Getting rid of gyno
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@Lew thanks for the reply - seems like andro/dht might be the way to go. How much aspirin and vit k are you taking?
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@donovan great stuff thanks - I’m pretty sure it’s a GABA agonist if I remember correctly, another reason to supplement so thanks I’ll look into it.
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@eatfan yeah p5p was the only thing that made a difference, and still makes a difference. Also it’s dirt cheap compared to everything else recommended, not that they won’t work as much/more. Good luck
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@eatfan Yeah i think so. I got induced gyno from taking amitriptyline (some studies say it raises prolactin).
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@eatfan with aspirin I go by feel, 300mg-1000mg, with 3-5mg K topical
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@eatfan Unfortunately, there's no solution that involves topical application of creams that will result in tissue reduction. The keyword is tissue, since tissue, once formed, cannot be reduced through hormones anymore.
Surgery is painless and recovery is less than two days. If it bothers you so much.
The man who believes that the secrets of the world are forever hidden lives in mystery and fear.
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@BigusDickus not true at all, glandular tissue can be catabolized just like fat and muscle tissue - it can also be catabolized before fat & muscle under certain hormonal situations such as the thymus gland in acute cortisol response. I would imagine shinkage of any tissue to occur more easily in a slight calorie deficit, so long as you're maintaining proper liver funciton.
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@skylark You're writing "not true at all" yet there's absolutely no evidence of substantial tissue removal, in the literature or anecdotally. Tissue catabolism doesn't mean removal in the context of fat and muscle, but shrinkage. Likewise, removing gyno without surgery is as probable as removing your nipples by rubbing creams on them.
The man who believes that the secrets of the world are forever hidden lives in mystery and fear.
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@BigusDickus
@BigusDickus said in Getting rid of gyno:@eatfan Unfortunately, there's no solution that involves topical application of creams that will result in tissue reduction
Kuhn JM, Laudat MH, Roca R, Dugue MA, Luton JP, Bricaire H. Gynécomasties: effet du traitement prolongé par la dihydrotestostérone par voie per-cutanée [Gynecomastia: effect of prolonged treatment with dihydrotestosterone by th
percutaneous route]. Presse Med. 1983 Jan 8;12(1):21-5. French. PMID: 6220269.Eberle AJ, Sparrow JT, Keenan BS. Treatment of persistent pubertal gynecomastia with dihydrotestosterone heptanoate. J Pediatr. 1986 Jul;109(1):144-9. doi: 10.1016/s0022-3476(86)80596-0. PMID: 3088241.
I mean here is two specifically on treating gyno with dht, would take you 30s to search on pubmed… idk why you keep saying “tissue removal” gyno isn’t the presence of the glandular tissue, everybody has glandular tissue, it’s just the growth of that tissue - so successfully treating gyno is just reversing the growth back to an acceptable level.
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@eatfan I had a bit on one side caused by taking pregnenolone and it converting to estrogen. Saw a surgeon for biopsy after MRI due to a lot of family history of breast cancer. She told me that in general the only way to get rid of gyno was with surgery.
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I wonder if hard dry fasting ala Filinov would be helpful. I want to try.
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@skylark Both studies report just reduction, and one study in pubescent boys, which is an entirely different predicament. I'm aware of these solutions but presence of gynecomastia beyond 2-3 years, well after puberty, means fibrotic tissue, hence why I'm saying removal.
Talk to doctors, patients, and people who've had gynecomastia for years. Look into the literature. It's NOT an easy solution and complete reduction is unheard of BECAUSE the tissue has become metabolically inert, for the most part.
More plates more dates talks extensively about it and his conclusions are similar to mine.
Good luck.
The man who believes that the secrets of the world are forever hidden lives in mystery and fear.
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I experienced gynaecomastia when I was 19, I think in part as a response to starting to lift weights and eat more as well as probably some late pubertal development.
It was only on the left side, and was very sensitive. Doctor was of course very little help and decided to put me through a breast cancer screening, so I took matters into my own hands by getting my hands on some Tamoxifen (Nolvadex). I dosed it at 20mg ED for 2 weeks, it resolved itself by day 9 and never came back.
Tamoxifen has a slightly better reputation than clomid as far as SERMs are concerned, but I'm aware of the fact it's considered to be hepatotoxic amongst other side effects. Either way, it's been years since and I've not had an issue of it's kind again, and I think the cost and time investment is low enough to consider it in cases of pubertal-associated gyno, especially when it's a recent development.
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@BigusDickus said in Getting rid of gyno:
Talk to doctors, patients, and people who've had gynecomastia for years. Look into the literature. It's NOT an easy solution and complete reduction is unheard of BECAUSE the tissue has become metabolically inert, for the most part.
I bet these people are hormonal wrecks that have been ignored by doctors though. Is there any research on using thyroid etc for gyno?
Dr. Ray Peat: Thyroid supplements can be useful for prostate hypertrophy and some cases of impotence and infertility. Occasionally, a man who can’t put on a normal amount of weight finds that a thyroid supplement allows normal weight gain. Leg cramps, insomnia and depression are often the result of hypothyroidism. Heart failure, gynecomastia, liver disease, baldness and dozens of other problems can result from hypothyroidism.
The activity of aromatase increases with aging, and under the influence of prolactin, cortisol, prostaglandin, and the pituitary hormones, FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and growth hormone. It is inhibited by progesterone, thyroid, aspirin, and high altitude. Aromatase can produce estrogen in fat cells, fibroblasts, smooth muscle cells, breast and uterine tissue, pancreas, liver, brain, bone, skin, etc. Its action in breast cancer, endometriosis, uterine cancer, lupus, gynecomastia, and many other diseases is especially important. Aromatase in mammary tissue appears to increase estrogen receptors and cause breast neoplasia, independently of ovarian estrogen (Tekmal, et al., 1999)
Gynecomastia (and galactorrhea) associated to the use of conventional and certain atypical antipsychotics can be related to high prolactin levels.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34933535/ -
Low-fat milk + raising your metabolic rate could help with gyno.
A non-peaty way of getting rid of gyno would probably to do cardio everyday increasing the metabolic rate through stress hormones, albeit temporarily.
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@Cornelyan I don't think it's possible for Androsterone to convert to Estrogen. It's non-aromatizable.
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@GreekDemiGod You're right idk why I wrote that, to compensate for my idiocy I'll add that androsterone creates a good synergy against aromatizable compounds such as DHEA, as haidut told about an efficient ratio of 1:3 in the favor of DHEA combined with andro inhibiting aromatase in a significant manner
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@peatilian This is great. I have also some spare DHT powder so I will try this. In the past was trying this only with a Ethanol but DMSO could work better. Will try and report back.
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@Chud Sure it wasn't progestin?
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@Chud I would hazard to guess that they may be using cheaper progesterones, which have estrogenic metabolites which Ray said exacerbated estrogenic symptoms, or they’re taking too much, which will indeed aromatize, hence Ray advocating such small doses as 3.5mg.
If using progest-E, the E antagonizes estrogen, and don’t quote me, worth looking further, but I think it may block aromatization as well.
