Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?
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@jwayne I'm still not 100% sure whether this is all a business deal or just Charles' boundless stupidity. You should never make the mistake an underestimate how remarkably stupid and gullible Charlie really is. I can definitely imagine him believing all this nonsense. Stupidity, combined with religious dogmatism, and a rotten character can result in all kinds of unexplainable behavior.
If it was all just a scheme to direct clients towards good guy Garrett Smith, then Charles should be able to see that his behavior and religious messages will put most people off even if they are curious about the idea. But again, this presupposes a normal level of intelligence which I doubt Charles posseses. -
I just had a small improvement in health from eating small bits of liver each day. Charlies detox 'program' really did a number on me. Fkin stupid. I must of had a copper deficiency from all those stupid supplements.
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@questforhealth What supplements were you taking?
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Zinc, molybdenum for 'copper toxicity'. My spine started to hurt....
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@questforhealth That sounds terrible! But I'm pretty sure it was just a "retinol detox event". <sarc>
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@Kvothe Charlie now mimics Garrett Smith like a clone personality. And has learned to take pleasure in slandering Ray Peat ("The Peat Diet feminizes men.", "...ruins lives", "..is toxic", " ...destroys the liver."). And then adds further remarks everyday ("The carrot diet is a suspect" [in cause of death.])
I would allow attributing the religious viewpoints to lack of intelligence whereas the hatred of Ray Peat is moreso a lack of psychological introspection.
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Maybe.... Haha...
What I find funny is Charlie never talks about having spiritual experiences, synchronicites, or anything like that at all. Despite all this talk of god...
I log onto the forum and in my feed there is almost always the answer to what is on my mind currently... Strange world.
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@questforhealth Because Charlie doesn't mean "God" but God qua repression as in the answer to the inevitable anxiety produced by the needs of intellectual labour. He has psychically repressed all uncertainty and pretended to himself to have hidden it by this word God. That's not the God that organized religions speak of. It's a sad but commonplace degeneration.
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@jwayne That makes sense. So much fun on Charlies forum... Not really.
At least I'm starting to smile again after eating a small slice of liver each day,
Also charlies supplements can in high doses block DHT..... A lot of them. Even zinc can block DHT. Need to be very careful.
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@Verdad True, but in all seriousness, a rational dose of vitamin A for long-term would be much lower. I think when you start using vitamin A in dosages that high it's more like a drug, and there's nothing wrong with that per se, but people are using it to treat certain conditions rather than filling nutritional requirements. I think the 1/4-1/2 pound of liver weekly puts most people in that "sweet spot" for vitamin A.
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@Kvothe said in Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?:
@jwayne I'm still not 100% sure whether this is all a business deal or just Charles' boundless stupidity. You should never make the mistake an underestimate how remarkably stupid and gullible Charlie really is. I can definitely imagine him believing all this nonsense. Stupidity, combined with religious dogmatism, and a rotten character can result in all kinds of unexplainable behavior.
If it was all just a scheme to direct clients towards good guy Garrett Smith, then Charles should be able to see that his behavior and religious messages will put most people off even if they are curious about the idea. But again, this presupposes a normal level of intelligence which I doubt Charles posseses.I err on the the side of boundless stupidity to be honest, lol. It's only when you look at Charlie the historical figure that the picture becomes clear to me. He hasn't always been riding Garrett's dick. Before the toxin A stuff he had already abandoned the forum's direction he just didn't make his opinions super well known. But it was in the writing. He was doing that weird fruit fast by that Dr. Morse guy. I just think he's a hypochondriac, and when, not if, but when he abandons this toxin A fad I'm going to be curious to see what the forum members do then lol.
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@Kvothe said in Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?:
It's bad. Gets you banned from raypeatforum.
nice one
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@Verdad said in Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?:
I've been taking about 90,000 units when I also supplement things that lower cortisol and increase androgens. If i don't take the vitamin A when i supplement these things i pretty reliably break out in acne.
I have not had any problems. According to the anti-vitamin A crowd I am just storing this in the liver and eventually it is going to get overloaded or something and dump into my body and kill me.
I'm very skeptical and I trust people like @haidut then the cultists of the anti-vitamin A movement
You are going to crash. Read youngsinatra posts on the old forum. He took VA for months, up to a year or so, felt amazing for a while. Then he crashed.
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@ZeroTron said in Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?:
Seen some evidence that vitamin A and iodine are synergistic. More A consumption = more Iodine needed. Iodine suppresses the thyroid when you have insufficient A but if sufficient A exists iodine actually causes more thyroid activity.
Anecdotally, this seems to be true.
This is interesting with liver being high in selenium, an iodine co-factor. But Ray didn't like iodine supplementation. Personally I've used it and seemed to do OK. It didn't blow my thyroid up.
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Mercola today has an article about vitamin A deficiency.
