Edema with water logged lungs / heart atrial fibrillation / pleural fluid around the lungs - approach to fix

yerrag

@Mauritio Yeah, very thankful!

Mr. X

@yerrag what do you think about adding sodium bicarbonate to the stack for my mum?
She gets potassium from pills from the hospital, now magnesium from me but she has literally no salt every food there is salt less.

And also what I think might could is haiduts pyrucet to get her faster out of lactic acidosis

What do you think?

yerrag

@Mr-X said in Edema with water logged lungs / heart atrial fibrillation / pleural fluid around the lungs - approach to fix:

@yerrag what do you think about adding sodium bicarbonate to the stack for my mum?
She gets potassium from pills from the hospital, now magnesium from me but she has literally no salt every food there is salt less.

And also what I think might could is haiduts pyrucet to get her faster out of lactic acidosis

What do you think?

From a distance, it is very hard to know what the doctors are giving your mom, much less your mom's medical history. All I know was your mom has been confined for 2 months and has progressed a lot but has issues involving her memory and speech and is confused somehow, and for me it suggested thst the treatments are leaving her in a poor state of acud base balance. And my idea isn't to get too complicated with a lot of supplementation and what not as that becomes an endless litany. I suggested thiamine and magnesium bicarbonate as a start.

Unfortunately, it appears impossible take your own magnesium bicarbonate because Germany has a shortage of usable milk of magnesia and getting magnesium hydroxide would take time.

So you make do with the situation and use magnesium of other forms, thereby the bicarbonate was left out. And now you have to make do with sodium bicarbonate. That seems reasonable, except that I'm just frustrated that you have to make amends with what the system has imposed on our choices.

You can't get carbogen, even though in Europe Linde sells it but only with prescription. But your doctor should have said no as that is not the usual protocol (a guess I make). So an end run around that lack of choice is to give your mom magnesium bicarbonate. But that is another impenetrable wall. So another end run is, as you suggest, to take sodium bicarbonate, and make a good take on it by saying she may be short on sodium and so why not? And then another end run is to take Pyrucet.

This goes back to you ending up taking a litany of supplements because a simple substance, carbon dioxide can't be breathed in via use of carbogen. The next best thing, magnesium bicarbonate is also seemingly impossible.

I guess I have no choice but to say go ahead take sodium bicarbonate. And take pyrucet also.

It feels like betting on a horse race and being told you can't bet this horse for first place, nor another for second, nor a third one for third, and I can't even win a trifecta.

But never mind about sports betting. But betting on a patient's life and chances for a healthy recovery is just plain impossible. Given the odds imposed on you.

I've been through that myself, and I can't tell you how sick to the stomach that feels. I can't expect you to fight as much as I did against the system. I fought hard for my mom because I failed to fight as hard for my dad earlier. But I was still ignorant of the system and of Peat's ideas when my dad needed me, but with my mom, I was very convinced I knew what I was doing, and a doctor had to resign because I was adamant in not following her. When my mom recovered from what the doctor diagnosed as a certain coma that she considered permanent and suggested for my mom to go to the hospice to await her time, I was happy to see streams of interns visiting my mom as she was exhibit A of a patient who recovered from a hopeless case. I never asked, but I wondered if they knew that it was the food blend I made that contained magnesium that made the difference between her heading back home walking and lucid, and her facing final judgment at the hospice. When I thanked Ray Peat in an email, he was very happy to hear of it.

That is the hospital system which epitomizes the sad condition we are all in.

By the way, the potassium pill they give her - is just to make up for the wasting of potassium due to the diuretics they gave her to make her release the water in her lungs and everywhere else there is edema. But I have no idea how that is done, but it is painful dealing with the cramps that is part of using diuretic. I hope some day someone can explain that, and Ray likely would have- if he were still with us.

yerrag

@Mr-X

As far as Pyrucet goes, I give that idea a thumbs down. It is risky.

It purports to make the GSSG/GSH go very high, but what haidut does not say is that a high GSH/GSSG ratio is needed to make our mucus thin instead of thick. This may just make your mom's lungs stuck with mucus and this would interfere with her breathing. Isn't your mom dealing with COPD? Pyrucet may just aggravate her COPD condition.

As fsr your mom undergoing dialysis, did she get started on it after hospital admission, or way before?

cs3000

@Mr-X
in a similar situation i would go lower with the thiamine even, and with the mag and vit D too i would take it lower, at least initially if taking, as can become problematic in low energy states
theres a lot of complexities tho, and a lot going on

Does she still have an infection / still on antibiotics?
is she getting some glucose/carbs & amino acids?

yerrag

@yerrag said in Edema with water logged lungs / heart atrial fibrillation / pleural fluid around the lungs - approach to fix:

@Mr-X

As far as Pyrucet goes, I give that idea a thumbs down. It is risky.

