Copper deficiency,histamine intolerance, fatigue
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@LucH hey, although i know b1 is histamine liberator, i did some research and couldn't find any studies that prove that it increases histamine or blocks dao despite being mention in some of those websites you posted and my own experience, i did find a few studies that show the opposite that lower b1 status increases histamine in the brain and serotonin. how do we increase b1 for us with histamine issues, even b complex give me all issues because b1 in it.
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@lykos said in Copper deficiency,histamine intolerance, fatigue:
i did some research and couldn't find any studies that prove
I know.
I didn’t find back the link of the study. So, I’ve proceeded differently, with Luc’s pendulum
Question to ChatGPT
Context:
Study warning against certain molecules (herbal medicine or foods). The details are not available. I couldn't find this link. No problem with the AE (adequate intake) / RDA relative to thiamine (B1), i.e., 1.2 mg. Nor even with a B50 complex if taken twice a week.
I know that thiamine is essential as a vitamin and enzyme cofactor in several situations, particularly in the communication between the brain and gut axis (vagal nerve).
So no need to warn me.
• Enzymatic Pathways and Bioenergetics (HD Vitamins and Co-factors + Mitochondrial Support)
• Microbiome-Brain Coordination (Gut Health and Absorption + Neurotransmitter Synthesis)Question
What could be the reason for the prohibition / warning against taking a high dose of thiamine (> 100 mg B1) as a course for a treatment, at a pharmacological dosage, passive assimilation, with occasional B2 intake, therefore not necessarily daily? A high intake of B1 will "consume" B2.Extrapolation (track to be confirmed):
Prerequisite: Metabolism functions erratically, whether at the thyroid, digestive, and / or brain levels.
Knowing that a significant and gradual passive intake is likely to reactivate certain metabolic processes in the event of deficiency (CFR Chandler Marrs, Elliot Overton, Antonio Constantine's, legacy, Derrick Lonsdale), according to a progressive protocol, what could be the reason / explanation for an excitation of mast cells or other cells involved in the production or release of histamine, in the event of a high dosage? I am aware that this is a hypothesis, therefore it must be confirmed by another route. No need for a warning.Short answer
The most plausible explanation is that high doses of B1 abruptly increase the activity of mitochondrial enzyme complexes and decarboxylation pathways, creating:
• an increased demand for B2 and NADPH,
• a transient redox imbalance,
• increased production of metabolites and biogenic amines,
• and rapid modulation of the neuro-immune axis (vagus nerve–mast cells).
These combined factors can trigger or amplify mast cell degranulation/histamine release in certain conditions.Detailed explanation
As described by Derrick Lonsdale and Chandler Marrs: In cases of latent deficiency, a high dose can "awaken" dormant metabolic pathways.
This "awakening" results in a relocation of metabolic resources, with short-term disharmony, which can manifest as:- Mast cell activation,
- Thyroid fluctuations,
- Symptoms of histamine intolerance.
Immuno-neuroendocrine activation (brain-gut-immunity axis)
• The vagus nerve is heavily involved in mast cell regulation.
• While thiamine abruptly improves nerve conduction and vagal bioenergetics, there may be a transient activation of the anti-inflammatory cholinergic loop, paradoxically perceived as mast cell stimulation (abrupt rebalancing of sympathetic/parasympathetic tone).
In conclusion (LucH): We first try to calm the excessive reaction (histamine), with a moderate intake of B1, accompanied by cofactors to facilitate enzymatic conversion. When the situation is under control, we can gradually increase the pharmacological dosage (HD B1), following a protocol if we go beyond 100 mg of thiamine. We adapt according to the feeling, knowing that we will have to learn to decode a healing crisis (Herxheimer crisis) from a counterproductive / inappropriate intake.
Figure: Effet de la thiamine en cas de surdosage (> 100 mg) : Effets sur les mastocytes (hypothèse)
=> Effect of thiamine when overdosing (> 100 mg): Effects on mast cells (hypothesis).
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@LucH Interesting, i got a similar answer from chatgpt, i played around with different dosages from 25mg-100mg hcl supplemented along with b2 50mg and p5p 10mg. They all cause me the same issues.
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@lykos, if you haven’t done so already, you may want to consider thyroid function as a potential contributing factor. Ray spoke about the thyroid’s role in copper metabolism and also, the immune system and allergies.
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@Jennifer I checked my thyroid before i tested any of the minerals and it was fine, soon i will test various b vitamins.
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@lykos, if you don’t mind sharing, was it via blood tests or did you use other diagnostics such as temps (including temps of extremities—feet, hands, nose and ears), pulse rate, achilles tendon reflex and evaporation rate/metabolic rate (total fluids consumed and eliminated via sweat vs urine in a 24 hour period)?
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blood tests
TSH t3 t4 -
@lykos said in Copper deficiency,histamine intolerance, fatigue:
blood tests
TSH t3 t4Yes, but mind when the results of the blood test is borderline, don't trust it. Listen to your symptoms, at least 2 or 3 symptoms of a list (hypo-symptoms).