STORY AT-A-GLANCE
A 1925 study by Wolbach and Howe found that vitamin A deprivation in rats leads to keratinization of epithelial tissues, affecting various body parts including the respiratory and genitourinary tracts, eyes, and glands
Vitamin A deficiency resulted in serious health issues such as gland atrophy, growth arrest, emaciation, and ultimately death
The study suggested that some cases of cancer could be linked to the accumulation of keratinized cells in organs due to vitamin A deficiency, challenging the notion that infection and inflammation are primary causes of disease
Infections and inflammations observed in the study were consequences of gland and organ degeneration due to vitamin A deficiency, not the cause of the initial epithelial changes
The negative effects of vitamin A deprivation were successfully reversed by adding butter to the diet, highlighting the importance of including vitamin A-rich foods such as butter from grass fed cows for maintaining optimal health -
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@OrpingtonClose said in Whats the deal with "Vitamin" A?:
Is it good or bad?
Here is some info I collected through my decoder
Note that all people won’t agree with what follows.
*) ## High intake of vitamin D (5 000 UI) or a deficiency of Retinol
An excessive intake of vitamin A (retinol) can cause a deficit of Vit D by antagonism. U-shape activity. Retinol (the active form of vitamin A) is an antagonist of vitamin
an excess or a deficiency of one or the other of these vitamins will counteract the functioning of the VDR receptors, leaving them unoccupied or inactive.
Moreover “Any intracellular capable of producing a substance that blocks the VDR would have an effective strategy for disabling the immune system!”
https://mpkb.org/home/pathogenesis/vitamind/metabolism
Excerpt: Bacteria and the VDR
Hormonal changes result from change in 1,25 dihydroxyvitamin-D
*) Technical explanation, in short.
An excess of vitamin A (or a vitamin D deficiency) prevents the formation of heterodimers: essentially homodimers (RXR-RXR) will be formed, leaving the VDR unoccupied and inactive.
Source: Zoëhlo (French Pharmacologist)*) I eat once a week 2 chicken livers (lightly roasted, with one onion), in 250 ml soup. Or I take 10 000 UI retinyl palmitate (once softgel) with a meal (fat required).
It’s not a good idea to take more than 3 000 mcg in once. The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for adults is set at 3,000 μg/day. Most vitamin A is stored in the liver. ## The half-life of vitamin A is estimated to be 128 days, so it can take many months for retinol levels to normalize after vitamin A toxicity. (4)
10 000 UI = 3 mg = 3 000 mcg
Conversion :
*) Retinol: UI in mcg => x 0.33.
6 000 of retinol Estroban x 0.33 = 1980 mcg.
4. Institute of Medicine (US) Panel on Micronutrients
Dietary reference intakes for vitamin A, vitamin K, arsenic, boron, chromium, copper, iodine, iron, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, silicon, vanadium, and zinc. Washington, DC: National Academies Press (US); 2001. Google Scholar
*) Vitamin A has effects of thyroid hormone
Vitamin A lowered TSH and increased T3 in both lean and obese humans. “The effects of vitamin A supplementation parallel the effects of supplementing T3 - i.e. lower TSH and T4 and higher T3 levels”. Haidut
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23378454*) ## Interaction between fat-soluble vitamins
Vitamin K2 is the substance that allows dependent proteins A and D to be activated / come to life. While vitamins A and D act as signaling molecules, indicating to the cells to produce certain proteins, vitamin K2 activates these proteins by giving them the physical capacity to link calcium.
In order to truly understand the fat-soluble vitamins, however, we must understand that vitamins A, D, and K cooperate synergistically not only with each other, but also with essential minerals like magnesium and zinc, with dietary fat, and with key metabolic factors like carbon dioxide and thyroid hormone.
Useful info:
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2017-english-language-corner-1-liposoluble-vitamins#29442
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t667-vitamine-a-sous-estimee#5923 (studies links)- Bioconversion of dietary pro-vitamin A carotenoids to vitamin A in humans
- Half-life of carotene
- The Role of Retinoic Acid in Tolerance and Immunity
- Vitamin A (retinol) is Endotoxin (LPS / TLR4) Antagonist.
Note: - Hypothyroidism can lead most people to a vitamin A deficiency (especially in vegetarian).
- Vitamin A is one of the Keys to a Tolerant Immune System?
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t721-vitamine-a-la-cle-dun-systeme-immunitaire-tolerant#6555 -
Vitamin A works as an estrogen antagonist
The greatest use of vitamin A is at the level of production of pregnenolone, progesterone and the other steroid hormones associated with youth.
“Vitamin A is for the production of pregnenolone, progesterone, and the other youth-associated steroids”. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/alzheimers2.shtml -
@Verdad So a small update on this.
I had been taking a large dose of vitamin A for a number of months the reason for that is when i took other androgen boosting supplements i tended to get acne if i did not also take vitamin A.
Well I have not taken any supplemental vitamin A for a while and am still taking said androgen boosting supplements but I do not appear to be getting the same acne problems as before.
Could be that my liver has enough vitamin A stored but I also theorise that one of the main reasons is the lower levels of estrogen which is a big contributor to acne.
@haidut posted in the raypeat forum a study that indicates that acne is likely a sign of estrogen not excess androgens.
