Iodine as a game changer

[yerrag]

@Mossy said in Iodine as a game changer:

@yerrag
Very interesting. I didn't realize (or I had forgotten) that you were on @Jam 's protocol. I was on that thread on RPF and was desperately wanting to be able to take SSKI for that specific reason — to avoid periodontal disease. I did test it, but as with everything I get heavy side effects. I did try both ingesting the SSKI and using it only as a mouth wash. Maybe I didn't give the latter a fair chance, and I was influenced by negative effects from ingesting it, but last I recall I did get hypo effects, i.e., crushing fatigue, after getting what I'd call a boost in physical and mental energy.

That is amazing, that you've gotten the exact results I was hoping for. On my long list of "need to try again", is SSKI.

I guess a lot comes into play that we don't fully understand and our reaction to different substances vary. I am not speaking with certainty but with probability put into consideration here. It could be that for the past 15 years, I have been practicing my own way of supplementation thru eating a diversity of food. This is after living for 16 years in the US and while there I realized I needed a lot of supplementation because I don't trust the food supply chain to be able to provide enough diversity of nutritional inputs. It is made worse when the economics of food production there is a veritable race to the bottom in terms of nutrition. There is a lot of quantity with quality taking a backseat. But the quality I speak of is not so much about not getting sick from eating contaminated foods but more about the nutritional contents of these food.

I think that when the food supply allows me to seek the diversity of nutrients I need, and I eat from that food supply, I am going to make myself more likely to be free of deficiencies. When that aspect is covered, I can rely on my body to utilize what it gets from my food lifestyle, and fill out pockets of vulnerabilities that arise from deficiency. The more pockets are filled out, the more robust I can be and the more impervious I am to sensitivities that come from being deficient.

As much as we think we know what our body needs due to discoveries in science and medicine and health, there are also many nutrients we don't know of that is given to us in a diet of diversity such as trace minerals. When what we eat is farmed out of poor land that has been deprived of diversity due to excess use of industrial fertilizers and pesticides, we cannot say we get the same amount of nourishment when we eat the same food that comes from good soil and good bodies of water. farm raised salmon, for example, compared to wild salmon, is a night and day difference.

Just take copper alone. It is said that copper is one substance that is hard to supplement with. As we don't know for sure what is considered the right amount to take. Without that knowledge, we are never sure if we supplement copper that we are not taking enough of it or that we are taking too much of it. Lacking it we may not produce enough copper-based enzymes and having too much makes copper toxic to us.

But a way out is to eat food rich in copper. Ray speaks of shrimp, but I avoid shrimp because even in an archipelago I love in where shrimp is native in seawater and feed off natural sources, it is getting harder and harder to find such shrimp. But getting farm raised shrimp is not a good alternative, as farm raised shrimp, while it still has copper, is likely loaded with the cheap components used to make shrimp food. Plus it has plenty of antibiotics to ensure shrimps survive long enough to be caught and harvested and sold for a profit.

But I don't anymore rely on eating shrimp nowadays but buy tiny crustaceans called "alamang" or "tagunton." Alamang is the saltwater while tagunton is the freshwater version, which I like eating when made into a tasty omelette dish, especially for breakfast.

I had an experiment where before I began, I measured my serum ceruloplasmin, and then for a year I ate with enough regularity these crustaceans. A year later, I had my ceruloplasmin measured. I saw my ceruloplasmin go from low of reference at 21 to a high of red range at 31. This showed me how effective it is to rely on food to prevent deficiencies or excess from occurring.

I'm not suggesting anyone move from the US to the Philippines or a place with a more diverse supply of food but there has to be something each of us can do to overcome the limitations of geography and the food supply ecosystem that developed around it.

@LucH's reply to you offers some possible approaches to help you overcome your adverse reaction to iodine. The reactions you feel may not be necessarily bad if they are healing reactions to having iodine. It may be that you have to get your body accustomed to iodine. One way is to start at very low doses and then from there, gradually work your way up.

[yerrag]

@visalibero said in Iodine as a game changer:

@yerrag hi yerrag!!!!! I think the definitive proof that mouthwash is as effective as ingestion can be seen after 3-6 months. you've already experienced that it works by ingesting it!

Where are you at? Are you doing mouthwash only now?

