimmune diseases.Listener:
Do you have any comments on people who have adverse childhood experiences and physical injuries?
I had a head injury 20 years ago.Ray Peat: Those same things, the things that increase stability and energy production and carbon dioxide production, all of those are constantly causing cells to be born and differentiate in the right direction.
Listener:
Last question, is there any use for GABA supplementation?
Ray Peat: Normally it doesn't get into the brain because of the so-called blood-brain barrier,
but when the brain is very injured it is taken up because basically the brain needs it.
But ordinarily I think it's enough just to eat a pro-oxidative diet, avoid the excess of phosphate, lactic acid, iron and so on.I’ll dissect this more if anyone is interested, because I think we’re finding signs of an Itaconcate shunt here (or seeing stuff that will be an issue downstream, when the Itaconate shunt is happening).
I am already supplementing some of the things he’s suggestion: magnesium, glucose. I also think B1 is helpful here, in the recovery phase, but I only take a normal dose. The other stuff I think falls into place when the Krebs cycle is functioning as intended.
The HPA Axis
I've already posted this hypothesis research, but I want to say something more about it, so here it is again.Hypocortisolemic ASIA: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/immunology/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2024.1422940/full?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1C5hdVFRydpUViXaHE4EZUGwIAZzeoKvpIBz-3UyI9i4hNcVNFVjlP1CM_aem_98genhg2EQxnqVdoeUCZ9w
Then don't mention the Itaconate shunt, which is especially surprising, because it could explain something they do mention: "A developmental model is postulated that involves the interaction between immune hyperactivation, autoimmune hypophysitis or pituitary hypophysitis, and immune depletion."
Antibodies are also mentioned. This theory can probably be used for other neurological diagnosis, as there are overlapping findings in the HPA axis. I am thinking the things mentioned in this article may be a side effect of the shunt, and/or autoimmune symptoms that are just coming from not enough fuel to the HPA axis. That will leave us with a lot of hormonal imbalances, that can explain a long list of symptoms.
If you think you have a “glucose limitation” look up the hormones produces in the hypothalamus, pituitary gland and adrenals, and you might find the explanation for your weird symptoms.
The importance of enough nutrient dense food, while supplementing
I’m gonna end by saying that I think it’s very important to eat enough while supplementing glucose. Like sucrose, glucose is empty calories, meaning they don't contain any nutrients. If you are gaining weight on glucose you are likely not having enough nutrient dense food, or not enough calories overall. (Or too much glucose.)I notice it myself, but even my very healthy best friend, who is doing 3x4 tbsp a day because he has some small stuff he would like to heal, notices that he needs more/more nutrient dense food to avoid “crashing” after activity. When he eats enough though, the small stuff is healed and he feels great. My thinking is that when the Krebs cycle works better, having more carbs with nutrients will be better than having loads of glucose, and I can already have more starches!
I am guessing that with hypoglycemia there’s often less ability to store glucose. I think maybe the liver (and body overall) will store fat instead, when it’s not able to store glycogen (or doesn't have any extra glucose to store?
Which is another reason I think taking big doses won’t be helpful: I don’t think the body is able to store the extra glucose well - yet. That will change with time I think, because if the liver is storing fat it will start to release it and store glucose instead.
All in all I think with time both my bestie and I will become more resilient, and have more flexibility around this; like being able to skip a meal with no problems, because the body’s ability to store glycogen will get better when the Krebs cycle works as intended. But I consider the next many months (at least 6) as a recovery period, where I will prioritize rest and gradually build strength, when I feel the body is ready. Already seeing some nice improvements, so I am hopeful!
Just to repeat, in case someone is wondering, so you don't have to go looking: I take 12-14 tbsp a day, approximately every hour. I might need less over time? I take it with salt, and I take cream of tartar for potassium. I mostly go on gut feeling for both.
I also take oyster powder and liver capsules, because I can't get that fresh and good quality. I also supplement magnesium bisglycinate, b1, vitamin d and k2. All of these I supplement because of symptoms, but I might not need to continue if the Krebs cycle work better.
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@gentlepotato Interesting! Thank you for sharing! I'm saving the video links to watch as time permits.
Regarding retracing, I believe Dr. Stephens explanation is that you may become more aware of symptoms as your brain "wakes up." I think that's likely true, but there's also something else happening. In homeopathy and other alternative methods of energy healing, as layers of pathology are peeled back, the revisiting of old symptoms will be likely. In any sort of trauma, your brain tries to protect you, so I envision those experiences being covered over with scar tissue, buried deep in your psyche, but never really healed. So as the brain begins to heal you may feel many emotions as well as physical symptoms related to traumatic events experienced years ago.
I haven't yet heard a good scientific explanation for how high amounts of glucose will trigger this process, but I think supporting healing with "energy medicine" is advisable.
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@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Now many of them already work relatively well, despite the incredible fatigue. It's like all my parts work better, except the motor. In that sense I may experience less "detox" symptoms, because when the motor is working, the pathways for elimination are ready to be ramped up. Any “detox” symptoms I’ve had have been incredibly gentle though.
