Glucose loading cures everything?
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Random report here:
I have been doing the protocol for approximately 4-5 weeks. Nothing major to report positive or negative, but it's been subtly neutral-to-positive enough that I've kept on it. I am taking approximately 5 tbsp 3x per day (so in the ballpark of 600 calories of dextrose per day).
That said, I am concerned about the potential of becoming dependent on big doses of dextrose and I have some upcoming events which will leave me without dextrose for a week or two. So yesterday I decided to test out not having any. It went fine. I didn't crave it and I didn't notice any type of withdrawal symptoms going from 600 calories per day to 0 in one shot. I was glad about that.
I'm curious whether anyone else has concerns about developing a dependency and/or has any related experience to share.
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@jjk_learning Our brain has an innate dependence on glucose, but you already know that. I have my mom taking Smarties for her doses. Could you do that instead? Or maybe just take half doses?
Since we're alll experimenting, if you need to go cold turkey I hope you'll keep us posted.
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@S-Holmes I will keep you posted! Keep us posted on your dream world as well
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@S-Holmes
I'm trying the smarties as well. But they make me nauseous quickly. I don't have that with the sugar water. -
I have a little nausea with all doses after noon, regardless of whether taking Smarties or dextrose. Spicy food seems to help. I'm trusting that will get better over time.
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S S.Holmes referenced this topic on
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I've continued doing 1 tbsp at a time, and it's working great. The few times I've taken more glucose I've felt worse. I've had symptoms of low blood sugar, interrupted sleep and low pulse. So I'm sticking to 1 tbsp 12-14 times a day!
I already consistently do much more than four weeks ago, small things around the house, sit up and stand more (my symptoms have been so severe I've been "bed/couch bound" for most of the last year), and have much more time for things I enjoy. It's been lovely!
But I need a lot of rest. Which is not surprising, since I've been housebound for more than four years. My body has become very deconditioned, especially over the last year, which has been my worst year physically.
I sense my body system and brain needs a lot of healing on the inside, so I rest, and let that be the priority. I think my hormonal system is healing, as I see several signs of that! I trust in the process, and that with time I will have the capacity to do even more.
And the rest is magnificent.
It's wild to actually rest, after not having felt like I am recouparating much for 18 years, and hardly at all for the last eight. Really understanding the Itaconate shunt and the repercussions of it make me understand, on a new level, why rest has never made a big difference. (I learnt about it a few years ago, but I didn't really understand it the way I have over the last weeks.)
Now the pain is practically gone, the PEM (activity induced symptom increased, cardinal symptom of ME) is gone, and I wake up refreshed every morning. My circadian rhythm is so much better. I wake up early every morning, and feel tired in the evening.
Only issue is that I live far north, so at the moment it never really gets dark here. Even with my orange glasses it feels like daytime at 10pm, so my mind is a bit confused about that. However, yesterday I made an effort to get to bed at 11 and had a longer night's sleep. I'm delighted!
I use a timer and set it for 60 minutes. In the beginning I could feel the need for more glucose as it got closer to the alarm. I would check the timer and somewhere between 45-59 minutes had passed. Now I've missed it a few times, which makes me think I'm storing more glucose!
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@gentlepotato Amazing report! I can relate to the fatigue...my life story, esp. since Feb of 2020 and post covid syndrome.
I can tell progress is being made, but it's good that I understand retracing! I had (painful) frozen shoulder 15 years ago. It went away with ultrasound treatments, but tinnitus on that side became worse and has been ever since. So I trust that once the shoulder heals properly (this time) the tinnitus should also improve.
We just held a family reunion at our farm yesterday...4 generations of family in attendance. I had no help preparing for it (my husband DID hire a man to mow the property). I told him I would be surprised if I didn't need to cancel, but I didn't!
Keep those encouraging reports coming! Not so encouraging reports are welcome too, since Dr Stephens said there will be bumps along the way to healing and others can benefit from our trials.
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@S-Holmes Thank you for sharing as well, and how wonderful you were able to have the family reunion. Hope it was a lovely get together!
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@S-Holmes
wait ... your tinnitus and shoulder are related?... ever since my right shoulder and shoulder blade have been injured i have tinnitus along with jaw issues.
glucose realy is great for energy, i have the appetite of my 20year old self again and my manhood has improved immensely.
the "biggest" sideeffect thus far is being irritated/angry. i would assume due to either blood sugar dropping or my metabolism ramping up alot. eating something resolves it rather quickly tho.
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@gentlepotato Epic post regarding the Itaconate Shunt + GentlePotato Hypothesis as to why glucose-only has specific action stopping the Itaconate Shunt and thus improving (in Peat's words from the radio transcription you provided) both the "capacity" and "efficiency" of glucose oxidation.
