Iodine as a game changer

[LucH]

@Mossy said in Iodine as a game changer:

I did test it, but as with everything I get heavy side effects.

If you felt ill last time you took iodine, I’d consider the following points:

• Iodine has killed LPS toxins. When the liver is overburdened, toxins keep turning around.
  => Chelation is required. Need olive oil to carry LPS away through feces (Pufa).
  Edit: How is LPS excreted?
  LPS administered into experimental animals circulates as LPS/HDL complex and is cleared from the blood mainly into the liver and spleen. In the liver LPS undergoes partial deacylation however without a loss of toxic activity. Its excretion is effected mainly via the bile into the gut.
  NB: Help with Betaine HCL (with pepsin and ginger),to optimize bile secretion, to avoid stagnation. I've taken Dr's Best, once a day.
• Iodine could have displaced halogens from the thyroid gland.
  Same problem to get rid of bromine, chlorine and fluorine. Except we don’t neutralize them on the same way (with side-effects, possibly including nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, shock, stupor, etc.)
• 100 mcg selenium is required to protect the gland from ROS.
• If you take an unadapt amount of iodine supplement, you are going to shut the door. Neurotransmitters not well provided / stimulated. Thyroid dysfunction (Wolff-Chaikoff effect). Lack of energy, cold hands, fog, etc.
• The NIS symporters need to be opened progressively, an adaptive progression in the dose.
  I’d begin slowly (250 mcg for 7-10 days). The communication between the brain and TSH requires this staple to produce the right amount of T3 and T4.
  Afterwards, you could take +/ 10 mg (10 000 mcg) iodine. Best to have I- and IK2. Only once and I’d wait for 3-4 days to see how I react, before taking another same dose.
  Remind that the brain needs +/ 10 days to adapt the communication.
  If it’s OK (no liver problem), you can go on with 50 mg (50 000 mg). Only once, and see how you react. Same protocol.

It's all about progression / progressiveness.

Remind: Thyroid needs Mg Se I Zn to make deiodinase enzymes. Without deiodinase, the thyroid can’t function well, even if you bring NDT or a similar supplement with T3 / T4.

[Mossy]

@LucH
Thank you. I appreciated your input.

I'm not certain what percentage, if any, of SSKI is iodine, but I thought it consisted of potassium iodide. Meaning, predominantly, if not entirely, iodide.

I do not do well with supplements, and was attempting to get my Se from Brazil nuts. Do you feel this is too inconsistent, or do you know of a better food source for Se?

[LucH]

@Mossy said in Iodine as a game changer:

I do not do well with supplements, and was attempting to get my Se from Brazil nuts. Do you feel this is too inconsistent, or do you know of a better food source for Se?

Excerpt:
Those Brazil nuts aren't high selenium!
https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/3876/those-brazil-nuts-aren-t-high-selenium
Insr says:
Nearly all shelled brazil nuts exported for sale are from Bolivia and Peru, not Brazil. (source)
https://www.fao.org/forestry/nwfp/statistics/brazil-nuts/en
Data wasn't available on Bolivian/Peruvian nuts' selenium content, but right across the border in Brazil, in the states of Acre and Matto Grosso, brazil nuts only have about 8 mcg per nut and 10 mcg per nut respectively. The Brazil nuts in the grocery store are probably from this general region, so they probably only have this much selenium.
It's only in the Brazilian state of Amazonas, probably around Manaus, that Brazil nuts have the very high selenium content they're known for, due to differences in the soil. (202 mcg per nut) This is further to the north, a different region than the places our brazil nuts are most likely coming from.
(Source for all the Brazil data)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653517313711
However, unshelled Brazil nuts are mostly exported from Brazil, and Manaus, Amazonas is the main Brazil nut producing region of Brazil; so unshelled Brazil nuts probably do contain high selenium!
So for these many years, my daily (shelled) brazil nut didn't have 175% of the selenium RDA... All along it was probably a mere ~9 mcg selenium, 16% of the RDA!

Cornold says
Seems believable.
Milk, dairy, beef, and other meats, seafood and shellfish seem to be a safe bet for selenium.
X
Comment LucH
When eating meat, we seldom lack selenium (as RDA +/ 55 mcg). If taking Brazil nuts, think that most of the selenium is situated in the skin of the nut. + Depending on the amount found in the soil. However, ¾ of nuts are often without a brown skin. In addition, it is a source of PUFA that I try to avoid because I try to limit them to +/ 5-6 g per day. Pro-inflammatory (AA cascade).

