Best remedies and interventions for receding gums?
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methylene blue mouth wash and rubbing k2 mk4 oil on your gums
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@SpaceManJim - Oil pulling appears to be a helpful.
Effect of coconut oil in plaque related gingivitis—A preliminary report - 2015 -
Has anyone tried DMSO?
My experience thus far. Is nothing actually works. At least none of the typical interventions that people do. I am unconvinced that there is general microbiome dysbiosis.
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There isn't one. The recession of gums has nothing to do with soft plaque.
Preventing soft plaque is not going to cause that tissue to grow back as the enzymes that have been released into that tissue like collagenase, elastase, fibrinase, and inflammatory biomarkers like TNFa are there to stay as long as the biofilms are there to stay.
If you try and push the biofilms out with aggressive antibiotic usage then the biofilms push back by releasing more enzymes to breakdown more of the tissue for them to feed upon. It seems like in theory if you could somehow improve immunity to be hyper resistant against oral pathogens then the oral cavity would be in such an environment that elements of that microbiome that might aid in tissue regeneration might be able to flourish. Microbiome science is in its infancy though even now, so no such thing has been discovered as of yet and everything points to the fact that once a non-complimentary biofilm has taken root in a tissue that isn't your gut, it's there to stay for the longhaul. Doing things for your gut will improve immunity, but given that the bacteria that inhabit the oral cavity have nothing to do with the gut, probiotics and such is not doing much of anything for the situation, and antibiotics will definitely make the situation worse. Sub-clinical doses of doxycycline, about 20mg a day have been found to prevent the bone resorption though accelerated by the biofilms in plaques and oral tissue by inhibiting MMP's which will lessen the rate of decay below the gum line which might lessen gum recession
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@Serotoninskeptic said in Best remedies and interventions for receding gums?:
Vitamin K2 and coconut oil pulling
Well seen.
Protocol for healthy gums in three steps!- Reduction of gingival inflammation.
- Deep descaling
- Maintenance and regeneration of damaged tissues.
1° Mouthwash
a) Oil pulling (simply olive oil, better with coconut oil) every 2 hours (minimum 6x) (*)
b) Idem with essential oil, 3 x/d. 4/7 days, according to evolution. Lavendula vera and helichrysum Italian.
10 ml oil
40 % EO (40 drops x 2)
Source: Pénoël & Franchomme
- Effect of coconut oil in plaque related gingivitis—A preliminary report - 2015
https://journals.lww.com/nimj/fulltext/2015/56020/effect_of_coconut_oil_in_plaque_related_gingivitis.12.aspx
2° Scaling once a year at the dentist.
Monitor the bottom of the tooth, at the base of the gum, most effective with a rotating toothbrush, as soon as there is sufficient improvement.3° Useful nutrients
Vit D (bones and immunity)
K2 tartar prevention + dentin
Key ideas:- Via the activation of osteocalcin, vitamin K2 promotes the growth of dentin (calcified tissue that underlies the enamel layer of teeth), and as new dentin develops, cavities are less likely to form. Dentin is like ivory, which can regenerate if the cofactors are present, notably the fat-soluble vitamins A D3 and K2.
- We have a trillion bacteria in the oral cavity. Vitamin K2 helps maintain environmental balance (via pH, antioxidant effect and good health of soft tissues).
- To illustrate the impact of vitamin K2 on the oral microbiome, Weston Price conducted a simple experiment several times. He treated patients with a butter oil very rich in vitamin K2 and found that cavity-promoting bacteria decreased by up to 95%, and sometimes disappeared completely.
Source: From “Vitamin K2 Benefits for Dental Health”
By Mark BURHENNE, DDS (dentist)
https://askthedentist.com/vitamin-k2-benefits/
Excerpt:
Here’s a more thorough explanation of the benefits of vitamin K2:
- Builds New Dentin
Because osteocalcin is a K2-dependent protein, increasing vitamin K2 intake causes osteocalcin to work more efficiently. (11) When osteocalcin is activated by K2, it causes the growth of fresh dentin (calcified tissue that underlies the enamel layer of teeth), and when new dentin grows, cavities are less likely to form. (12, 13) (Note that this process also requires vitamins A and D.) (14) - Slows Tooth Degradation
- Leads to Normal Facial Structure
See Weston A. Price to understand why K2 is important for facial development - Kills Cavity-Causing Bacteria
One key factor in cavity formation is the disruption of the oral microbiome.
To illustrate the impact of vitamin K2 on the oral microbiome, Price repeatedly conducted a simple experiment. He treated patients with a butter oil very rich in vitamin K2 and found that the cavity-promoting bacteria was decreased by up to 95 percent, sometimes going away altogether.
