@metabolicmilk Probably going to start with 50mg and see how I feel. Main thing is stress resistance -- have a difficult job.

Interested in starting a low dose just as an anti-stress measure and maybe improve gym progress. Wondering if anyone here has had good or bad experiences with it.

Literature appears to show only a 50% LH suppression and similar suppression of T and Estrogen at 250mg/day doses

Maybe a 50% LH cut isn’t too bad even if I quit the DHT abruptly because my T is already at a decent level to start?

@eugene

Get rid of the plastic on the lamp imo. I have the sam thing but don’t use plastic so that it doesn’t feel sketchy.

Other than that you can get a ceramic lamp socket on a cord and put a hook on the ceiling. I used a bottle lamp kit but I don’t recommend them

@anabology

Looking closer at the study it does seem that the Polysorbate increased weight gain -- control group didn't gain nearly as much weight.

It makes you drink more. They did this experiment with the Maasai in 1974:

The initial observation that cow's milk may actually be hypocholesteremic in humans was made by Mann and Spoerry (26) in 1974. These investigators studied a group of Maasai tribesman in Africa since the Maasai male seems to be immune to clinical forms of coronary heart disease (CHD) (28). The Maasai possess low levels of serum cholesterol (29) and a low incidence of clinical coronary disease despite a diet rich in mUk and meat which is alleged to be a factor in CHD of western man. While investigating this paradox, Mann and Spoerry (26) serendipitously discovered that consumption of large quantities of fermented milk by the Maasai actually lowered their serum cholesterol values and overwhelmed the hypercholesteremic action of a surfactant added to the milk. At the time, these workers were examining a hypothesis that surfactant food additives (in the diet of Westerners) would facilitate absorption of cholesterol from the gut resulting in hypercholesteremia. Since the Maasai normally did not consume surfactants in the diet and since they possessed a normally low serum cholesterol value, they were selected as subjects to test this hypothesis

A group of 24 Maasai males aged 16 to 23 years was divided randomly into two groups of 12. One group received fermented milk containing an olive oil placebo (control) whereas the "treatment" group received Tween 20 in the fermented milk. The men were given their usual diet of fermented milk for 6 days per week and meat on the 7th. The cow's milk (produced by European breeds) was obtained from a local creamery as pasteurized milk without additives or homogenization. It was seeded with a wild culture of Lactobacillus and after 2-3 days in a 65-70 F room, it was stirred to disperse the curd and the additives were incorporated. Tween 20 was added at a level of 10 mg/g fat in the "treatment" milk.

Body weights, heights, skin fold, blood pressure and blood cholesterol of the subjects were measured. Blood cholesterol was determined on treatment days -3, 0 and thereafter at 7-day intervals.

Normally, each Maasai male consumes abut 4-5 liters of fermented milk daily containing approximately 660 k cal/liter. However as this study progressed the consumption of milk increased until by treatment day 4, the 24 men were consuming 200 liters/day amounting to 8.33 liters/man/day which would furnish each subject with 5,500 kcal. Despite efforts by the investigators to restrict the caloric intake of the two groups, excessive weight gain in the subjects caused the experiment to be terminated after 3 weeks.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284618436_The_Hypocholesteremic_Effect_of_Milk_-_A_Review

Tween 20 = Polysorbate 20 ~ Polysorbate 80

All surfactants. Either in this study the abundance allowed them to drink as much as they wanted (I assume they already had abundance, having cows) or it made them hungrier.

@peatilian lol the first study you posted
“Furthermore, a testosterone/estrogen imbalance was evident with testosterone serum levels significantly increased by 97 % by comparison to controls, while estradiol serum levels were decreased by 26 %.”

Glyphosate increases testosterone lmao

maybe yall are right tho

@Terminator Paul Saladino eating avocados out of glass

Ray Peat never talked about glyphosate or microplastics. I think he thought these entirely didn't matter compared to greater evils. These always interact with PUFAs in every study (see: malondialdehyde as the readout).

If you look at the rodent studies on reproductive toxicity, the minimum glyphosate dose any study ever uses is 40 mg/kg. Divide by 12.3 (for mice) and multiply by 80kg for a reasonable dose for an adult male to get the same toxicity: 260mg of glyphosate needed at the lowest end of effect.

Pretty much every other effect in mouse needs this huge dose. The lowest I see is 5 mg/kg for rats (divide by 6.2 for human dose), inducing oxidative stress in the liver (mitigated by lack of PUFAs), whereas at the very very most humans excrete 75 ug/L of urine if they're occupationally exposed, or ~100x less if not exposed very often.

Glyphosate has a predicted logp of -4.6, meaning it's very water soluble, so it's likely going right thru the kidneys and not being stored in fat.

75 ug/L excreted in urine with an average of 1-2L urine of day of glyphosate excretion means you literally get 0.075 mg/day as an adult human if you're occupationally exposed to it.

The lowest dosed rat studies are like 1000x higher than this.

Not rly worried about glyphosate. If you're sensitive to it you already have too many PUFAs and you're fucked anyway

@peatilian will issue. Inshallah Minute Maid will be pesticide free for me and my family. Pesticides will be bestowed upon my enemy. Coca Cola company is Holy

@anabology This is for prevention but treatment I throw everything at it if it happens:

• t3 -- higher dose than I usually tolerate
• 1g aspirin
• a lot of baking soda
• latte with a ton of maple syrup
• progesterone
• more calories
• sparkling water if thirsty