Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?

Mossy

@wester130 said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

@Mossy you can add it in instead of glycine

Thank you. Do you have any experience with Threonine? I'm curious of any side effects you may have experienced.

Mossy

@LucH said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

@Mossy said in Consensus on a good Vitamin C source?:

I assume gelatin powder or straight glycine could replace

Yes, when taking 10 g glycine, you only assimilate 2 g (20 %). (Study given by Haidut)
I'd take the half dose in the shake (5 g powder).

Thank you.

jd_au

Ugh. This vitamin C issue has done my head in. I read amazing stuff from the Linus Pauling crowd about the benefits of high dose vitamin C. People taking 20-30g a day for years, reversing various health issues etc. I also read Nathan Hatch's writings on it. Whilst I don't agree with him on everything, his stuff on Vitamin C was compelling. He advocates for a natural, acerola-based version, acknowledging that many synthetic versions cause issues. But he also suggests aiming for at least a few grams a day, which is hard to do with acerola and stupidly expensive.

Over the years I have tried at least 7 different Vitamin C brands. Regular, cheap ascorbic acid. Scottish Quali-C. Sodium Ascorbate. A non-corn based, tapioca starch version. Two different versions of acerola. They ALL end up giving me wretched side effects. Runny nose, stuffy throat, aching legs, nausea. Some even lead to my throat feeling constricted which was scary. I have serious doubts about the quality of Quali-C, which gave me a blocked nose and made me sound like I had a permanent cold. The best run I had was with sodium ascorbate. I felt amazing on it for 2 weeks but then the side effects came. With acerola, I don't get any side effects on 500mg. But when I pushed to 2 grams as an experiment, I felt AWFUL. Like I'd poisoned myself. And with taking just 500mg, I don't actually feel any improvement at all, and the whole point of my vitamin C experiment was to try to mega dose it to see if it can improve my health.

I'm about ready to give up and I'm so disappointed. I really believe the research, the testimonies. And for 2 short weeks on the sodium ascorbate, I honestly felt the best I had in years. Normal, in fact. I thought I'd finally backed a winner. Nathan Hatch believes vitamin C is so crucial for health and healing, that if you're low, taking other supps is kinda pointless cos your body can't utilise them properly. I have taken aspirin for years and I believe it depletes vitamin C. So i'm a good candidate for taking moderate to high doses, but for the life of me I just can't find a brand that I can tolerate.

There is a C-salts one that is non-corn based and contains no fillers. But they have paired it with zinc, potassium and calcium, and I am not a fan of supplementing things like zinc and calcium - they have a high chance of causing nausea. The tapioca one is the most recent one I've tried - no corn, no silicon dioxide. But sadly it made me feel off right from the jump.

Anyway, ramble over. I envy the people who tolerate Quali-C with no issues. I wish I could join the club but it's not to be.

LucH

@jd_au said:

He advocates for a natural, acerola-based version, acknowledging that many synthetic versions cause issues.

Most sellers lie when manufacturing 500 mg vitamin C from acerola. You've haven't got 500 mg "natural" L-ascorbic acid. They add he half synthetic one.
And when someone wants to buy the synthetic one, he should mind some caveats:
When you buy synthetic vitamin C in powder (L-ascorbic acid), you should check the following information on the certificate of guarantee:

CAS No.: 50-81-7
This is how a molecule is identified, by its CAS No.
CAS = Registration No. with the Chemical Abstracts Service (CAS) database.
Stereochemistry (optical rotation): between 20.5 and 21.5°.
If we have characteristics 1 and 3 mentioned, it's OK. Otherwise, you're polluting your body with 50% harmful substances. And it's even higher according to some sources (12.5% absorbable).
Heavy metals: less than 10 ppm total, and as little mercury as possible, i.e., 0.001 Hg. Never more than 5 ppm per mL, taken individually, per metal.
Tolerance standard for mercury: 1 ppm (part per million), which is a level of 1/1,000,000 or 0.0001%, if I'm converting correctly.

