Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List
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Bromantane and Naltrexone is dope.
Have tried many things here, and I mostly agree with this list.
Except ozempic and mg glycinate lol
I want to try Lisuride, I wonder how it compares to microdosing LSD which doesn't feel good for me.
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@Peatful It's been shown to have pro-mitochondria affects as well.
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@alfredoolivas said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:
@Peatful It's been shown to have pro-mitochondria affects as well.
I figured of course
I have anecdotal and empirical evidence that it is - damaging
The muscle loss alone is an indicator that it is not without risks or certainly contraindications
Peat has said that organisms lose mass as they age or are closer to death
Not here to debate
Honestly
Best of health to you -
Wow, that's a lot of drugs. I'd like to see your medicine cabinet lol. I don't know why you'd even consider ozempic as a weight loss shortcut when you've got t3 and testosterone on your list. Hell, I'd take DNP over semaglutide without second thought if I was desperate enough to lose weight.
Besides the side effects listed by Novo Nordisk and the media coverage of ozempic face and gastroparalysis, semaglutide sets you up for serious rebound. Some people even find that it stops working while you're on it. I'll have to dig up the study I found a while ago that showed that semaglutide prevented existing fat cells from storing lipids while causing a proliferation of new fat cells. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
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@alfredoolivas Solid tier list, but ozempic at top is questionable... Glad it helped you lose weight though
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@Metabolist said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:
Some people even find that it stops working while you're on it. I'll have to dig up the study I found a while ago that showed that semaglutide prevented existing fat cells from storing lipids while causing a proliferation of new fat cells. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
Hmmmm.... sounds like something thyroid hormone does
Triiodothyronine (T3) promotes brown fat hyperplasia via thyroid hormone receptor α mediated adipocyte progenitor cell proliferationIn all seriousness, anything that causes fat cells to brown, causes hyperplasia of fat cells, whic is why thyroid and GLP-1 both cause fat cell hyperplasia, as they both brown the fat cells. Brown fat cells have a lot less apoptosis than white fat cells.
@Metabolist said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:
Besides the side effects listed by Novo Nordisk and the media coverage of ozempic face and gastroparalysis, semaglutide sets you up for serious rebound
Diabetic people are already prone to gastroparalysis lol, so of course if they are treated with semaglutide, they are at a further risk of gastroparalysis. It doesn't mean it happens to normal people.
Ozempic is given to the most hypometabolic people in society (obese and diabetic people), so of course there will be side effects, because as Ray said, anything is dangerous to a hypothyroid person.
@Metabolist said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:
Wow, that's a lot of drugs. I'd like to see your medicine cabinet lol. I don't know why you'd even consider ozempic as a weight loss shortcut when you've got t3 and testosterone on your list. Hell, I'd take DNP over semaglutide without second thought if I was desperate enough to lose weight.
Because they don't work on me. DNP is made in China with hell knows what. I am no way taking 200mg of a heavy metal laden powder, probably made with chemicals fit for industrial use.
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Fascinating list. Thanks for sharing. Where do you get your Cabergoline from? Thanks.
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@alfredoolivas I'm pretty certain semaglutide increased WAT along with brown. If you feel comfortable taking it then don't let me stop you. My point of contention is that the long term effects aren't fully known and rebound upon discontinuation is a real possibility.
How could testosterone and T3 not work on you? Sounds like a dosage or authenticity issue
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One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.
-DB
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@Metabolist For you to lose weight by increasing the metabolic rate, you know you would have to burn 500 extra calories a day to lose a pound a week? Testosterone and thyroid don't allow you to burn 500 more calories a day lol.
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@Peatful Bone loss and excess catabolism can all be explained by much rapid and sustained weight loss.... if you lose more weight and your weight loss doesn't plateau you will lose more muscle. In interventional animal studies, where they simply weren't studying correlations and observations, GLP 1 agonists have been shown to be anti-catabolic to both bones and muscles.
I also saw another study that said the opposite about GLP 1 agonists effect on mental health.
But fair enough for sharing these studies. I personally have not experienced this, and have got even more stronger in the gym on semaglutide, but these are fair talking points.
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How do you approach cabergoline - dosage, timing, frequency etc.?
What's your take on cabergoline vs pramipexol?
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@alfredoolivas They absolutely do in supraphysiological doses. Try perusing some bodybuilder forums. I wouldn't recommend you try high t3 though as it will send your appetite through the roof.
Yes, yes 3500cal in a pound of fat, assuming that you burn it exclusively. Is ozempic known to preserve lean mass and bone density compared to a solid exercise and diet plan alone?
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@Metabolist They don't, studies have shown healthy men taking testosterone, don't get any change in metabolic rate, and thyroid for barely to change the metabolic rate and weight loss. On that topic, thyroid has shown to be very catabolic in humans but people love to keep quiet about that one here.
I have tried different brands of thyroid, taken up to 300mcg a day, and have not lost weight. Same goes for testosterone. I am on bodybuilder forums, and thyroid is only useful when yourbody stops burning fat during a calorie deficit, and testosterone isn't even talked about for a fat loss agent, even though it has fat loss related benefits like muscle preservation.
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@anib 0.25mg twice a week.
I haven't got a good answer. Pramixepole seems to have some opposite effects than the ergot derivatives. Pramixepole encourages fat gain for example, whereas cabergoline and bromocriptine promote it, pramixepole is more asssociated with compulsive dissorders etc, I just don't trust Pramixepole, it is a lot stronger than cabergoline, I read it is stronger than dopamine by 100%+, whereas cabergoline is around 70% as strong as dopamine. Seems very artificial. Just my intuition really, no good reason.
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@alfredoolivas said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:
Thyroid (T3/T4
@alfredoolivas What does your thyroid dosing look like? How much T3/T4 a day? how many times a day and do you recommend any specific brand?
Thanks for the post
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@alfredoolivas Interesting list - thanks, but with all the respect, it's not (holistic) Peating, it's just biohacking at best...
"The only supplements that are very safe to take orally are aspirin, cascara, some kinds of thyroid, small amounts of penicillin (30 mg), cyproheptadine (one-half to one milligram), and progesterone." ~Ray Peat, PhD
Panta rhei... | Liberté 🏴 | It depends... ;-)
A little Learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
~Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism -
@metabolicmilk 100-120mcgs of T3, split into 16 mcg doses every hour and a half. My favourite is Tironene - I do really well on it, it's cheap and IdeaLabs ships the same day you order, they have DHL express delivery, meaning it can get delivered to Europe in less than 2 days, and it passes customs every time, very very quickly. A zero-stress expereience with IdeaLabs and their product, I love it.
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@Kvirion Absolutely, not for everyone.