The links to GABA and type-1-diabetes/autoimmune antibodies in the quote from the Peat interview were noteworthy, too.
Some random observations (expressing enthusiasm for GentlePotato's hypothesized mechanisms): In my own case, I respond to anti-excitatory supplements that are specifically GABA agonists (androsterone, kava) or operating directly on GABA receptors (progesterone). My subjective experience of plain sugar (sucrose) is similar. The mechanism(s) you mention and the overlap of our symptoms (those of us experimenting with and, at least at times, responding well to high-dose sugar or glucose as a supplement) makes me want to try glucose-only to compare. I think I do best with sucrose when I'm already uninflamed, good energetic capacity, i.e. oxidizing glucose well (which also would be contingent on having the enzymes or un-shunted baseline to be able to break sucrose down into glucose). According to your theory, glucose-only would be especially helpful when the sucrose-to-glucose pathway isn't working well and/or some stressor (e.g., TBI) has caused an Itaconate Shunt process to begin.
Upthread mentions of derangements in circadian rhythm are also interesting. Peating for several years and feeling like I'd made bioenergetic quantum leaps toward health (interpreted as "deeper capacity for" and "more efficient" glucose oxidation, specifically in brain tissue [although without a "CGM-like device" to measure such things directly, this is obviously a speculative interpretation])...only then did I want to wake up in the morning. After lifelong night-owl/sleep-deprivation/irregular-sleep patterns, I started to want to sleep "normal hours" and work/concentrate in the morning in the last six years or so. Type-1 diabetic here, btw.
Please speculate more when you've got more thoughts on the mechanisms in play explaining why sucrose-only might make a difference.
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@Ben I believe so, at least in my case. I'm testing that theory now.
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Hi everyone, I've just joined and I have finally finished reading the entire thread.
What a wonderful read it was and I sure would like to hop on the bandwagon and experiment but since I'm a type 2 diabetic I'm a bit apprehensive. I've been on BE diet for almost 8 months, got into it via The Energy Balance Podcast. It's been good but not revolutionary, I think it's due to the fact that my body is really messed up and as far as I understand it, getting to the type 2 diabetic level is pretty much the bottom level metabolically. I have a looooong way to go to climb back again.
My biggest worry is that my insulin resistance is kinda out of control. I take fast acting and long acting insulin and they don't work so I keep upping the dosages, which then also stop working and on and on. It's become a vicious cycle and I've gotten exhausted of watching it spin.
Along with my insulin resistance I also have a lot of edema, which apparently is also a sign of scraping the barrel metabolically wise.I really need to get the insulin resistance under control and I wonder if adding dextrose might help?
My worry is that it might exacerbate my edema and ruin my eyes. Don't want that!
I'd appreciate everyone's input and again, I am no stranger to experimenting. I would be willing to try this glucose loading and report regularly.
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@FaBel My understanding is that Dr Stephens was at first reluctant to treat diabetics, and when he finally acquiesced told them to make sure they kept their MD's in the loop. The results have been amazing. Diabetics have reportedly been cured on the glucose therapy.
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@FaBel Welcome! We're so glad you decided to join our grand experiment!
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How is everyone doing? I'm revisiting a 15 year old symptom, frozen (painful) shoulder It's kind of rough, but I'm pushing through.
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I'm in pretty horrible shape. I am getting ready to reach out to Dr. Stephens, but I just saw your post. I am emotionally breaking down, and I don't know what to do. I don't really blame the glucose, as my life keeps getting more and more desperate with or without it. It's been six weeks, and I haven't really seen it make a positive difference in any of my symptoms. If anything, everything is slightly worse. I just don't have the strength to push through much longer. His results have been literally unbelievable, but I keep thinking that it can't work for everyone. That's where I am at currently. I hope to snap out of it and find some kind of stable footing.
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@GlucoseOrBust I'm so sorry to hear this. I wonder if the unavoidable stresses in your life are keeping you from moving forward. Of course I don't know for certain if that's the situation. The good doctor does say there will be difficulties, but seeing even a little improvement would certainly help at this point.
Two of my husband's brothers played football through college. One is 64 and the other is 61. They're big guys who played the most injurious positions.They literally began falling apart about 10 years ago and are both in desperately bad conditions. I wish I could help them but at this point I'm not optimistic, and they've been very influenced by the sugar haters so it likely won't happen.
In my case, for now I'm taking a lot of aspirin, ibuprofin and magnesium. If I can get past this episode I'll be more encouraged...but who knows what will hit next. My old homeopath used to say when you clean house you're going to stir up a little dust. I didn't expect a whirlwind, but that's where I've been more than once.
My husband is still on the lowest dose. He seems to be doing fine. I have always managed his symptoms with energy medicine (homeopathy mostly) and he responds very well (lucky guy).
Hoping the best for you, and a breakthrough soon!!!