It purports to make the GSSG/GSH go very high, but what haidut does not say is that a high GSH/GSSG ratio is needed to make our mucus thin instead of thick. This may just make your mom's lungs stuck with mucus and this would interfere with her breathing. Isn't your mom dealing with COPD? Pyrucet may just aggravate her COPD condition.

As fsr your mom undergoing dialysis, did she get started on it after hospital admission, or way before?

@Mr-X

I guess I must have talked over you w/r to the GSSG/GSH and GSH/GSSG ratio. An explanation needs to be made.

Haidut wanted to make a supplement that favors sugar metabolism at the expense of fat metabolism. He made pyrucet. He explains his reasoning behind the use of ethyl pyruvate and ethyl acetoacetate, saying that each of these two components would increase the GSSG/GSH ratio. He justifies this by saying in cancers the GSSG/GSH ratio is low.

GSSG is oxidized glutathione. GSH is reduced glutathione.

Is a high GSSG/GSH ratio always good? According to his reasoning behind Pyrucet, it seems so, as he never mentions when a low GSSG/GSH is beneficial.

Reduced glutathione, as some of us know, is an antioxidant and protects our cell boundaries [I avoid the use of membrane as respect for Gilbert Ling] from destruction by ROS.

The body is fine when the GSSG/GSH is at a level where it protects from oxidation as well as allows oxidative metabolism to proceed. Having to unnecessarily alter this ratio just because one wants to favor sugar metabolism over fatty acid metabolism is an exercise in hubris. Thinking intervention by man is better than relying on the wisdom of the body, without really the consequences aka side-effects of that intervention. Putting in kindly. Putting it in worse terms, it may involve omitting information that is detrimental to pushing one's advocacy of a product.

Knowing your mom has COPD, involving the lungs, where mucus is involved in blocking gas exchange in the alveoli/bronchi/lungs, won't you rather have low GSSG/GSH (or high GSH/GSSG) ratio so that the mucus would be thin (high sulfhydryl or SH bonds) rather than thick (high disulfide or SS bonds)? Won't using Pyrucet risk worsening your mom's lung condition?

Mr. X

@yerrag

Thanks for all of your help.

Yesterday when I came she was so nervous panicy. She talks all the time that she wants to go home. I can understand after 2 1/2 months in the same room same bed never was outside since then. Couldn’t speak clearly told weird stuff let me first change my clothes before were going home the want to poison me here and so on i was so in shock
She was so nervous, i put out magnoil and ithink i squeezed 25-30 drops on here legs.

What a hell of a transformation in 30 minutes. She was calm was speaking full sentences we looked sport on TV she remembered old players and so on. Eyes where open, we could sit for half an hour on the bed.

Also 3 different nurses said wow she so good today than long time before.

than i put 5 drops of energin on her. One squeeze of Glass pimpette of vitamin d oil

And gave her her multivitamin pill / 125mg thiamine hcl / 150mg benfothiamine

She felt asleep into deep sleep since yesterday she also dont need the oyxgen machine anymore. She got 96% SPo2 oxygen tested on the machine from the nurse. Im so glad because I saw a thread on RPF yesterday how toxic oxygen is for the brain.

I think the most common issues at the moment
she has a little bit of heart valve inflammation also after 6 weeks of antiobiotics IV. COPD was before, the kidneys are weak but its also known long before chronically but was so worst that by the start of the last week she put her on dialysys.

I want to help her for the heart valve inflammation. I think next they will also stop the IV antibiotics. What do you guys think of Vitamin E (TocoVit) for this purpose? Anti estrogen, anti inflammatory, energy promoter.

What she has before hypothyroidism. (only gets t4 so I also thinking givin her 1mcg of t3 to start with maybe next week)
Panic and anxiety shes takin SSNRI Venlafaxin and oxazepam
high blood pressure shes gettin beta blocker and other blood pressure medication.

I let go on the idea of pyrucet

I think today i hold back on the b1 to 125mg and 75mg benfothiamine

I cant give here energin because the nurses saw their yellow stain on her legs 2 days in the row. I wanted to put it on wash it off after 1 hour but they came before unfortunately.

Takeaway from yesterday u can throw all your mag pills away the days before i gave her 450 mag bisglyicinate pills saw not so good improvement. I think the only option to get magnesium into our body is either haiduts magnoil topically with DMSO or magnesium bicarbonate. But thats hard in germany because of lack of milk of magnesia

Mr. X

today when I came she was clear minded could speak full sentences but shes crying a lot and really sad she wants to be @home again.