Interesting language GP.
@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
NOW FOR SOME EDUCATED SPECULATION:
It's eye music. What internet forums were made for.
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@gentlepotato said
If you think you have a “glucose limitation” look up the hormones produces in the hypothalamus, pituitary gland and adrenals, and you might find the explanation for your weird symptoms.
Do you mean to say that e.g. a suppressed circadian TRH curve or a stunted TSH response to exogenous TRH (i.e. a functionally atrophied pituitary gland) could be commonly associated with overall glucose limitation?
Reading your long post had me impressed as it means some of your brain was clearly working well enough to start and accomplish that.@gentlepotato said
I am guessing that with hypoglycemia there’s often less ability to store glucose. I think maybe the liver (and body overall) will store fat instead, when it’s not able to store glycogen (or doesn't have any extra glucose to store?
Which is another reason I think taking big doses won’t be helpful: I don’t think the body is able to store the extra glucose well - yet. That will change with time I think, because if the liver is storing fat it will start to release it and store glucose instead.
Interesting. And maybe this relates to what I am going through described further below?
@S-Holmes said
I think supporting healing with "energy medicine" is advisable.
What measures do you mean by "energy medicine"?
@Jaffe on noticing any difference between dextrose products' quality:
I have not yet switched to the organic dextrose but will report when I notice any differences or when not.Experience update:
4 weeks into dextrose now.
Last Tuesday/Wednesday I had made the large increase from 5x c. 56grs to 5x 100grs daily.
To my surprise this time I felt weak and drowsy for only one day, in contrast to my previous increases.
On the plus side I have not been feeling "snackish" anymore in between my dextrose servings. So the higher serving size for me currently lasts longer than the previously lower amount.
By Friday the anticipated digestive troubles began to set in again, starting with terribly oily and unformed BMs. I have eaten no fats and no oils within the past week. Seriously zero.
Throughout Saturday I had mucuous watery diarrhea. Followed by a some flatulence.
Since Sunday it's awfully oily BMs again.
I took activated charcoal and psyllium on Friday and on Sunday. I am thinking that I may need regular daily GI binders. I don't know if cholestyramine would help and have just drunk a 4grs package of that.
Also, on Friday evening I had started to add 2grs BCAAs to every dextrose serving because of the tryptophan shift brought up in the other thread here.
Clearly, adding BCAAs did not alleviate the digestive issues as hypothesized but probably even enhanced the GI issues from upping dextrose in me enormously.
And I can't say whether this is ought to be a categorically "good" thing to my body's benefit.
Practically and right now there's definitely something very off.I appreciate all helpful suggestions on these reactions and how to manage them.
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@CrumblingCookie My preferred energy medicine is homeopathy, but there are others that are also quite useful.
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@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Do you mean to say that e.g. a suppressed circadian TRH curve or a stunted TSH response to exogenous TRH (i.e. a functionally atrophied pituitary gland) could be commonly associated with overall glucose limitation?
Reading your long post had me impressed as it means some of your brain was clearly working well enough to start and accomplish that.Thank you for that lovely reflection! I can only assume that alongside the pro metabolic way of eating, my meditation practice (ten years in August) has been protective and supportive of my brain.
To your question: Yes. A lot of the research I've read about neurological diseases have symptoms of, and more objective findings, of one or both.
Again from here, the article about Hypocortisolemic ASIA (that describes the Itaconate shunt, without knowing it): https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/immunology/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2024.1422940/full?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR3zhrexW5QVOLR_K9X7KQYKokcY3NflDVcwjFY5mJ-UDY0VOV6QiOzLqqE_aem_mu738vb0NJaI3RSXBno-vw
"This process might begin with a deficient CD4 T-cell response to viral infections in genetically predisposed individuals (HLA-DRB1), followed by an uncontrolled immune response with CD8 T-cell hyperactivation and elevated antibody production, some of which may be directed against autoantigens, which can trigger autoimmune hypophysitis or direct damage to the pituitary, resulting in decreased production of pituitary hormones, such as ACTH. As the disease progresses, prolonged exposure to viral antigens can lead to exhaustion of the immune system, exacerbating symptoms and pathology."
Edit: Just read your question again, and I am not 100% sure I understood it correctly. Let me know if I didn't!
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I had my first appointment with the good doctor today. It went really well. He says I'll need to work up to at least 10 Tbsps per dose. I'm currently at 4.
After nearly a month on the protocol, I realized today during the consultation that I haven't had suicidal thoughts in about 2 weeks. 2 of my 3 younger sisters took their own lives within the past 4 years...one by intentional overdose and the other used her handgun. This is huge for me and I feel very encouraged.
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That’s amazing resultat, @S-Holmes. I’m so sorry you’ve lost your sisters to suicide.
What is the reasoning Stephens give, when he says you need to up the dose? And what are you hoping that will change, when you're already seeing such amazing results with the dose you're on?