How much selenium
We need to separate the common supplementation from a cure (detox). For most people, think that too much of a good thing is bad. I take selenium 100 mcg 2x/wk.

When detoxifying the advised amount is 200 mcg. So, in cure.

(and even 400 mcg at the very beginning if poisoned). So, not reachable with food.

Which product?
*) Sélénium complexe Ultra 200 mcg.
365 tablets. +/ € 12.90 + shipping
Suggested use: As a treatment (ML detox) or for cancer patients.
https://www.sunday.fr/seleniumcomplexe.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAg_KbBhDLARIsANx7wAzAPfEPET3Wz8mUB4hAf_7gNd44RxJJXpRGk_PoKPlGR3N0_DRO9foaAis8EALw_wcB
Bioactive complex with over 20 forms of selenium from organic mustard seed and selenium yeast (inactive yeast), plus bioactive sodium selenite. Tablets pressed with nanoparticle-free cellulose. Ideal combination of immediate bioactivity and prolonged depot (delayed).
• Bioactive complex with over 20 forms of selenium from organic mustard seed and selenium yeast (inactive yeast), plus sodium selenite.
• Highly dosed with 200 µg of selenium per tablet
• Including 50 µg mustard seed extract
• Including 100 µg highly bioactive sodium selenite
• Rapidly bioavailable to enzymes
• Including 35 µg of natural L-selenomethionine with depot function (delayed use).
Note: While vitamin C in small amounts (about 200 mg) is beneficial for selenium absorption, high doses of vitamin C (more than 1 g) have an inhibitory effect on selenium absorption. In this case, a one-hour intake interval is recommended.
*) Now Foods. The type I use.
Selenomethionine alone. 100 mcg. A simple choice of Selenomethionine at a great price.
+/ € 5.0 for 100 tablets at iherb.com. Free shipping for orders over €40-50.

[visalibero]

@yerrag hi yerrag!!!!! I think the definitive proof that mouthwash is as effective as ingestion can be seen after 3-6 months. you've already experienced that it works by ingesting it!

[yerrag]

@Mossy said in Iodine as a game changer:

@yerrag
Very interesting. I didn't realize (or I had forgotten) that you were on @Jam 's protocol. I was on that thread on RPF and was desperately wanting to be able to take SSKI for that specific reason — to avoid periodontal disease. I did test it, but as with everything I get heavy side effects. I did try both ingesting the SSKI and using it only as a mouth wash. Maybe I didn't give the latter a fair chance, and I was influenced by negative effects from ingesting it, but last I recall I did get hypo effects, i.e., crushing fatigue, after getting what I'd call a boost in physical and mental energy.

That is amazing, that you've gotten the exact results I was hoping for. On my long list of "need to try again", is SSKI.

I guess a lot comes into play that we don't fully understand and our reaction to different substances vary. I am not speaking with certainty but with probability put into consideration here. It could be that for the past 15 years, I have been practicing my own way of supplementation thru eating a diversity of food. This is after living for 16 years in the US and while there I realized I needed a lot of supplementation because I don't trust the food supply chain to be able to provide enough diversity of nutritional inputs. It is made worse when the economics of food production there is a veritable race to the bottom in terms of nutrition. There is a lot of quantity with quality taking a backseat. But the quality I speak of is not so much about not getting sick from eating contaminated foods but more about the nutritional contents of these food.

I think that when the food supply allows me to seek the diversity of nutrients I need, and I eat from that food supply, I am going to make myself more likely to be free of deficiencies. When that aspect is covered, I can rely on my body to utilize what it gets from my food lifestyle, and fill out pockets of vulnerabilities that arise from deficiency. The more pockets are filled out, the more robust I can be and the more impervious I am to sensitivities that come from being deficient.

As much as we think we know what our body needs due to discoveries in science and medicine and health, there are also many nutrients we don't know of that is given to us in a diet of diversity such as trace minerals. When what we eat is farmed out of poor land that has been deprived of diversity due to excess use of industrial fertilizers and pesticides, we cannot say we get the same amount of nourishment when we eat the same food that comes from good soil and good bodies of water. farm raised salmon, for example, compared to wild salmon, is a night and day difference.

