Malnutrition is inreverssible and produces ugly offspring even after offspring are provided a nourshing diet
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I am sure many on you have heard of the Pottengers cat study. Basically in this study there were two groups of cats. 1 group of cats were fed raw milk, raw meat and cod liver oil. The other group was feed cooked meat, pasteurized milk and cod liver oil.
The raw group were healthy, had amazing bone development and facial structures that were exactly the same and produce healthy offspring when fed the same diet.
The cooked group produced ugly offspring wither extremely different bone structures. They were extremely unhealthy, the mothers had high rates of miscarriages and a bunch of other health problems. Also the kittens died very early and the mothers would even eat their own kittens after giving birth.
But the thing is when offspring from the cooked group were fed a nourishing raw diet it took them 5 generations to reverse the degeneration. Even scarier is that when a cat fed a raw diet is placed on the cooked diet for as little as 6 months, then switched back to a raw diet, they still produced inferior offspring and it takes generations to reverse the degeneration.
I know Ray Peat didn't believe in genes but he is wrong and this is proof. (For more info read the book)
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@Gentile I don't think Peat did not believe in genes. But he disbelieved in genes being the only determinant for an organism; the environment play a large role.
The experiment you describe doesn't make any changes to the gene sequences. But the environment (bad food) makes changes in gene expressions, which can be inherited via epigenetic.
I do not know if Peat talks about epigenetics. But I remember him talking about testing of vaccines, and that the true effects can only be determined after several generations. From this I read him as acknowledging the possibility of epigenetical changes, and effects on the organism.
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@Andreas There are a lot of Peaters that believe they can improve their genes by peating. Thats not how it works. If your mother was fed a sub optimal diet then you will suffer the consequences.
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@Gentile Crazy that you're this stupid. Please reread your own words, if need be a 100 times.
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@Gentile In the epigenetic framework you could say that you could "improve your genes", if you widen the terminology of genes from just being the base sequence to also include the structural formation.
I don't think many people would use a term like "improving your genes", though.Certainly the expression of genes can be influenced. Your example says the same thing: your mother was fed a sub optimal diet, hence the gene expression was changed. This can be detrimental to the offspring.
And also certainly: if you had a malnourished mother, and experienced malnourishment yourself, you will have worse cards than someone who grew up in an healthy well-nourished environment.You can influence your health and well-being though for the better, and give your own off-spring a better chance by your lifestyle. Two people with the exact same genes will develop differently in different environment.
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@Gentile What book are you referring to?
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Please explain how Pottenger's cats support the theory of genetic determinism. Have you read Generative Energy by Ray Peat, or any of his articles on genes and biological inheritance?
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Pottenger’s Cats Revisited A Classic Example of a Nutritional Deficiency of Taurine
Discussion
According to the Nutrient Requirements of Cats, revised edition, 1986, the taurine requirement for the domestic cat is 400 mg/kg for kittens and adult cats and 500 mg/kg for pregnant females.3 Cats lack the ability to synthesize adequate amounts of taurine from precursors.4 This makes taurine an essential amino acid in the feline biological system and therefore it must be provided completely in the diet. Taurine is destroyed by cooking and it has been shown that cats with a diet consisting of heat processed foods have a lower plasma taurine concentration.8-11 Throughout the ten years that Pottenger used to conduct the cat studies he observed six major conditions in cats that were fed cooked meat diets that cats fed raw meat did not develop. These six deficiencies are near and farsightedness, increased incidence of stillbirths, low kitten survival, low birth weight, and poor development. Beginning in 1973 when it was reported that taurine was an essential amino acids for cats through 1990 there was a steady progression of research describing the effects and function of taurine on various systems in the cat. Table 1 summarizes major findings that match the conditions observed by Pottenger that have correspondingly similar deficiency symptoms in cats lacking taurine in the diet. All these deficiency symptoms can be prevented or treated with the addition of taurine to the diet.
Taurine deficiency is a solid explanation for the symptoms observed by Pottenger in his cat studies from 1932 to 1942. Current research shows that there are strong similarities between taurine deficiency and the abnormalities, symptoms, and degeneration Pottenger reported in his cats that were fed the cooked meat diet. The only source of taurine for Pottenger’s cats was meat and it is now well understood that cooking degrades this amino acid. This degradation leads to reduced bioavailability and biopotency of taurine. Therefore the cats that received the cooked meat diet were taurine deficient and the abnormalities observed by Pottenger were a result of this deficiency.Conclusions
• Based on the observed symptoms in Pottenger’s cats, they were deficient in taurine.