If you buy vitamin C in large quantities, some well-established suppliers in the protein supplement market turn a deaf ear when you ask for a quality certificate. Vertical ranking, in this case.
LucH

wester130

@Mossy threonine is wonderful for dreams

jd_au

@LucH thank you for that. Super helpful. I've emailed one manufacturer to ask whether they put silicon dioxide in theirs. It's not listed in the ingredients, but in Australia where I'm from, by law you don't have to list excipients if they're less than 1% of the total (not sure if that's a global thing). There is one Aussie brand of acerola powder that claims it's 'all natural' and gives 500mg of ascorbic acid per dose, with no added synthetics. I'm a bit skeptical. I might email and ask for their fine print.

Your comment helps explain to me why so many companies selling supposedly 'clean', 'pure' vitamin C products still cause a bad reaction.

I imagine most companies aren't keen on providing the fine print when asked. Will see how I go.

jd_au

I've also come to realise that cheap, synthetic ascorbic acid is put into almost every fruit juice at my supermarket. And in every canned fruit, except for one brand (unless it's added and they simply don't list it). I've literally only found one brand of pure, pulpless orange juice that has no added ascorbic acid.

People could be chugging down this stuff and not even realising it's the cause of their stuffy nose, sinus issues, reflux or joint aches.

LucH

@jd_au said:

Your comment helps explain to me why so many companies selling supposedly 'clean', 'pure' vitamin C products still cause a bad reaction.

Ya, half rubbish if not Quali-C or the same kind (N° CAS).
Heavy metals (HM) must be under 10 ppm or 0.001 % for the whole part, and 0.0002 per HM.
Mind mercury (Hg) if high dose.

Useful one:

Doctor's Best, Poudre de vitamine C pure avec Q-C, 250 g
https://be.iherb.com/pr/doctor-s-best-pure-vitamin-c-powder-with-q-c-8-8-oz-250-g/54796
Origine : écosse (labo DSM)
19.67 € en 05/2026, TVA incluse

NB: I've written an article (powder vs liposomal) with other sources (to buy). Need a translator.
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2195-vitamine-c-poudre-vs-liposomale-laquelle-choisir#30777

LetTheRedeemed

@jd_au any research indicating there could be some sorta die-off?

jd_au

@LetTheRedeemed always possible. There is interesting research about vitamin C opposing endotoxin. If someone has been severely deficient in vitamin C and running on sky high endotoxin, suddenly taking high dose vitamin C could be quite the jolt to the body.

Honestly though I think for me it's more likely a reaction to either the crappy corn-based supplements or else silicon dioxide, which is in the vast majority of vitamin C brands, including many that fail to list it in their ingredients.

CrumblingCookie

@jd_au By the sounds of it you may be mainly functionally copper deficient to explain your eventual (not immediate) reactions to all kinds of v-c.
In fruitjuices, manufacturers usually claim to only supplement an amount of v-c which equals the amount lost during (heat)processing. The more insidious reactants in fruitjuices can be the fungal-derived enzymes used in the context of precipitation and clearance. Such additites are exempt from label declarations.

jd_au

@CrumblingCookie interesting info re fruit juices. Yeah I've been thinking about copper. I know the warnings, esp from Morley Robbins. There's some push back on the research he based his belief on that I came across on the old RP forum. Tbh I mainly seem to run into trouble with vit c when I push to a mega dose of 15-20g (sounds crazy to some, but bear in mind the Pauling/orthomecular crowd took 20g+ per day for decades. Some people take as much as 90g a day). I've had another go at supplementing, but capping it at 5-6g a day, and so far the side effects have been minimal & I'm feeling a big boost in mood and energy. Especially mood, which is most welcome. And my toes are toasty, which is good timing given winter's fast on the approach where I live. So in the end it might be a simple matter of dosage. Will keep experimenting.

LucH

@jd_au said:

I have serious doubts about the quality of Quali-C, which gave me a blocked nose and made me sound like I had a permanent cold.

It seems as if you were having a Herxheimer reaction, often called a health-crisis.

LetTheRedeemed

@jd_au glad you’re feeling good, it reminds me to get some

jd_au

@LucH I don't think so. My reaction is very much in line with Ray's comments over the years about seeing lots of people have the same allergic reaction to synthetic vitamin c. It stops as soon as one stops the supplement. It's either the crappy corn-based production process or the silica that's in almost all brands. It's important to note that, whilst Quali-C might be better than some other brands, it is still manufactured from corn, which Ray wasn't a fan of.