[Mossy]

@LucH

I really appreciate the in-depth information. I will add this to my notes. Thank you.

I do have Selenomethionine, but it may be outdated by now. I've had it for at least 5 years.

[Mossy]

@yerrag
That is an interesting take, and one that is consistent with other success stories I've heard — where one's diet brought them back from a point of deficiency, allowing for success that otherwise would not be possible. As you say, a lot does come into play, but at the very least, high quality food — that which normally would need to come from outside the corporate food monopoly — should be objective #1. I have been positioning myself for that, over the last several years, but I'm not 100% free yet, from the corporate food manufacturing system. Though, I have been able to eat as whole food as possible, though just not from my own garden yet, or from local farms. Little by little I hope to get there.

I hear you on farmed sea food. I do look for wild caught, but due to budget constraints I need to wait for it to go on sale. Sea food is probably my least eaten food, simply due to price. Though, i do like it.

Alamang sound interesting. I'll have to look those up.

@LucH @yerrag
After a quick search I see my original understanding of iodide and iodine was lacking, to say the least. I thought they were distinct from each other. But this quote helps to clarify: "... iodide is the ionic form of iodine."

[visalibero]

@yerrag I'm not using anything right now. I did a 10-day cycle of 300 mg doxycycline and it doesn't seem to be much better, in fact.

The SSKI I bought is hurting my teeth and it had turned orange... even though it was initially transparent. Maybe it's a defective product! Tomorrow I should start with diluted sodium hypochlorite that a dentist friend got me. To rinse. I think it's essentially bleach. I always use erythritol and xylitol after meals. It helps a little but I feel like the disease hasn't stopped.

It seems impossible to get chlorine dioxide here in Italy. It's much more difficult here. Even SSKI requires a doctor's prescription to get it. It took me a month to find a doctor who would prescribe me doxycycline.

And at customs they block the orders and send the goods back.

[yerrag]

@visalibero said in Iodine as a game changer:

@yerrag I'm not using anything right now. I did a 10-day cycle of 300 mg doxycycline and it doesn't seem to be much better, in fact.

The SSKI I bought is hurting my teeth and it had turned orange... even though it was initially transparent. Maybe it's a defective product! Tomorrow I should start with diluted sodium hypochlorite that a dentist friend got me. To rinse. I think it's essentially bleach. I always use erythritol and xylitol after meals. It helps a little but I feel like the disease hasn't stopped.

It seems impossible to get chlorine dioxide here in Italy. It's much more difficult here. Even SSKI requires a doctor's prescription to get it. It took me a month to find a doctor who would prescribe me doxycycline.

And at customs they block the orders and send the goods back.

It's hard to imagine how restrictive Italian health restrictions are. It must reflect the state of the EU now.

It seems that you need to go away from the EU as s prerequisite to getting meaningful healing done.¹

[visalibero]

@yerrag up until 6 months ago it wasn't like this. now it seems impossible to get certain categories of products delivered.

[yerrag]

@visalibero

since you're not that far away from Germany or Switzerland, being in Milan, would a trip there and back allow you to get some substances that are sold there?

[LucH]

@yerrag said in Iodine as a game changer:

at customs they block the orders and send the goods back.

All hormones are blocked from outside Europe.
The control has been heavier since 2025 January. Before, TVA (added value fee / tax) was not due under 150 €, all costs included (carrier). No order above 150 € or you get problems.
Now if the TVA has not been paid by the sender, it takes much more time and is often more complicated (extra fee must bee paid before delivering). A detailed bordereau must be joined.
If you order unapproved molecules (hormones), the packaged will be destroyed or send back to the seller, but on the second time you'll be "punished" by the law.

[visalibero]

@LucH
I would like to get sski or chlorine dioxide.

not hormones!

[LucH]

@visalibero said in Iodine as a game changer:

I would like to get sski or chlorine dioxide.

Sski Potassium Iodide Liquid 250 mcg
https://www.amazon.com/sski-potassium-iodide-liquid/s?k=sski+potassium+iodide+liquid
Bottle 30 ml, 250 mcg/1 drop. As potassium iodide oral solution, USP. Very expensive.

