Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic
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Because I do so poorly with supplements, I'm using bone broth for glycine, instead of a glycine supplement, with a dose of white willow bark (15% salacin), equivalent to a baby aspirin.
If anyone sees this as a negative or has any thoughts, please share.
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@Mossy said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
If anyone sees this as a negative or has any thoughts, please share.
It should be ok if you manage your acid-base balance well, particularly potassium.
I suppose you have no problem with lithiasis (excess oxalates from nuts, spinach or rhubarb). Otherwise, I'll take citrates to help get rid of. I have potassium citrate and calcium citrate. Each time I eat a compote with 50/50 rhubarb and apricot, I take one big pill of Ca citrate. Not easy to swallow, by the way.
But if you drink milk, Ca could do the job better than Mg or K, except there isn't Ca enough when you eat the 12 bastards. I can give a link if interested.
Ca takes Ox away; K or Mg make Ox softer and easier to travel through urine and feces. The CaOx stone is then very fragile ... -
@LucH said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
I suppose you have no problem with lithiasis (excess oxalates from nuts, spinach or rhubarb).
By this comment, can I assume that bone broth is high in oxalates?
P.S. I do think I may have trouble with Ox.
But if you drink milk, Ca could do the job better than Mg or K, except there isn't Ca enough when you eat the 12 bastards. I can give a link if interested.
Sure, I'll take a link when time allows.
Ca takes Ox away; K or Mg make Ox softer and easier to travel through urine and feces. The CaOx stone is then very fragile ...
So, ultimately, it seems the bone broth is requiring more citrate, which you feel is not possible to be gotten by drinking milk alone?
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@Mossy said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
I assume that bone broth is high in oxalates?
So, ultimately, it seems the bone broth is requiring more citrate, which you feel is not possible to be gotten by drinking milk alone?- yes, but ... Explanation follows.
- Probably not. Limit but possible, if not over 200 mg Ox. Explanation follows.
Here is the answer I wrote, not to have problems (wrong manip) and to lose the details.
Well, I won’t eat bone broth in two circumstances since bone broth is rich in glycine and particularly hydroxyproline. Not in crisis but well when under control because the advantages of bone broth are very high. Not in case of histamine and lithiasis, when in crisis.
Most urinary oxalate derives from metabolism of vitamin C, glycolate, glycine, and particularly hydroxyproline. From those who supplement with high-dose vitamin C (> 200 mg) or bone broth/gelatin/collagen we should be aware of.
Calcium oxalate is (based on molar mass):
• 1/3 calcium
• 2/3 oxalate
If a food contains 100 mg of soluble oxalate, 50 mg of calcium may be enough to absorb it and this 50 mg of Ca can be considered lost / non-bioavailable. The absorbable fraction of calcium is what remains after complexation.
Mind the twelve bastards: beet, spinach, rhubarb, broccoli, carrot, parsnip, high level of tea, almonds & cashew, miso soup, grits, baked potatoes with skin, cocoa powder.
DOI:10.5539/jfr.v7n3p76 2018
Mind these fruits: rhubarb, kiwis, dates, raspberries, oranges, tangerines. This doesn't mean you can never have these healthy treats. But you have to manage (…)
The only berry that is very high in oxalate is raspberries (see the list). Fruits with the widest observed range of oxalate included oranges (2.07-10.64 mg/100 g) and bananas (0-9.9 mg/100 g). Very variable for bananas.
You can still eat some but not in crisis, and if you manage well (frequency & capture).Useful info: You’ll need time to read the whole stuff. Open a new file on your PC and come and read it later if not well awoken
*) Comment éliminer l’oxalate? Causes et identification (In french)
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t2061-comment-eliminer-loxalate#29846
*) Impact négatif de l’oxalate sur le métabolisme : Chaos biochimique !
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t1959-impact-negatif-de-loxalate-sur-le-metabolisme-chaos-biochimique#28275
In short: we can handle a small amount of oxalates. When we overload the liver, we need more sulfur; we need sulfur to neutralize the oxalate. An overloaded liver will have greater difficulty exchanging one sulfur molecule for one oxalate molecule.