LetTheRedeemed

@jd_au @luch i wonder how hard it would be to make our own

jd_au

@LetTheRedeemed I wonder. Probably very! It's a shame there are so many awful brands out there. I've done so much research into vitamin C. I know Ray wasn't a fan of mega dosing it, but high doses have helped so many people over the years, in dire straits with their health, when nothing else moved the needle. The last few days I've been holding at 5-6g a day and no adverse effects. Just warm toes, improved energy and lifted mood. Fingers crossed.

LetTheRedeemed

@jd_au what brand are you using?

LucH

@LetTheRedeemed said:

i wonder how hard it would be to make our own

Forget this. See the link (study).
For all other readers, with help of AI (only in the second part). No need to say we have to be suspicious with AI. I agree. Control is required from another source
Additional intolerance causes to vitamin C
When taking HD Vit C powder (e.g. 20 g or more), some people may react to these facts, supposing it’s the right kind (N° CAS and HM appropriate):

L-ascorbic acid has been made from wheat (cross-reaction with gluten). Rare.
L-ascorbic acid has been made from corn. Aspergillus niger mold. Intolerance to fungus trace is possible. Possible but very tiny. How much mercury is left too (Hg). Even 1 ppm is too high (0.00001 %).
Excerpt:
Even if the final molecule is “vitamin C,” people who react to corn may still have issues depending on sourcing, processing, and trace residues.
L-ascorbic acid from a chemical source (from GMO corn or not) or from orange fruit / acerola is the same molecule (if we avoid add-on).

AI says (Gemini)
NB: I’ve re-framed Gemini. Tendency to cut hair into 4 pieces.
• The molecule is identical. Industrially produced L-ascorbic acid is structurally the same as vitamin C from food. The body cannot tell the difference.
• Aspergillus niger is a process tool, not an ingredient. It is used in a fermentation step and removed during purification — calling the final product "made from black mold" / fungus is a misrepresentation.
Corn-sensitive individuals occasionally report reactions, though whether this is from trace residues or another cause is rarely confirmed analytically.
• Real reactions, when they occur, are contaminant-driven. At high doses, trace residues (fungal, corn-derived, or heavy metals) could plausibly trigger sensitivity in susceptible individuals — but this is an impurity issue, not a flaw in ascorbic acid itself.
• The practical answer is sourcing, not avoidance. A rigorous certificate of analysis (heavy metals, residual solvents, microbial content) and non-corn-derived alternatives (tapioca, beet-based) address legitimate concerns without the misleading framing.

LucH says:
Better so expressed. Comment on Quali-C (famous Scottish lable). No need to develop. Just target the security process.
AI says:
Quali-C (DSM, Dalry, Scotland) is the benchmark reference in the industry precisely because of its security process:

Non-corn sourced — uses a different raw material pathway, avoiding the main contamination concern.
Pharmaceutical-grade manufacturing — GMP-certified, with batch traceability from raw input to final powder.
Strict CoA per batch — heavy metals, residual solvents, microbial load, and purity all documented and verifiable.
EU regulatory oversight — subject to European pharmaceutical standards, generally more stringent than those applied to Chinese bulk suppliers dominating the market.
It is the default recommendation precisely because the security chain is auditable end to end.

Additional info (LucH):
How is the vitamin C quali-C from DSM made? (Labo DSM-Firmenich)
Quali-C is a labeled vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) made in Scotland. Vit C is manufactured via a multi-step fermentation process beginning with glucose derived from non-GMO European wheat and corn. There is a strict traceability.
Production Process Details:
• Raw Material: The process begins with glucose, sourced from non-GMO corn/wheat, which is then fermented to create sorbose.
• Fermentation: The production uses a fermentation process to convert materials into 2-keto-L-gulonic acid (2-KGA), a precursor to vitamin C.
• Refining & Crystallization: This 2-KGA is refined and crystallized through multiple controlled steps to produce high-purity L-ascorbic acid.
• Location: All production occurs at the company's plant in Dalry, Scotland, which has produced vitamin C for over 40 years, ensuring high pharmaceutical-grade standards. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Key Characteristics of Quali-C:
• Sustainability: Quali-C has the lowest carbon footprint for ascorbic acid production, with 65% lower GHG emissions compared to typical Chinese-produced vitamin C.
• Quality Control: The plant in Dalry operates under strict European quality standards, fully automated to ensure traceability.
• Traceability: The raw material can be traced back to its origin, providing assurance regarding the non-GMO, safe, and ethical production. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Note1: Quali-C is produced via a fermentation process, but it is a highly controlled, efficient, and sustainable method rather than the traditional, less refined methods often associated with mass-produced vitamin C.
doi: 10.1128/aem.01212-22 Appl Environ Microbiol. 2022. Qian Zhang , Shuxia Lyu.
In industrial production, the precursor of l-ascorbic acid (L-AA, also referred to as vitamin C), 2-keto-l-gulonic acid (2-KLG), is mainly produced using a classic two-step fermentation process performed by Gluconobacter oxydans, Bacillus megaterium, and Ketogulonicigenium vulgare.