• Pottenger’s conclusion that “there was likely an ‘as yet unknown’ protein factor that may have been heat sensitive was correct.
• Pottenger’s Cat studies should not be cited as justification for supplemental digestive enzyme use. -
The jew demoralizers have arrived
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Lol, how long did each of those five generations of cats get to correct the epigenetics? In humans in the real world, 5 generations can span centuries, and you can make extreme progress in each and every generation. It is true that you cannot make a Somali into a Swede, but you can make a Swede into Dolph Lundgren.
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"Choosing the right foods, the right atmosphere, the right mental and physical activities, and finding the optimal rhythms of light, darkness, and activity, can begin to alter the streaming renewal of cells in all the organs. Designing a more perfect environment is going to be much simpler than the schemes of the genetic engineers. "
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@brad The book is called "Pottenger's Cats: A Study in Nutrition by Francis Marion Pottenger Jr"
There is apparently a second edition of this book but I have not read that yet ( https://www.amazon.com/Francis-Marion-Pottenger-Pottengers-Cats/dp/B00N4ELKWG/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1707164282&refinements=p_27%3AFrancis+Marion+Pottenger+Jr.&s=books&sr=1-2&text=Francis+Marion+Pottenger+Jr.).
You can find the 1st book as a PDF for free online
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@Gentile Thank you!
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@md_a
I'm very glad you posted this because this study is used quite frequently, especially by Raw Primal Aajooners to shill raw meat and the sourcing of the freshest meat and dairy products which can be quite expensive and hard to find.It's a very antiquated study and it's common nutritional knowledge now that taurine is one of the most important nutrient for cats. Using this study from the 1930s and comparing to human nutrition and genetic expression shows cluelessness
@Gentile I suggest you always do some more research before you post to avoid embarrassing yourself, we should try to maximize the level of intellectual discussion that can be shared here.
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This was directly disproved by Weston Price, who cataloged instances of intrafamily changes in development as a result of maternal diet.
Mothers could be on an industrialized diet, have ugly and malformed kids, get back onto a traditional diet, and then have healthy and well-developed kids. Pottenger's cats are an invaluable demonstration of the importance of full amino acids and why we should be observant to how cooking/processing influences nutritional composition.
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"Mothers could be on an industrialized diet, have ugly and malformed kids, get back onto a traditional diet, and then have healthy and well-developed kids" can you provide a source for this.
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In my copy of N&PD, Price refers to a woman and her two children- the first born on a Western industrialized diet and the other on a superior traditional diet. Entirely different developments and birth. This is in the chapter titled “Application of Primitive wisdom”. I can’t find it in my (newer) editions but I distinctly remember an older edition containing a similar story but the mother was Polynesian and had children on and off a traditional diet, with obvious differences.
There are also people who’ve been on a Price diet and have recorded their own experiences with reversing abnormal development through diet. Nourishing Our Children has two articles on their website- The Tale of Two Brothers and Reverse The Trend.
I remember a while back a woman in a Raw Primal Diet facebook group showed her children- the first daughters are underdeveloped and unhealthy, and the later children raised on raw diet and WAP diet are significantly improved in their development.
“ The normal determining factors that are of hereditary origin may be interrupted in a given generation but need not become fixed characteristics in the future generations. This question of parental nutrition, accordingly, constitutes a fundamental determining factor in the health and physical perfection of the offspring. One of the frequent problems brought to my attention has to do with the responsibility of young men and women in the matter of the danger of transmitting their personal deformities to their offspring. Many, indeed, with great reluctance and sense of personal loss decline marriage because of this fear, a fear growing out of the current teaching that their children will be marked as they have been.”
Chapter 21- Application of primitive wisdom by Weston A. PriceYou could also look at animal studies cited by Price wherein they removed vitamin A from the diet and piglets were born blind. Some mated those blind piglets and fed them vitamin A- which produced normal piglets.
“ Professor Hale reports that in April, 1935, a litter of seven pigs were born blind at McGlean, Texas, which was suffering from drought conditions, similar to those at Ralls. The litter and dam were purchased by the Experimental Station. Matings were made between blind pigs. These were fed rations containing ample vitamin A, and normal pigs with normal eyeballs were produced. Even the mating of a blind son with his mother who had produced him when on deficient diet, produced only normal pigs when both had ample vitamin A. He states, "If an hereditary factor had been the cause of this congenital blindness, these matings would have produced some blind pigs, even if vitamin A were present in the ration."
