Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List
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@jamezb46 Are you kidding?
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@risingfire I never took ozempic (or anything more than bromo, cypro, and thyroid) as I understood it, semaglutide lowers glucagon and sensitizes cells to insulin glucose dependent insulin secretion, which is in fact antagonistic to glucagon, this much is very peaty. I didn’t know the details, so I googled it:
semaglutide:
In pancreatic β-cells, this signaling cascade also enhances glucose-dependent insulin secretion and sensitivity of peripheral tissues to insulin. Simultaneously, semaglutide suppresses glucagon secretion by pancreatic α-cells, contributing to improved glycemic control.Retatrutide does a few things:
Stimulate GIP… Glucose-Dependent Insulinotropic Polypeptide (formerly Gastric Inhibitory Polypeptide)
Retatrutide is referred to as a "triple-G" agonist, it works by mimicking three hormones: GLP-1, GIP, and glucagon.
Increased GIP associated with obesity activates the GIP receptor expressed by the hypothalamus, which in turn stimulates the cAMP-EPAC-RAP1 signaling cascade. Activation of the pathway results in the induction of SOCS3 and reduces neural leptin and insulin actions.Semaglutide lowers glucagon, increases insulin. This should not lower metabolism, but increase it.
retatrutide Raises glucagon and GIP, which lowers the hunger hormone and stimulates glucagon whilst suppressing insulin. This would truly slow metabolism.
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@jamezb46 read my comment to risingfire and see what you think. Good to know about clenbuterol. Ray was a fan of epinephrine/noradrenaline for weight loss, and believed it’s reported negative effects were confused adrenaline as adrenaline rarely rises without noradrenaline too. Mild workouts that increase the heart rate without hyperventilation for instance, raise noradrenaline.
I’m interested in earning if there are any complications with clenbuterol
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@alfredoolivas I wonder if long term use of a glp with intermittent use of bromo or caber could help…
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@LetTheRedeemed they aren’t reliable at reproducing the classic dopaminergic tone which usually rises with noradrenaline and adrenaline. Better than nothing I suppose. I was using cabergoline at the time.
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@alfredoolivas interesting. Just based on your experiences, Do you still think something like semaglutide has valuable to a weight loss stack for someone who’s never used it before?
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@LetTheRedeemed if you have perfect bowel movements multiple times a day, lift weights absolutely. Gastroparesis is the main risk and it can be reversible but requires hospitalisation I’m sure. It’s been shown to reduce muscle mass but in animal studies it has been shown to be anabolic and it’s entirely possible that they cause muscle loss via the user eating too little. I’m sure eating enough protein and lifting weights with progressive overload would basically stop the catabolic effects.
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@alfredoolivas oh interesting. thanks very much for sharing it. I'm wondering if thyroid can mitigate that... did you take thyroid whilst you used it?
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@LetTheRedeemed yeah. But thyroid can be very catabolic, don’t take too much
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@alfredoolivas how much do you take per every minute
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@lobotomize This is why I take t4 only, because your stupid comment actually becomes an actual reality.
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@alfredoolivas for sure. I follow Peaty recommendations on his proposed substances, but there's basically no one in the bioenergetic sphere who supports GLP's, so it's intriguing, and I want to really iron out what it's potential actually is. I don't think there's another bioenergetic person right now who's supported GLP's that I can find
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Many fat people's metabolism are fine, they simply ate too many calories for a certain period of time and now they are stuck at a body weight they are unhappy with. That is who GLP 1s are for. IMO. It reverses the effects of a calorie surplus but it does not fix other causes of obesity, which in the end are all metabolic related, whether that has to do with lipid metabolism or energy expenditure.
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@alfredoolivas i may try it in the future. thanks for sharing your experiences
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@alfredoolivas What t4 dose? I stopped taking ~4:1 T4:T3 because it doesnt align with reality. The thyroid endogenously outputs 16:1 - 20:1 T4:T3 and taking exogenous thyroid at those ratios feels massively better than spamming t3. I've been taking 150mcg t4 and 8mcg t3, wondering how you came to a similar conclusion.
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