What about contaminant-driven material?
In USA, vitamin C is often made from corn syrup.
While nearly 90% of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is produced from genetically modified (GMO) corn starch via fermentation, concerns about contaminant-driven material usually focus on processing agents used to refine the corn and chemical intermediates in the synthesis.
Key issues raised regarding potential contaminants include:
• Manufacturing Chemicals: Industrial production of ascorbic acid often involves acetone (used as a solvent), sulfuric acid, and hydrogen gas. While these are used in the process, they are generally purified out of the final product.
• Heavy Metals: Studies on nutritional supplements have found that Vitamin C can be contaminated with trace heavy metals, such as mercury (Hg) and chromium (Cr), added unintentionally during the production process or storage.
NB (LucH): 1 ppm (0.0001%) of Hg in ascorbic acid powder is not always detectable (control labo) but is however problematical. This accumulated residue impact the enzyme pathway (thyroid).
• GMO Residuals: Because it is derived from genetically modified corn, some concern exists regarding residual GMO bacterial material from the fermentation process, such as Ketogulonicigenium vulgare.
• Glyphosate: Concerns exist about potential trace residues of glyphosate (a herbicide used on GMO crops) in the final ascorbic acid product.
• Benzene Formation: If ascorbic acid is paired with benzoate salts in beverages exposed to heat and light, it can lead to the formation of benzene, a known carcinogen

Contaminant Levels and Safety
A 2023 study found that elemental impurities like cadmium (Cd), lead (Pb), and arsenic (As) were below detection limits in many, but not all, tested supplements.
However, for those concerned with additives or sourcing, options like tapioca-derived vitamin C are available.
Answer from IA (Google):
The concern regarding (1ppm) (0.0001 %) of mercury (Hg) in ascorbic acid is scientifically supported, particularly regarding its accumulation and impact on thyroid health. While 1ppm is a very low concentration, often near the limit of detection (LOD) for standard laboratory, it can present significant health risks due to chronic exposure and accumulation, even if standard testing methods occasionally fail to identify it. [1, 2]

Impact on Thyroid Enzyme Pathways
Mercury has a high affinity for thyroid tissue and interferes with the endocrine system through several mechanisms:
• Deiodinase Antagonism: Mercury inhibits deiodinase enzymes, which are responsible for converting T4 (thyroxine) to the active T3 (triiodothyronine) hormone.
• Selenium Depletion: Mercury binds to selenium, an essential element for thyroid function and antioxidant defense. This interaction reduces selenium availability, disrupting thyroid hormone synthesis and increasing oxidative damage.
• Binding to Thyroid Cells: Mercury can accumulate in thyroid follicles, leading to autoimmune reactions, increased TSH levels, and reduced T3 / T4 levels, potentially causing hypothyroidism.
Detectability in Control Labs
• Detection Challenges: Routine laboratory methods may struggle to consistently detect Hg at low levels (<0.1 ppm) or (<100 ppb) in some food-grade applications), as the detection limits can vary based on the method and sample matrix.
• Trace Analysis: More precise techniques like ICP-MS (Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry) are generally required to reliably detect and quantify low-ppm or ppb levels of heavy metals. [1, 2]

Bioaccumulation Risk in Summary
The presence of 1 ppm Hg is problematic due to its cumulative and detrimental impact on thyroid function, specifically by interfering with iodine incorporation and selenium-dependent enzymes.