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@gentlepotato
Thank you. Life wasn't kind to my sisters and although still very sad, I find comfort in knowing they're no longer suffering.I've had CFS for as long as I can remember, and adult failure to thrive (couldn't gain weight except during pregnancy). I've been able to control symptoms throughout my life using constitutional homeopathy, then at menopause everything took a turn. I've had tinnitus for 15 years. I'm dealing with long covid after contracting covid 3 times: fatigue and chronic sinusitis impacting eyes and causing congestion.. Post covid I also developed what I call sundown anxiety. It's a horrible sinking discomfort that would stop me in my tracks every day like clockwork as soon as the sun set. (I could tell when the sun set without seeing it.) I learned that I could control it with a little Coke, and now glucose.
A stressful childhood, a car accident, and a slip on the ice, hitting my head hard on a concrete step are likely the primary mitigating factors in my pathology. Dr. Stephens is 100% confident that I will be cured.
His consulting fees are $0 to $175. What I pay is completely up to me. If, as some claim, glucose therapy isn't legitimate, I have yet to see what's actually in it for him.
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@S-Holmes Bless you. I can identify with the adult failure to thrive as you mention (and Stephens does as well). I heap piles of shame on top of this, and I grieve of life lost to survival mode living.
It will be amazing to see amazing people like you fully restored to full potential. I don't like the word recovery, as I'm not sure what previous version of me I would even want to recover to. It sounds like you and others that have stumbled on this treatment would probably relate. I'm really inspired by your story. You deserve to be (and will be) fully healed. Thanks for your sharing.
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@GlucoseOrBust My heart goes out to those like us who are forced to live an entire life in survival mode, never knowing we were intended to find pleasure just living out each moment. I had a glimpse of that for a day around the time my suicidal thoughts vanished. I pray you can find that and that I can get back to it.
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Please share your ideas for helping the glucose water go down easier. I take it in cold fizzy water with lime or lemon added. Still seems like drinking syrup but it does help.
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
His consulting fees are $0 to $175. What I pay is completely up to me. If, as some claim, glucose therapy isn't legitimate, I have yet to see what's actually in it for him.
He seems like a very well intentioned person, and amazing he is able and willing to offer consultations at the price someone can pay. What is the easiest way to get a hold of him? I still haven't heard back after inquiring through his homepage.
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@gentlepotato It took me a few weeks sending multiple messages. He apologized for that. I think because of the discussion here and on the RPF he has suddenly gotten a new influx of patients. If you would like to pm me your phone number I can text it to him.
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@S-Holmes thank you for the offer! I'm in Europe, so different time zone completely, therefore email would be preferred. If you have his email, would you be able to send it to me?
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@gentlepotato Sure. Will PM.
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My gut feeling tells me to explore fat with the glucose, and I've tried to search the forum about this without finding anything (I find the search function doesn't work well - am I the only one?): What fat source has the most nutrients per grams that would be supportive, in terms of neurotransmitters, brain health, Krebs cycle, mitochondria?
The gut feeling is likely informed by the video by Rob Phair that I posted the other day, where he talks about the GABA shunt.
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Without assessing the validity of your gut feeling (maybe you don't need exogenous fatty acids but more endogeneous synthesis with the help of B5 and B6 and B7?),
@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:What fat source has the most nutrients per grams that would be supportive, in terms of neurotransmitters, brain health, Krebs cycle, mitochondria?
I'd confidently say cocoa butter (pellets) and beef or lamb tallow to this, as they contain lots of valuable long-chain saturated FAs and stearic acid (for mitogenesis) especially.
Or instead of tallow: Fatty cuts of beef or lamb and eat/keep/separate the fats after c. 3hrs of low-temp cooking.I haven't yet read through that paper you posted and the itaconate ways.
Thanks @S-Holmes. Not sure which homeopathic remedy would be right for me right now. But I've added Glechoma tincture for my detox suppport (Lysimachia=Gold Coin Grass=Jin Qian Cao may be more available to some). -
@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Without assessing the validity of your gut feeling (maybe you don't need exogenous fatty acids but more endogeneous synthesis with the help of B5 and B6 and B7?),
Thanks, I'll look into that!
I'd confidently say cocoa butter (pellets) and beef or lamb tallow to this, as they contain lots of valuable long-chain saturated FAs and stearic acid (for mitogenesis) especially.
Or instead of tallow: Fatty cuts of beef or lamb and eat/keep/separate the fats after c. 3hrs of low-temp cooking.Thank you! I think my gut feeling often knows, but I need to do so much unlearning about food to be able to listen well to it. It's getting better, but one way to unlearn is to research and ask others. And hearing that answer make it easier to tap into the gut feeling I was having.
Which has been asking for cocoa, but I thought it meant powder, because that's all I have at the moment. It also asked for more tallow, but I keep forgetting to use it because it's in the fridge and not on the countertop. Gonna have to keep some next to the stovetop. I always keep the tallow when I make oxtails, so I've got lots, and use it as a face cream too. Tallow is amazing.
I will experiment a little and report back.
How are you getting on though, @CrumblingCookie?