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@S-Holmes I appreciate you. I hope you get through your trials and out the other end with all the lessons and none of the suffering.
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I've received my order of 10kgs "organic" dextrose and am wondering whether that makes any difference to "regular" dextrose.
The organic dextrose comes in large, white, PP plastic containers and at the first (and every ensuing) opening of that container I was taken aback by a distinct plasticky smell. Luckily, however, no matter how hard I try I cannot sense that plasticky smell from the dextrose powder once I've taken it out of that container. So that's good.
Taste-wise, this particular organic dextrose seemed even "softer" than regular dextrose but I'm not very sure about this and whether that's a good (extra pure?) or a bad (solvents?) sign.
I will work/drink my way through it and report back.Experience update:
6 weeks into dextrose now.
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In the meantime I had been taking 2grams of BCAAs (2:1:1) with every serving of dextrose for over a week, because of the thoughts from this thread on the amino acids / tryptophan shift. I will need to report back over there, too.
Essentially, taking BCAAs did not work at all for me.
Not only did it not improve my response to glucose, but it worsened it.
I reckon that's due to both the BCAAs direct effects as well as due to that it lowered my appetite and thus significantly reduced my intake of proper food during that time.
Eventually I added an additional >5grams of glycine everyday to the BCAAs, because intuitively I felt that my feeling weird and "off" was less from a glycine/BCAA combo.
I think BCAA products should be grouped/blended with glycine as a standard.
Anyways, they all constistently exarcerbated my intestinal upset, causing me mucuous and watery diarrhea in a sort intestinal colic. I gradually, measurably and visibly lost an excess almost 3kgs body weight (which I had suddenly put on back in April for reasons unknown).
Also, I did sleep well anymore. That glucose-benefit on deep and coherent sleep was completely gone.
Not at all what was expected and hoped for by correcting the presumed glucose-induced free tryptophan increase. -
Also, while having taken the BCAAs, my previous increase from 56grs to 100grs dextrose servings seemed to have been to harsh.
I felt nausea all the time and the dextrose did not taste nice anymore but almost unbearably, undrinkably sweet.
I had been wanting to reduce the dextrose for over a week, but pushed through - waiting for improvement. And also because I was too unwilling to measure a lower serving size and count stupidly many tablespoons. (I have lots of 2 oz. / 64ml scoops which were supplied with protein powders. Once such scoop measure 50grs of dextrose.)
Eventually, I decreased to 80grs per serving. This was much more bearable.
But its effect also did not last for the full time between servings anymore.
On the plus side, this remembered me to properly eat all day.
Especially so once I stopped the appetite-suppressing BCAAs-Glycine. -
With no BCAAs-Glycine and my food intake back up (beef, lamb, haricots verts), suddenly the glucose "kicked back in":
I finally experienced that familiar physical weakness and calm tiredness for several days and got back better sleep again.
My weight is back up, sadly. In part surely also due to not being reverse-puked-empty in the intestines.
I hypothesize that it's very essential to keep eating properly while on dextrose.
I hypothesize that this is one of the reasons for the recommendation of an only gradual increase of dextrose serving sizes - to not lower intake of proper foods but supply extra energy as needed with an ever-increasing (healing) baseline. -
I now also feel the need for more thiamin (B1) for the glucose. I will increase it to double-digits with every serving.
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I continue to have profound issues with fat digestion or bile uptake. Even the slightest amount of fat in my food is terrible for me and comes out as oily BMs.
Cholestyramine did not work. I reckon it's either a mucosal (uptake) issue or maybe an amount or quality of bile issue.
I don't know what to do about the former.
For the latter (and instead of more glycine) I now take .7grs of taurine with every dextrose serving to increase my capacity for necessary bile acids conjugation (700mgs taurine is a level 1ml scoop).
As many of you may know, taurine usually (and probably especially in use pre-damaged susceptible people) absolutely shatters glucose levels. With ample glucose I am pleased to find I can now tolerate taurine.
Summary:
Currently 5-6x daily: 80-100grs dextrose + 1.5grs potassium chloride + 10mgs thiamin with low other B-vitamins + 700mgs taurine.
Making sure to eat enough meat every day.Perhaps the carnivore+dextrose type which DS briefly mentioned is particularly beneficial? Part of me expects wildly increased aging from advanced glycation end products. What relevance has weight and age appearance in the face of my daily misery, though.
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@CrumblingCookie
Thank you for the update! I wonder if many of our struggles are discussed in Dr Stephens FB video series. (Sadly, I can't access it since the great FB purge a few years ago.)Part of me expects wildly increased aging from advanced glycation end products. What relevance has weight and age appearance in the face of my daily misery, though.
I've been wondering about this too. Most people think I'm 20 years younger than my age, but my skin seems to be aging more rapidly now.