You’ve got the same product with Life-flo on iherb.com, 59 ml (2 oz.) for +/ 7.5 €.
150 mcg / 1 drop.
NB: Do not leave open. 3 months validity (evaporation when liquid)

When you want more; I’d take optimox iodoral 12.5 mg (12 500 mcg)
Choice between 6.25 or 12.5 or 50 mg, 90 or 120 scored tablets.
https://ci.iherb.com/search?sug=iodoral 12%2C5&kw=iodoral 12%2C5&rank=2&rawkw=iodorale 12.5&refererLocation=suggestion

Note: If you want to use dioxide chlorine for mouth wash, I’d prefer to do it / try it first with green tea. 10-15’ 1 tsp infused. Only with green tea. 3-4 times/day for 3-4 minutes. Wait 4-6 days before results.
Combine with iodine potassium, but progressively if ingested, to avoid Wolff-Chaikoff effect.

Before paying, verify the option Added fee (European Tax) has been taken into account.

[thyroidchor27]

@NNight Iodine works well in the winter for boosting thermogenesis but I think in the summer its not really needed.

[LucH]

@thyroidchor27 said in Iodine as a game changer:

Iodine works well in the winter for boosting thermogenesis but I think in the summer its not really needed.

what about the other parameters?
If you feel / perceive cold hands or feet only in the winter, there are probably other symptoms of low metabolism you're accustomed and therefore think it's normal, or at least you manage with ... Until when !?
And it's not because you don't perceive it yet (under the radar), there aren't any low-grade problems ...

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20240321/Exploring-the-role-of-iodine-in-obesity-diabetes-and-other-metabolic-conditions.aspx
=> The correlation between iodine and metabolism: a review.
Excerpt
Mechanisms underlying the metabolic effects of iodine
Iodine exerts antioxidative, antimicrobial, immunomodulatory, and molecular regulatory effects. Iodine alters the proportion of pathogenic and beneficial bacteria to restore the gut microbiome and reduce insulin resistance, obesity, and metabolic syndrome parameters.
Iodine also reduces inflammation by lowering oxidative and endoplasmic reticulum stress caused by free radicals such as reactive oxygen species (ROS).
Iodine acts on the Kelch-like ECH-associated protein 1-NF-E2-related factor 2 (KEAP1-NRF2) pathway to enhance the activities of antioxidant enzymes such as superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase (Cat), and glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px).
In addition, iodine alters inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) and cyclooxygenase-2 (COX2) levels, regulating mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) and nuclear factor kappa B (NF-κB) pathways to reduce chronic inflammation and improve metabolic health.
The mineral acts on type 2 deiodinase (D2) receptors that convert T4 to biologically active T3 to improve weight management and adaptive thermogenesis.
Iodine also interacts with peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-γ (PPARγ) receptors to enhance adipocyte differentiation, fatty acid uptake, and glucose metabolism ...
Source: The correlation between iodine and metabolism: a review.
2024 | https://doi.org/10.3389/fnut.2024.1346452

[LucH]

Deiodinase enzymes and thyroid activity
Situation:
A person is hypotensive and is taking a synthetic T3 and T4 supplement. The dose is taken gradually and with modulated doses. Metabolism improves and fueling is better, but this only lasts for a short time. Why? Symptoms return:
"Feeling cold immediately after taking Cynoplus. What's going on?"

Impact of Iodine and Selenium Deficiency on Deiodinase Enzymes

Deiodinase enzymes are selenoproteins, meaning they require selenium to function properly. If the body is deficient in selenium, these enzymes may not be sufficiently active, which can disrupt the proper conversion of thyroid hormones. Furthermore, iodine is essential for the synthesis of thyroxine (T4), and an iodine deficiency can lead to insufficient T4 production, worsening hypothyroidism.
In such a situation, supplementing with T3 and T4 may temporarily improve symptoms, but if the body lacks the nutrients needed to properly activate or degrade these hormones (via DIO1, DIO2, and DIO3), the beneficial effects will be limited over time. In other words, taking T3 and T4 may only mask a deeper problem related to disturbed hormonal metabolism, rather than resolving the underlying cause.