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Have you tried xylitol?
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@SpaceManJim said in Best remedies and interventions for receding gums?:
Has anyone had this and been able to make positive progress reversing (not just halting) the issue? (Didn't find anything on search for this site.)
What would make sense to do besides switching to a softer toothbrush?
Hopefully we can put together some info that'll be helpful for others as well.
Cheers
Not human but I had success reversing my dog Bee’s gum recession with an herbal tincture called Heal All developed by Dr. Robert Morse, a doctor whose protocol I was following at the time. Bee’s gum recession was so bad that the roots of his canines were visible and despite routine brushing and a high quality diet, his teeth became caked with plaque after a surgery to remove a lump on his eyelid so the vet scheduled him for a tooth extraction and cleaning, but within just 2 days of giving him Heal All once a day his halitosis was gone, and within months all plaque was gone too and his gum recession had fully reversed, and at his follow up visit the vet made no mention of the fact that Bee had been scheduled for a tooth extraction and cleaning just months prior, his dental health was perfect. I’ve used it with success for many conditions. It contains the herbs white oak bark, plantain leaf, black walnut hull, chaparral, burdock root, marshmallow root, comfrey leaf and root.
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@Jennifer said in Best remedies and interventions for receding gums?:
@SpaceManJim said in Best remedies and interventions for receding gums?:
Has anyone had this and been able to make positive progress reversing (not just halting) the issue? (Didn't find anything on search for this site.)
What would make sense to do besides switching to a softer toothbrush?
Hopefully we can put together some info that'll be helpful for others as well.
Cheers
Not human but I had success reversing my dog Bee’s gum recession with an herbal tincture called Heal All developed by Dr. Robert Morse, a doctor whose protocol I was following at the time. Bee’s gum recession was so bad that the roots of his canines were visible and despite routine brushing and a high quality diet, his teeth became caked with plaque after a surgery to remove a lump on his eyelid so the vet scheduled him for a tooth extraction and cleaning, but within just 2 days of giving him Heal All once a day his halitosis was gone, and within months all plaque was gone too and his gum recession had fully reversed, and at his follow up visit the vet made no mention of the fact that Bee had been scheduled for a tooth extraction and cleaning just months prior, his dental health was perfect. I’ve used it with success for many conditions. It contains the herbs white oak bark, plantain leaf, black walnut hull, chaparral, burdock root, marshmallow root, comfrey leaf and root.
That is pretty miraculous. I see a Heal All Tincture on Dr. Morse's website, but the ingredients are slightly different. I'm guessing they've updated that product:
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@Mossy, he only uses wildcrafted and consciously cultivated herbs so he occasionally makes substitutions based on availability, however, the herbs in his Heal All formula have stayed consistent. I’ve been buying it since 2015 and the product you posted doesn’t have the same label:
Going by his new website, he’s creating a new line so my thinking is he may have sold the old line to one of his sources for herbs:
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@Jennifer
Really appreciate the detail. Would you mind sharing the routine you used for your dog? I don't bark too loud, but I'm thinking of trying it! -
@Mossy said in Best remedies and interventions for receding gums?:
@Jennifer
Really appreciate the detail. Would you mind sharing the routine you used for your dog? I don't bark too loud, but I'm thinking of trying it!Haha! Well, Bee was following the same program as me, even ate a similar diet, so humans can certainly benefit from it, too. He started out on the Heal All tea—about 1/4 cup added to his food 3x a day, then I switched him over to the Heal All glycerin tincture out of convenience. For dosing the tincture, there's a guide on the back that goes by weight. Bee was a little guy, a Maltese no more than 18 lb, so he got 1/4 of a dropper full 3x a day or 3/4 of a dropper full all at once, first thing in the morning, if I wasn’t going to be home to administer multiple doses. For comparison, at 99 lb, I was taking 1 dropper full 3x a day. His diet was composed of all his favorite foods that fit within Dr. Morse’s and Ray's dietary recommendations for dogs, as well as Dewitt's, a member on the old Peatarian forum whose family raised German Shepherds, and info I found on the website rationalmonofeeding.com. He ate melons, bananas, apples, squash, cucumber, carrots, green beans, sprouted peas, baby lettuces, young coconut meat, coconut cream, eggs, sea scallops and to drink, he loved raw coconut water, and I supplemented his diet with eggshell powder.
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@Jennifer
Thank you. So the benefit to the gums was purely from consuming the supplement, not rinsing or applying on the gums? I think what I will do is buy the Heal All tea, which must be the base for the Heal All tincture, and make my own tincture from it, using vodka.P.S. I plan on adding a bloodroot tincture as well. I've read good things about that for gums. Coincidentally, @Mauritio has noted that bloodroot is a "potent progestogen".