@yerrag what do you guys think in terms of mood what would help her beside my stack.

Razvan

@Mr-X progesterone in water to up her mood.

Mr. X

@Razvan I thought about it. But im scared because all of the drugs she is using. Venlafaxin (SSNRI) & Oxazepam (Benzo) all these interactions also with the kidney dialysis thats why I dont wanted to mess with hormones, that was also the reason why I just started the supplements only 3 days ago. But now she is fine also with her mood. One Nurse said its a miracle how good she has became the last 3 days.

yerrag

@Mr-X said in Edema with water logged lungs / heart atrial fibrillation / pleural fluid around the lungs - approach to fix:

today when I came she was clear minded could speak full sentences but shes crying a lot and really sad she wants to be @home again.

@yerrag what do you guys think in terms of mood what would help her beside my stack.

haribo gummy bear? two months in the hospital takes its toll. knowing she is getting better and she can go home soon will perk her up. does she like head cheese sausage? or some other comfort food?

Mr. X

@yerrag I‘ll bring her every day sweets, cakes, coke, oj, döner, some burger. Because she isnt eating much of the food in the hospital. So i bring everything what she likes. For tmrw she asked me to bring a fresh pizza with tonno and onion and garlic. I will bring her tmrw

yerrag

@Mr-X said in Edema with water logged lungs / heart atrial fibrillation / pleural fluid around the lungs - approach to fix:

@yerrag

Thanks for all of your help.

Yesterday when I came she was so nervous panicy. She talks all the time that she wants to go home. I can understand after 2 1/2 months in the same room same bed never was outside since then. Couldn’t speak clearly told weird stuff let me first change my clothes before were going home the want to poison me here and so on i was so in shock
She was so nervous, i put out magnoil and ithink i squeezed 25-30 drops on here legs.

What a hell of a transformation in 30 minutes. She was calm was speaking full sentences we looked sport on TV she remembered old players and so on. Eyes where open, we could sit for half an hour on the bed.

Also 3 different nurses said wow she so good today than long time before.

than i put 5 drops of energin on her. One squeeze of Glass pimpette of vitamin d oil

And gave her her multivitamin pill / 125mg thiamine hcl / 150mg benfothiamine

She felt asleep into deep sleep since yesterday she also dont need the oyxgen machine anymore. She got 96% SPo2 oxygen tested on the machine from the nurse. Im so glad because I saw a thread on RPF yesterday how toxic oxygen is for the brain.

I think the most common issues at the moment
she has a little bit of heart valve inflammation also after 6 weeks of antiobiotics IV. COPD was before, the kidneys are weak but its also known long before chronically but was so worst that by the start of the last week she put her on dialysys.

I want to help her for the heart valve inflammation. I think next they will also stop the IV antibiotics. What do you guys think of Vitamin E (TocoVit) for this purpose? Anti estrogen, anti inflammatory, energy promoter.

What she has before hypothyroidism. (only gets t4 so I also thinking givin her 1mcg of t3 to start with maybe next week)
Panic and anxiety shes takin SSNRI Venlafaxin and oxazepam
high blood pressure shes gettin beta blocker and other blood pressure medication.

I let go on the idea of pyrucet

I think today i hold back on the b1 to 125mg and 75mg benfothiamine

I cant give here energin because the nurses saw their yellow stain on her legs 2 days in the row. I wanted to put it on wash it off after 1 hour but they came before unfortunately.

Takeaway from yesterday u can throw all your mag pills away the days before i gave her 450 mag bisglyicinate pills saw not so good improvement. I think the only option to get magnesium into our body is either haiduts magnoil topically with DMSO or magnesium bicarbonate. But thats hard in germany because of lack of milk of magnesia

I'm concerned she started dialysis as doctors don't know squat about acid base balance and it doesn't get better the longer she stays in the hospital the worse and her more acidic her ecf is. The longer the acidic condition holds up, the worse it is for the organs as they calcify, especially the kidneys. the meds are a major cause of it unfortunately.
one day she's being treated for this, and next day it's another it's like playing whack-a-mole except it's not fun. and it's also like a roller coaster of one day she's on a high and the next few days she'll be sleeping endlessly. doctors are used to seeing patients that way and are desensitized to their plight and soon they treat it as normal. They truly have no idea.

But it's not easy going home either because .ost people are so dependent on doctors and they're helpless. And caring for elders is not easy either.

The better ones know more about nutrition from food and can cook.