Role of DIO enzymes
Three enzymes catalyzing deiodination have been identified, called type 1 (D1), type 2 (D2) and type 3 (D3) iodothyronine deiodinases. D1 and D2 have outer ring deiodinase activity, converting the prohormone T4 to its bioactive form T3 and degrading rT3 to 3,3’-T2. D3 has inner ring deiodinase activity and degrades T4 to rT3 and T3 to 3,3’-T2. (…)
Note (you can jump to next paragraph): 3,3’-T2 or 3,3'-Diiodo-L-thyronine is a metabolite of thyroid hormone that is also known as T2 or 3,3'-T2. It is derived enzymatically from triiodothyronine isoforms T3 and reverse T3. T2 plays many of the same roles as T3 but acts on different receptors. . Since there are no commercially available assays for T2, and T2 does not suppress TSH, its absence can contribute to hypothyroidism without being measurable.
https://thyroidspecificformulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/TSF-Factsheet-T2-T3-Converter.pdf

Combustion Engine Analogy
Let's imagine our metabolism as a car engine. If this engine runs on pistons without oil, this will lead to excessive friction, overheating, and eventually malfunction, even if the engine is still running. In this case, the oil represents the essential micronutrients (selenium, iodine, zinc, etc.) needed to properly activate and regulate the function of the enzymes that modify the combustion (or metabolism) of thyroid hormones.
Similarly, even if the car engine (our metabolism) continues to receive fuel (the T3 and T4 supplements), without the proper "lubricants" (the micronutrients), the engine will eventually run into problems. The intake of these micronutrients is essential to optimize the function of deiodinase enzymes and maintain metabolic hormonal balance.

To be continued on this link (in French, but with study references in English):
Micronutriments utiles au fonctionnement de la thyroïde (Useful nutrients for thyroid fuction)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2107-la-supplementation-en-hormones-thyroidiennes-masque-la-carence-en-iode#30191

• Impact of iodine and selenium insufficiency on deiodinase enzymes in order to maintain a balanced hormonal metabolism.
• Caution regarding iodine supplementation (to avoid the Wolff-Chaikoff effect).
• The key to iodine supplementation is gradualness, allowing the body to adapt and avoid unwanted side effects.
• Thyroid hormone supplementation (T3 & T4) masks iodine deficiency.

[happyhanneke]

Is it recommended to use iodine when taking cynomel/cynoplus?

[LucH]

@happyhanneke said in Iodine as a game changer:

s it recommended to use iodine when taking cynomel/cynoplus?

I won't formulate it like this.
The answer could be "yes" if you mind these points.

First of all, you need to bring useful nutrients for iodinase (specially enzyme DIO3) to keepT3 and T4 supplement functioning well on a long time.
People often feel well at the beginning (taking cynomel / cynoplus) and afterwards there is a "problem": lack of nutrients for enzymes DIO.
See above: "Impact of Iodine and Selenium Deficiency on Deiodinase Enzymes"
Deiodinase enzymes need Zn I Se Mg.

Second, When taking iodine (2 forms for I), we have first to load with selenium (2 x 100 mcg at the beginning, for 5 days); afterwards 100 mcg 2X/wk. Not every day for Se (too much of a good thing is bad).

Third, we should accustom the NIS symporter to iodine. They've been a bit lazy (asleep).
150 - 250 mcg iodine 3x/wk. Required if you didn't eat fish or seafood.
If you don't handle so, it won't match (lost). Period suggested: 4 weeks.

Fourth, I'd take 10 -12.5 mg (like iodoral). But we have to pay attention to progressivity and adaptation of the thyroid function. There is a communication between the brain and the thyroid. 10 days minimum for the thyroid to adapt the required amount of T3. and to use iodine up.
Otherwise, you get a Wolff-Chaikoff effect (shutdown). Brain protection. And side effects.
It's a transient effect but it could be hard to regulate. Need time.

Fifth, You could get a Herxheimer reaction (detox). Therapists call that a health crisis. The liver can't get rid of some toxins. They turn around. Need to get informed, not to feel anxious, to know how to deal with. (...)

Remind: You do it with staples and you listen to your feeling. Be progressive. Stop if the liver is overburden. Take it back when OK again.
Hope It can help. Come back to tell us here how you've managed, how you feel.
A testimony for other readers will be appreciated, in - let's say - 2 or 3 months (a kind of log). No obligation. Up to you.

[happyhanneke]

@LucH Thanks for taking time to write this all out. I probably need to read this thread a few times to grasp it better. I have Lugol's Iodine, but have not used it for a long time.