NB: Borderline
A thyroid test in the "low quarter" (or lower quarter) means that the result is in the lowest part of the normal range. (Gauss curb). -
@LucH i think all my problems started when i was exposed to mold for long time, i know mold tanks copper really fast but i probably have some dysbiosis or candida based alone from my gyms and rhinitis. Doctors suck here, trial and error with everything sadly when it comes to health.
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@lykos, what LucH said. Along with fatigue and poor copper metabolism, having low iron despite adequate intake is another sign of an under-active thyroid. Despite my intake of iron-rich foods like red meat and supplementing with food-based iron, my ferritin was down to 6 and didn’t budge until I started taking thyroid (Armour). I was also diagnosed with mold toxicity and gut dysbiosis (SIBO), which cleared up when I targeted my thyroid. To rule out your symptoms being thyroid related, if you haven’t done so already, you may find it useful to track your temps (including extremities) first thing in the morning, and before and 20–30 minutes after you eat, and also your pulse rate, for two weeks. And in case you haven’t read it, here is Ray Peat’s article on TSH, temperature, pulse rate, and other indicators in hypothyroidism:
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@lykos said in Copper deficiency,histamine intolerance, fatigue:
Greetings friends, i have been suffering from severe copper deficiency for long time which resulted in histamine intolerance and general system collapse. It's hard to navigate with my affliction because doctors here are incompetent idiots. I supplemented 4mg of copper for 6 months which improved my health but despite that i still have low cerruloplasmin and copper serum among other b vitamins like b1 which i cannot supplement in any form as it gives me severe histamine issues. Currently i am taking zinc 10mg with 2mg of copper because i think i tank my zinc levels after half year of taking copper, b6 10mg as p5p for dao support, taurine, magnesium glycinate 400mg a day.My ferritin is really low 20 despite eating meat, i am desperate i don't know what to do anymore, i have no energy or motivation to get out of bed for almost a year now and despite having some improvement with copper most of the symptoms persist.
@LucH"Just take copper bro" brutal
What do you eat, where do you live?
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@user2 what's wrong with copper ?
copper cured me from dire health. -
@lykos said in Copper deficiency,histamine intolerance, fatigue:
@user2 what's wrong with copper ?
copper cured me from dire health.Kidding, you said you have no energy to go out of bed even tho you take copper. What do you eat, where do you live? Do you have foods/liquid reflux? Do you feel warm?
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@user2 I live in russia, my diet for the last 3 years was mostly 2L of raw milk a day and half a kilo of rib eye, fruits and gelatin and some liver here and there, it lead to severe copper deficiency which took almost a year to completely cure.
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@lykos said in Copper deficiency,histamine intolerance, fatigue:
@user2 I live in russia, my diet for the last 3 years was mostly 2L of raw milk a day and half a kilo of rib eye, fruits and gelatin and some liver here and there, it lead to severe copper deficiency which took almost a year to completely cure.
Raw milk/dairy maxing cann destroy a person, it did for me, can make you very low energy, no hype to movement, movement and sound feel neutral or bad. Some foods promote lying down and processing the food, milk and dairy can be among these foods. Do you feel any effects from the meat, warmth, fertility, desire, relaxation? What fruits do you eat? Do you have foods/liquids reflux?
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@user2 Peat couldn't be more wrong about dairy, the main culprit for destroying my health was dairy despite not having any digestive issues and consuming the highest quality grassfed. I eat mostly grapes and citrus fruits, yeah beef gives me boners all day. Peat in his last days wasn't drinking milk and he ate oats.
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@lykos said in Copper deficiency,histamine intolerance, fatigue:
@user2 Peat couldn't be more wrong about dairy, the main culprit for destroying my health was dairy despite not having any digestive issues and consuming the highest quality grassfed. I eat mostly grapes and citrus fruits, yeah beef gives me boners all day. Peat in his last days wasn't drinking milk and he ate oats.
I dont know if its inhérent to dairy or if the dairy production is poisoned, or if milk that isnt drink shortly after it come out from udder is bad, or if dairymaxing can drive deficiency quickly, or if dairy+ getting fryed by emf/5g bad, or if cows get covid vaxed but yes can be terrible.
What color are the grapes? What citrus fruits? Do you wake up multiples times a night, do you have good dream clarity and recall? Do you get sex dreams?
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@user2 I used to wakeup 10 times every night when i was deficient for almost 1 year, now i sleep well and my health is recovering. Another factor for causing the deficiency was my coffee addiction thanks to peat, before finding his work i never drunk coffee.
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@lykos said in Copper deficiency,histamine intolerance, fatigue:
@user2 I used to wakeup 10 times every night when i was deficient for almost 1 year, now i sleep well and my health is recovering. Another factor for causing the deficiency was my coffee addiction thanks to peat, before finding his work i never drunk coffee.
What color are the grapes? What citrus fruits?do you have good dream clarity and recall? Do you get sex dreams?
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@user2 why the specific questions? Anw you can dm