If we don't have enough sulfur or if the liver can't keep up, we'll lose our methylation capacity. Some useful nutrients, like B6, will no longer be available. Problems will increase: lack of enzymes, neurotransmitter deregulation, and reduced detoxification…
Problems related to sulfur (and by extension, histamine and salicylates) can be caused by a weakened metabolism, which can no longer process excess oxalate-rich foods. A threshold of 40-50 mg oxalate is therefore strongly recommended.
Edit; When not in crisis period, when varying well, when managing is optimal, 150 - 200 mg Ox is admitted. But not every day if you're at risk.
I'm.
Last week, I felt a very light alert at the left side of my belly. So, at the evening meal, I took 2 doses of potassium citrate (2 x 1.6 g) with 100 ml water. Rather a chervil soup than bone broth. Follow up on Cronometer to target Ca > 850 mg.
NB: As I take Mg bisglycinate, there is often potassium bicarbonate or potassium citrate to balance acid-base nutrients at the end of the day. Cramp prevention too. -
@LucH
This is useful. Thank you. It's extra interesting, because lots of what you list I have trouble with.So, supplementing with glycine, versus bone broth, would still present the same oxalate challenge?
If we don't have enough sulfur or if the liver can't keep up, we'll lose our methylation capacity. Some useful nutrients, like B6, will no longer be available. Problems will increase: lack of enzymes, neurotransmitter deregulation, and reduced detoxification…
Would B1/thiamine help the liver to keep up?
Is it correct to think, in theory, aspirin + glycine + B1/sulfur would counter the negative effect of each supplement? Glycine to help with the salicylates of aspirin, and B1/sulfur to help with the oxalates of glycine? I would imagine it's not as simple as taking them all at once.
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@Mossy said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
Is it correct to think, in theory, aspirin + glycine + B1/sulfur would counter the negative effect of each supplement?
You get the useful nutrients on this way but it won't match so.
First moderate excess to let the liver deal with usual amounts / the useful capacity.
Make staples / breaks to recover an balance on a easier way.
What I would do:
No alert but become conscious how to manage.
If you use aspirin for a medical purpose, I need to know. Otherwise, make staples. Or adapt the dose / the kind. If against arthrosis (inflammation and pain), there are alternative molecules (to avoid a low level of platelet aggregation). Not a good idea to have a low level of platelet during a pandemia ...
You get enough sulfur if you eat meat or cheese, but it's often complexed / not really free. Need 3-4 days for the liver to manage.
What brings sulfur could bring oxalate in excess. So not a good choice if in crisis. We have to anticipate. Not the priority to recover. But well to avoid a fucking state.
If you don't eat meat, you need selenium: 100 mcg a day. Not necessary every day. I take it 2x/wk.
So, yes aspirin + glycine but not in crisis.
B1 is going to help avoiding extra lactate. 100 mg B1 HCl can help. But it not the priority. When there isn't enough B1 for glucose to reach the Krebs cycle, lactate is formed.
If people eat wheat at 3 meals they lack B1. You shouldn't, unless you want an extra action on the metabolism / brain. -
@VehmicJuryman said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
That would explain why aspirin doesn't help my insomnia
Sleep/insomnia is complicated. Aspirin in the evening works for me. See the thread Aspirin in the morning vs aspirin at night
Dr. Peat was interviewed about sleep.
Youtube Video -
@LucH said in Chris Masterjohn: Salicylates are Toxic:
If you use aspirin for a medical purpose, I need to know.
I do not have an officially diagnosed deficiency, by western medicine standards. But by Peat standards, and simply with how I feel, I'd say sub par health and likely hypothyroid. Blood tests chronically show slightly high cholesterol, pre-diabetic A1C, and low vitamin D. I have poor digestion (which you've provided me information on elsewhere — thank you), spotty energy, and spotty sleep; and like many people, fairly chronic life stress: "as the sparks fly upward, so is man made for trouble".
My objective with aspirin is two-fold. To boost my current health state and well-being, and as a preventative for future issues.
I think I diverted from your original suggestion and analysis by mentioning B1. In my effort to grasp concepts, I've over simplified — so pardon my ignorance.
I'll backup and return to your suggestion of calcium citrate, to counter the oxalates of glycine, when taking asipirin/WWB: by way of milk or supplement.
In an effort to spare you the time and energy, I'll focus on the concepts you've already provided and see what I can achieve. Should your interest and time allow, I'll always welcome additional information.
Thank you!