Just take copper alone. It is said that copper is one substance that is hard to supplement with. As we don't know for sure what is considered the right amount to take. Without that knowledge, we are never sure if we supplement copper that we are not taking enough of it or that we are taking too much of it. Lacking it we may not produce enough copper-based enzymes and having too much makes copper toxic to us.

But a way out is to eat food rich in copper. Ray speaks of shrimp, but I avoid shrimp because even in an archipelago I love in where shrimp is native in seawater and feed off natural sources, it is getting harder and harder to find such shrimp. But getting farm raised shrimp is not a good alternative, as farm raised shrimp, while it still has copper, is likely loaded with the cheap components used to make shrimp food. Plus it has plenty of antibiotics to ensure shrimps survive long enough to be caught and harvested and sold for a profit.

But I don't anymore rely on eating shrimp nowadays but buy tiny crustaceans called "alamang" or "tagunton." Alamang is the saltwater while tagunton is the freshwater version, which I like eating when made into a tasty omelette dish, especially for breakfast.

I had an experiment where before I began, I measured my serum ceruloplasmin, and then for a year I ate with enough regularity these crustaceans. A year later, I had my ceruloplasmin measured. I saw my ceruloplasmin go from low of reference at 21 to a high of red range at 31. This showed me how effective it is to rely on food to prevent deficiencies or excess from occurring.

I'm not suggesting anyone move from the US to the Philippines or a place with a more diverse supply of food but there has to be something each of us can do to overcome the limitations of geography and the food supply ecosystem that developed around it.

@LucH's reply to you offers some possible approaches to help you overcome your adverse reaction to iodine. The reactions you feel may not be necessarily bad if they are healing reactions to having iodine. It may be that you have to get your body accustomed to iodine. One way is to start at very low doses and then from there, gradually work your way up.

[yerrag]

@visalibero said in Iodine as a game changer:

@yerrag hi yerrag!!!!! I think the definitive proof that mouthwash is as effective as ingestion can be seen after 3-6 months. you've already experienced that it works by ingesting it!

Where are you at? Are you doing mouthwash only now?

[Mossy]

@LucH

I really appreciate the in-depth information. I will add this to my notes. Thank you.

I do have Selenomethionine, but it may be outdated by now. I've had it for at least 5 years.

[Mossy]

@yerrag
That is an interesting take, and one that is consistent with other success stories I've heard — where one's diet brought them back from a point of deficiency, allowing for success that otherwise would not be possible. As you say, a lot does come into play, but at the very least, high quality food — that which normally would need to come from outside the corporate food monopoly — should be objective #1. I have been positioning myself for that, over the last several years, but I'm not 100% free yet, from the corporate food manufacturing system. Though, I have been able to eat as whole food as possible, though just not from my own garden yet, or from local farms. Little by little I hope to get there.

I hear you on farmed sea food. I do look for wild caught, but due to budget constraints I need to wait for it to go on sale. Sea food is probably my least eaten food, simply due to price. Though, i do like it.

Alamang sound interesting. I'll have to look those up.

@LucH @yerrag
After a quick search I see my original understanding of iodide and iodine was lacking, to say the least. I thought they were distinct from each other. But this quote helps to clarify: "... iodide is the ionic form of iodine."

[visalibero]

@yerrag I'm not using anything right now. I did a 10-day cycle of 300 mg doxycycline and it doesn't seem to be much better, in fact.

The SSKI I bought is hurting my teeth and it had turned orange... even though it was initially transparent. Maybe it's a defective product! Tomorrow I should start with diluted sodium hypochlorite that a dentist friend got me. To rinse. I think it's essentially bleach. I always use erythritol and xylitol after meals. It helps a little but I feel like the disease hasn't stopped.

It seems impossible to get chlorine dioxide here in Italy. It's much more difficult here. Even SSKI requires a doctor's prescription to get it. It took me a month to find a doctor who would prescribe me doxycycline.

And at customs they block the orders and send the goods back.

[yerrag]

@visalibero said in Iodine as a game changer:

@yerrag I'm not using anything right now. I did a 10-day cycle of 300 mg doxycycline and it doesn't seem to be much better, in fact.