[A Former User]

This post is deleted!

[LucH]

@NoeticJuice said in Iodine as a game changer:

Would it be fine to take 200 mcg once or twice a week instead?

Half-life of selenium
There are 2 phases in the assimilation:
Quick phase: 1 to 3 days
Slow phase: up to 150 days.
The form has also a different impact on pathologies (cancer or not) but we could simplify and say we can assimilate +/ 60 % of the take when swallowing 100 mcg Se with a meal. (1)
There is no immediate contraindication (toxicity) with 200 mcg. We could event take 400 mcg when poisoned at the beginning of the process, for 2-3 days.
Personally I take 100 mcg selenenio-methionine every 3 days, so twice a week.
Suggestion: if you take 200 mcg, after re-loading 3x/ a week, once (or every other day), I’d take it only once 200 mcg/wk afterwards and see how you manage with your rT3 to avoid an excess (sparing effect of Se: less antibodies). Fine tuning required with T3 and T4. Probably you’d have to adapt T4 after a few weeks. Remind the brain needs minimum 7-10 days to perceive and adjust the “orders”.

Sources and references

1. The degree of absorption of selenites is less, but sufficient, of the order of +/- 50 to 60% against 75% for selenomethionine.
2. The optimal selenium level is likely within a narrow range for patients supplementing with synthetic thyroid hormone.
   Research indicates that selenium supplementation may have beneficial effects on thyroid function in individuals with hypothyroidism, especially those with Hashimoto's. It may help improve thyroid antibody levels, thyroid ultrasound patterns, and overall thyroid function.
   => Selenium intake greatly reduced the levels of FT3, FT4, and TPOAb in AITD patients.
   Source: The correlation between selenium levels and autoimmune thyroid disease: a systematic review and meta-analysis. Ying Zuo et al. 2021

Useful info
Synergy with Vitamin E
“Vitamin C regenerates vitamin E and vitamin E protects β-carotene, aided by polyphenols. In the event of β-carotene supplementation, vitamin C regenerates vitamin E and β-carotene, and β-carotene seems to protect vitamin E without really being able to explain this phenomenon”
Saving effect
Vitamin E is not just a vitamin. Vitamin C makes it possible to recycle oxidized vitamin E and thus prolong its lifespan. The same goes for glutathione which is thus saved for other more useful functions (detox). Glutathione is our master antioxidant. Vitamin E protects against the deleterious effects of polyunsaturated fatty acids when they are taken in excess. And it goes fast!
Synergistic Action
Selenium, vitamin E, and vitamin C work synergistically. Selenium and vitamin E tackle lipid peroxidation, while vitamin C helps regenerate their active forms, creating a powerful antioxidant network.
Because of this synergy, a high intake of vitamin C might reduce the amount of selenium the body needs to achieve the same level of antioxidant protection. A pinch of L-ascorbic acid is already considered as a high amount. However the half-life of vitamin C is rather short (probably 4-5 Hours).

[LucH]

@NoeticJuice said in Iodine as a game changer:

I've read elsewhere that vitamin C, B2, B3 and magnesium should be supplemented alongside iodine and selenium. Are these not needed?

Magnesium: For sure (preferably bisglycinate Mg). 300 mg Mg element when stressed.
80% people lack RDA (+/ 420 mg)
Vitamin C: I'd take 2 or 3 very mini pinches of powder. mind the kind (...).
Target 500 mg.
Riboflavin B2: yes but not required every day. 2 or 3X+wk.
B2 is a cofactor essential for various enzymes involved in energy production and neurotransmitter synthesis in the brain. Hypothyroidism can impair the conversion of riboflavin to its active forms, potentially leading to functional riboflavin deficiency.
B1 B2 and B3 + Biotin are often associated. We lack 50 % B1 to assimilate carbs. 2x/wk a complex B50 (co-enzymed).
If you're in the fog, or if you lack energy, a higher level of B1 could be needed. 100 mcg.
(+ glycine via collagen or bone broth). See the posts of mostlylurking.
Note: There is no proof but ... We lack thiamine, as explained. Thiamine deficiency can exacerbate symptoms like fatigue, especially in individuals with hypothyroidism, and supplementation can potentially improve these symptoms.