DAO Deficiency
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My wife has been having an issue with histamine dumps for about a year now. It always happens right before her cycle where she has "allergy" like symptoms. Congestion, puffy face, body aches. For awhile I would just give her cyproheptadine during to help alleviate the symptoms but it wasn't a solution long term. After consulting with several doctors we just got shrugged shoulders and "try antihistamines and stop eating high histamine food". This was useless advice because it didn't solve the problem. We eventually went to a homeopathic doctor a friend recommended and the doctor put her on some homeopathic remedy which worked. When i inquired about what it was it was a homeopathic tincture containing DAO enzyme. Which makes sense since that enzyme is responsible for the clearing of histamine. But just like the Allopathic doctors, the homeopathic didn't provide any insight on HOW to fix a DAO enzyme deficiency. In their mind the tincture will just "heal her" eventually but the moment she stopped taking it it came back.
So my question is from a Bioenergetic standpoint how does one go about correcting a DAO deficiency with diet?
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@Lothric said in DAO Deficiency:
So my question is from a Bioenergetic standpoint how does one go about correcting a DAO deficiency with diet?
Hi,
I see several points:
Helping DAO with 1.5 mg Cu from food or supplement. Not taking it with cheese (> 40 mg Ca). Need B6. The right kind is PLP, not PNP. B6 is exhausted when suffering from low grade inflammation. Need to get informed on how to deal with high level PLP (100 mg). (Pause required).
Taking DAO high dose 1 000 000. I take Naturdao once a day (twice when not under control).
Keep level H3 and L3 under control. 150-200 Units maximum , 40-50 when in crisis.
See info here on my forum to understand: (in French, translator needed)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1745-traiter-lintolerance-a-lhistamine?highlight=histamine
Modulate the impact of estrogens. Relationship between histamine, estrogen, progesterone and cortisol.
Estrogen stimulates mast cells to release histamine and estrogen down-regulates the DAO enzyme that clears histamine. At the same time, histamine stimulates the ovaries to make more estrogen. The net result is a vicious cycle of estrogen → histamine → estrogen → histamine.
One kind of quercetin (anhydride quercetin) can help calm down mastocytes.
Need to balance with progesterone as well.
See RP: Aging, estrogen, and progesterone – Ray Peat. On raypeat2.com > Articles
Mind unsuspicious counterproductive effects. A nonsense, I know. One example: High dose thiamine. So if taking one supplement, make a search to see if there is an impact on histamine or estrogen.
PS: Mind when eating canned fish (tuna) or pre-packaged cold cuts such as ham, sausage and everything that is smoked or fermented (blue cheese and old cheese).
Hope it could help to manage. -
@LucH said in DAO Deficiency:
Mind unsuspicious counterproductive effects. A nonsense, I know. One example: High dose thiamine. So if taking one supplement, make a search to see if there is an impact on histamine or estrogen.
PS: Mind when eating canned fish (tuna) or pre-packaged cold cuts such as ham, sausage and everything that is smoked or fermented (blue cheese and old cheese).
Hope it could help to manage.What do you mean by the above? Are you saying high dose thiamine would help? And are you saying that canned fish and cold cuts can make histamine worse?
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@Lothric said in DAO Deficiency:
- Are you saying high dose thiamine would help? 2. And are you saying that canned fish and cold cuts can make histamine worse?
- No. High dose thiamine exacerbates the production of histamine.
- Yes, tuna is particularly high; smoked salmon high too but less than canned tuna (660 Units).
I try to find a English practical list with H1=> H3 and L1 => L3.
H brings histamine. L liberate H (makes it free).
Edit:
https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/21_FoodList_EN_alphabetic_withCateg.pdf
=> No food if marked H3 or L3
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If you decide to do copper supplement, what other vitamins/minerals should you be sure to have enough of, do you know?
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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10411347/
This study seems to indicative that mast cell degranulation is a very early response induced by TD (Thiamine Deficiency)
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@Lothric said in DAO Deficiency:
This study seems to indicative that mast cell degranulation is a very early response induced by TD (Thiamine Deficiency)
Yes, logical. When to short of B1 B2 B3 B8 (required for carbs assimilation), the pathway turns towards lactic acid. Lactic acid impacts / exacerbates mast cell function.
But I was talking about a high level of B1, in cure (100 mg thiamine).
And by the way, RDA is fine, but not a B50 complex if every day (under < 90 mg B1).
Above 100 mg B1 is fine, except if you suffer from histaminose (....)
Source:
Biologix Center for Optimum Health
https://biologixcenter.com/allergies/correcting-mast-cell-activation-syndrome-histamine-intolerance-mastocytosis/
This group does extensive research on histamine and is quite reputable. They list Thiamine/B1 as being a liberator and DAO blocker with certain types of administration (High dose):
HIT > Therapy > Medicaments *1 => Thiamin as histamin liberator and DAO inhibitor
Set in excerpt (by LucH): Acetyl-cysteine (NAC), aspirin, many barbiturates, bile acid, codeine, gelatin (bone broth), NSAID, quinine, thiamin and tyramine. -
@foxgelb said in DAO Deficiency:
If you decide to do copper supplement, what other vitamins/minerals should you be sure to have enough of, do you know?
I gave the two most required but if you lack other ones, it's not going to turn round:
Zn 10-15 mg / Cu 1.5 mg => Meat for Zinc.
Vit C (not high level, mind the kind too), D3 2000 UI.
B6 PLP (not PNP), 5 days a week, for 3 weeks. then stop one week. Repeat once.
Make a search with "mastocytes and histamine" and which supplement.