The SSKI I bought is hurting my teeth and it had turned orange... even though it was initially transparent. Maybe it's a defective product! Tomorrow I should start with diluted sodium hypochlorite that a dentist friend got me. To rinse. I think it's essentially bleach. I always use erythritol and xylitol after meals. It helps a little but I feel like the disease hasn't stopped.

It seems impossible to get chlorine dioxide here in Italy. It's much more difficult here. Even SSKI requires a doctor's prescription to get it. It took me a month to find a doctor who would prescribe me doxycycline.

And at customs they block the orders and send the goods back.

It's hard to imagine how restrictive Italian health restrictions are. It must reflect the state of the EU now.

It seems that you need to go away from the EU as s prerequisite to getting meaningful healing done.¹

[visalibero]

@yerrag up until 6 months ago it wasn't like this. now it seems impossible to get certain categories of products delivered.

[yerrag]

@visalibero

since you're not that far away from Germany or Switzerland, being in Milan, would a trip there and back allow you to get some substances that are sold there?

[LucH]

@yerrag said in Iodine as a game changer:

at customs they block the orders and send the goods back.

All hormones are blocked from outside Europe.
The control has been heavier since 2025 January. Before, TVA (added value fee / tax) was not due under 150 €, all costs included (carrier). No order above 150 € or you get problems.
Now if the TVA has not been paid by the sender, it takes much more time and is often more complicated (extra fee must bee paid before delivering). A detailed bordereau must be joined.
If you order unapproved molecules (hormones), the packaged will be destroyed or send back to the seller, but on the second time you'll be "punished" by the law.

[visalibero]

@LucH
I would like to get sski or chlorine dioxide.

not hormones!

[LucH]

@visalibero said in Iodine as a game changer:

I would like to get sski or chlorine dioxide.

Sski Potassium Iodide Liquid 250 mcg
https://www.amazon.com/sski-potassium-iodide-liquid/s?k=sski+potassium+iodide+liquid
Bottle 30 ml, 250 mcg/1 drop. As potassium iodide oral solution, USP. Very expensive.

You’ve got the same product with Life-flo on iherb.com, 59 ml (2 oz.) for +/ 7.5 €.
150 mcg / 1 drop.
NB: Do not leave open. 3 months validity (evaporation when liquid)

When you want more; I’d take optimox iodoral 12.5 mg (12 500 mcg)
Choice between 6.25 or 12.5 or 50 mg, 90 or 120 scored tablets.
https://ci.iherb.com/search?sug=iodoral 12%2C5&kw=iodoral 12%2C5&rank=2&rawkw=iodorale 12.5&refererLocation=suggestion

Note: If you want to use dioxide chlorine for mouth wash, I’d prefer to do it / try it first with green tea. 10-15’ 1 tsp infused. Only with green tea. 3-4 times/day for 3-4 minutes. Wait 4-6 days before results.
Combine with iodine potassium, but progressively if ingested, to avoid Wolff-Chaikoff effect.

Before paying, verify the option Added fee (European Tax) has been taken into account.

[thyroidchor27]

@NNight Iodine works well in the winter for boosting thermogenesis but I think in the summer its not really needed.

[LucH]

@thyroidchor27 said in Iodine as a game changer:

Iodine works well in the winter for boosting thermogenesis but I think in the summer its not really needed.

what about the other parameters?
If you feel / perceive cold hands or feet only in the winter, there are probably other symptoms of low metabolism you're accustomed and therefore think it's normal, or at least you manage with ... Until when !?
And it's not because you don't perceive it yet (under the radar), there aren't any low-grade problems ...