"To desire action is to desire limitation" — G. K. Chesterton
"The true step of health and improvement is slow." — Novalis -
@Mossy cool, let me know how it goes with bloodroot. I haven't tried it yet.
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You’re welcome, @Mossy.
Yes, solely from ingesting the Heal All. It works systemically, and we want it to work systemically because every symptom/condition is a manifestation of overall dysfunction within the body so, for example, if there is atrophied tissue like that of gum disease, there’s likely to be thyroid dysfunction, since the thyroid/parathyroid glands are the main glands responsible for the integrity of our tissues.Dr. Morse includes bloodroot in his most aggressive formulas for conditions like cancer, and it’s the active ingredient in the potentially caustic drawing salve 'black salve.' People have used it to draw out tumors and left burns, holes even, in their skin, and it has strong laxative properties so you may want to use caution with it. In my experience, there are more forgiving herbs for oral health and progesterone production. Dr. Morse has endocrine formulas, and one specifically for women that raised my progesterone level, confirmed via blood work, just as well as high doses (a bottle a week) of Progest-E, but without the side-effects I get from Progest-E.
I have stood on a mountain of no’s for one yes. ~ B. Smith
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Following this thread
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@Jennifer
That detail helps, thank you. Maybe I'll start with taking the tea, and make a small amount of tincture from the tea base for future testing.I have read that bloodroot is very strong and stories similar to what you mention, where it was too caustic, but that was the black salve. My thought is to buy a pre-made tincture with it, so it would be already diluted. Either that, or make my own tincture with vodka and just make sure It's diluted.
That is exactly my objective with the pro-progesterone aspects of bloodroot: to get the benefits of progesterone without what I'd call feminizing effects that Progest-E gives me.
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@Mossy, I think your plan is sound. If you find you aren’t tolerating bloodroot or even the Heal All tea, as mentioned above, there’s always oregano. It’s effective for oral conditions like gum disease and raising progesterone levels and in an email exchange, Ray said it’s one of the safest spices:
“[Oregano oil] It's one of the safest spices (low allergenicity, not mutagenic or carcinogenic), so if it isn't combined with harmful excipients it seems worth trying.” Ray Peat
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@Jennifer
I have a hope that the tea will be the mildest of all my options — meaning, no bad side effects. I do remember reading about oregano on RPF and someone having good results for gums and oral health. I have made an extract with oregano in vodka, but gargling and rinsing with it was so harsh it got me sick. I may test that again, more diluted. I do have the oil diluted as well. Oregano is such a potent herb, I think I conveniently forgot about it after my experience with it. For me. it doesn't have the appeal of other spices where its scent and taste are appealing, like cinnamon, anise, or cardamom. Even strong clove I think is a more appealing than oregano. Even so, I will put it back on my list of things to retry. I wasn't aware of the progesterone properties of it. That is good to know — and good to know Peat likes it. -
@Mossy, I think you’re wise to go by what herbs appeal to you. That’s something I do and something even Dr. Morse, a man who has a love for all herbs, suggests. In regards to oregano’s potency, I’ve used pharmaceutical grade oregano oil from Greece that leaked and melted the plastic box it came in, it was that strong, and it was just as harsh on my insides (lol) so I understand what you mean. The only way I will take oregano now is in the form of an infusion/tea or the raw herb sprinkled in my food for flavoring.
Some assume the greater the potency, the greater the healing or that if it’s natural, it’s inherently safe, but that’s not always the case. One herb that comes to mind is belladonna. Prior to supplementing thyroid, when I still had gallbladder disease and daily gallbladder attacks, a friend I had on the old RPF asked Ray for suggestions and he said atropine to relax the bile duct. Belladonna contains atropine—it’s the source of the crude drug—but is highly toxic to domestic animals and at certain potencies has been shown to poison humans—early humans made poisonous arrows from it—so I bought some belladonna homeopathic pellets knowing that the amount of belladonna they contain is minute and they worked! It took thyroid to overcome the gallbladder disease—Ray said in an interview that anyone with gallbladder disease is without exception chronically hypothyroid—but the belladonna pellets brought relief until I was able to convince a doctor to prescribe me thyroid.
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@Jennifer
Wow, that is potent oregano; and now that you mention it, it is actually Greek oregano that I'm using in my oregano extract. I didn't purposely seek out Greek, but in my research it seemed to be quality. I definitely don't mind oregano in food, and actually like dishes that have it in it. Your using it as a tea is a good idea, when using it as a supplement.Very interesting about belladonna. I've never heard of that before, but will keep it in my notes for gall bladder issues. You've had to overcome a lot, but it's made you knowledgeable in the process.
