11KT - 11-keto-Testosterone
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@engineer
Great points !! Ive seen this study before but haven't made those connections.Might explain why on my idealabs test results:
T=5 and 11keto-T= 34 (pg/ml?).So how much is it worth even testing your T when you don't know your 11keto-T? Same for DHT and 11keto-DHT.
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio this could in fact be the same kind of situation as TSH tests. In other words, the test is uninformative because the correct method was forgotten or simply unknown but is accepted anyway because it's the norm.
Also, I'd like to give a day 3 update: I can definitely tell something is happening because I am eating and drinking so many carbs yet it all gets digested right away to do something, probably to build muscle. Why? For the past week and a half I've been making it a goal to do 60 pull ups every day. With my current Peaty supplement stack I can already often feel overnight improvements in muscle size but it seems to have accelerated with the 11 kT. Even if I absorb only 100mg of 11 kT a day (100% would be 170mg) that's roughly equivalent to the common 500mg/week regimen used by bodybuilders and maybe even more than that. Now, if you consider that this liquid requires no injections and can't aromatize, this could be the Peatiest way to get more T in your body.
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@engineer yes! I've never really seen any body talk about the impact of the (adrenal) keto androgens on overall performance and androgenicity in the peat world.
Cool thanks for sharing !
I personally would take way less (more in the realm of what peat recommended) but to each their own. And since it doesn't aromatize it seems safer ...Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
said in 11KT - 11-keto-Testosterone:
yes! I've never really seen any body talk about the impact of the (adrenal) keto androgens on overall performance and androgenicity in the peat world.
Another important point:
11keto-T is NOT just an adrenal hormone!
It is also produced in the gonads in significant amounts."Here, we found evidence that 11-KT is pro-
duced in human gonads and is one of the major androgens.It can potentially act as a nonaromatizable androgen. Testicular Leydig cells and ovarian theca cells expressed the enzymes for producing 11-KT from testosterone,CYP11B1 and HSD11B2. In fact, Leydig cells produced 11-KT, autonomously.""Our results strongly suggest that the gonads are main organs for 11-KT production in humans..."
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@engineer said in 11KT - 11-keto-Testosterone:
It has been observed that in control groups of healthy individuals the levels of 11-keto-testosterone can be double the levels of testosterone.
In this study this was not the case. Men had about 20 times higher T levels compared to 11keto-T.
Weird ...
https://sci-hub.ren/10.1210/jc.2016-2311 -
Day 4 update:
I think this XI-KT product is really good. The extra ingredients don't appear to be a problem so far and it appears like it does in fact contain 11 keto T. Add to that how 11kT doesn't aromatize and this would probably be a good supplement for Peaty bodybuilding.
The only downsides, however, are how it's a lot more expensive than injectable T (5000mg of T isocaproate goes for about $80 and has a longer half life) and how applying it transdermally gets annoying because of the long dry times.
I'm not sure what I want to do from here but so far the effects have been uneventful other than a ramped up metabolism and lots of muscle growth thanks to it working synergistically with Peaty nutrition to block cortisol.
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@Mauritio
So in essence, 11-keto-T is as androgenic as T and doesn't aromatize.
The reports I find make it clear that 11-keto-T is far from as anabolic as T. Actually hardly anabolic at all.
That just shifts 11-keto-T to being an androgenic anti-cortisol compound if I'm not missing out on anything here.
Then it must not be placed on the same pedestal as T at all. Standard DHT is fairly affordable and standardized - what's the point of 11-keto-T as an unneccesarily more expensive substance relative to DHT? -
@CrumblingCookie 11 keto steroids aren't illegal to buy whereas testosterone is, that is why they are sold as research chemicals and supplements.
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@CrumblingCookie I don't know if what you're saying holds up. Anabolism is mostly blocking of cortisol and partially androgenicism. The study shows 11 keto T is as androgenic as regular T, so there's that. I don't know if the anti-cortisol effects are as strong though which would be the defining factor for those reports.
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@alfredoolivas The "illegal to buy" kind of seems like a moot point here. The institutions and universities doing research on these things are clearly buying them from somewhere or are synthesizing it themselves, a process almost 100 years old and nothing unusual. And anyone can just buy premade vials from many places online. The market cap is clearly huge given how publicly known the whole steroidsphere is along with peptides. So in my comparison I'm not even thinking about that and solely evaluating the products on a purely physical basis.
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11 keto Testosterone peeks between 15-18 years of age.
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@Mauritio is this a good thing or a bad thing? would it be youthening?
what is more youthening ? testosterone or a metabolite like 11 kt?