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20240321/Exploring-the-role-of-iodine-in-obesity-diabetes-and-other-metabolic-conditions.aspx
=> The correlation between iodine and metabolism: a review.
Excerpt
Mechanisms underlying the metabolic effects of iodine
Iodine exerts antioxidative, antimicrobial, immunomodulatory, and molecular regulatory effects. Iodine alters the proportion of pathogenic and beneficial bacteria to restore the gut microbiome and reduce insulin resistance, obesity, and metabolic syndrome parameters.
Iodine also reduces inflammation by lowering oxidative and endoplasmic reticulum stress caused by free radicals such as reactive oxygen species (ROS).
Iodine acts on the Kelch-like ECH-associated protein 1-NF-E2-related factor 2 (KEAP1-NRF2) pathway to enhance the activities of antioxidant enzymes such as superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase (Cat), and glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px).
In addition, iodine alters inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) and cyclooxygenase-2 (COX2) levels, regulating mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) and nuclear factor kappa B (NF-κB) pathways to reduce chronic inflammation and improve metabolic health.
The mineral acts on type 2 deiodinase (D2) receptors that convert T4 to biologically active T3 to improve weight management and adaptive thermogenesis.
Iodine also interacts with peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-γ (PPARγ) receptors to enhance adipocyte differentiation, fatty acid uptake, and glucose metabolism ...
Source: The correlation between iodine and metabolism: a review.
2024 | https://doi.org/10.3389/fnut.2024.1346452

[LucH]

Deiodinase enzymes and thyroid activity
Situation:
A person is hypotensive and is taking a synthetic T3 and T4 supplement. The dose is taken gradually and with modulated doses. Metabolism improves and fueling is better, but this only lasts for a short time. Why? Symptoms return:
"Feeling cold immediately after taking Cynoplus. What's going on?"

Impact of Iodine and Selenium Deficiency on Deiodinase Enzymes
Deiodinase enzymes are selenoproteins, meaning they require selenium to function properly. If the body is deficient in selenium, these enzymes may not be sufficiently active, which can disrupt the proper conversion of thyroid hormones. Furthermore, iodine is essential for the synthesis of thyroxine (T4), and an iodine deficiency can lead to insufficient T4 production, worsening hypothyroidism.
In such a situation, supplementing with T3 and T4 may temporarily improve symptoms, but if the body lacks the nutrients needed to properly activate or degrade these hormones (via DIO1, DIO2, and DIO3), the beneficial effects will be limited over time. In other words, taking T3 and T4 may only mask a deeper problem related to disturbed hormonal metabolism, rather than resolving the underlying cause.

Role of DIO enzymes
Three enzymes catalyzing deiodination have been identified, called type 1 (D1), type 2 (D2) and type 3 (D3) iodothyronine deiodinases. D1 and D2 have outer ring deiodinase activity, converting the prohormone T4 to its bioactive form T3 and degrading rT3 to 3,3’-T2. D3 has inner ring deiodinase activity and degrades T4 to rT3 and T3 to 3,3’-T2. (…)
Note (you can jump to next paragraph): 3,3’-T2 or 3,3'-Diiodo-L-thyronine is a metabolite of thyroid hormone that is also known as T2 or 3,3'-T2. It is derived enzymatically from triiodothyronine isoforms T3 and reverse T3. T2 plays many of the same roles as T3 but acts on different receptors. . Since there are no commercially available assays for T2, and T2 does not suppress TSH, its absence can contribute to hypothyroidism without being measurable.
https://thyroidspecificformulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/TSF-Factsheet-T2-T3-Converter.pdf

Combustion Engine Analogy
Let's imagine our metabolism as a car engine. If this engine runs on pistons without oil, this will lead to excessive friction, overheating, and eventually malfunction, even if the engine is still running. In this case, the oil represents the essential micronutrients (selenium, iodine, zinc, etc.) needed to properly activate and regulate the function of the enzymes that modify the combustion (or metabolism) of thyroid hormones.
Similarly, even if the car engine (our metabolism) continues to receive fuel (the T3 and T4 supplements), without the proper "lubricants" (the micronutrients), the engine will eventually run into problems. The intake of these micronutrients is essential to optimize the function of deiodinase enzymes and maintain metabolic hormonal balance.

To be continued on this link (in French, but with study references in English):
Micronutriments utiles au fonctionnement de la thyroïde (Useful nutrients for thyroid fuction)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2107-la-supplementation-en-hormones-thyroidiennes-masque-la-carence-en-iode#30191

• Impact of iodine and selenium insufficiency on deiodinase enzymes in order to maintain a balanced hormonal metabolism.
• Caution regarding iodine supplementation (to avoid the Wolff-Chaikoff effect).
• The key to iodine supplementation is gradualness, allowing the body to adapt and avoid unwanted side effects.
• Thyroid hormone supplementation (T3 & T4) masks iodine deficiency.