@mostlylurking said in Genetically Vit A Deficient.:
@MostlyCurious said in Genetically Vit A Deficient.:
@mostlylurking said in Genetically Vit A Deficient.:
Were you tested for hypothyroidism? What is your temp when you wake up? A higher waking temp can be caused by high adrenaline rather than good thyroid function.
Do you know which test was used for testing B1? There are a number of B1 tests that do not show whether B1 is actually working. Info about B1 testing.
Ray Peat on carotene
One thing that stands out (to me at least) is that carotene interferes with progesterone production which would be a cause for high estrogen which messes with vitamin A conversion.Your labs also include a lot of info on the so called "essential" fatty acids; omega 3's and omega 6's. If you have not already done so, reading Ray Peat's articles on fats would be helpful.
I hope you find this helpful.
Apologies for missing anything, I'm using the app and it's slightly stubborn at letting me see your reply while I'm replying kinda deal.
First let me say I'm not against the concept of Vitamin A toxicity, it's just that I don't have the typical symptoms or otherwise discussed with toxicity and I am dealing with a cultural predisposition that others likely aren't.
OK. I just thought it might be safer for you to simply eat high quality eggs for the vitamin A rather than taking a supplement but I guess you could switch to food sources when you stop the supplement in March.
My issue is I already eat tons of eggs that we raise alongside allll of the dairy, grass fed meat, even goat milk which has retinol vs beta carotene like cows milk.
So what I'm going to do is supplement until mid March, continue on my already naturally high in retinol diet, then retest my levels.
I do understand that serum levels aren't overly accurate, but it's what I have to go off of.
My only real physical issues are pure exhaustion (much of my own doing/workaholic), slight lower stomach (cortisol for sure), and recently my memory/word recall had crashed so hard that I actually decided to screen myself for Alzheimer's (high risk from being prescribed benzo long term in my 20's) and am thankfully fine there.
Exhaustion, low stomach acid, poor memory/word recall are all symptoms of thiamine deficiency. Thiamine deficiency is implicated in all the dementias. I had all of these symptoms you list and I recovered from all of them via high dose thiamine hcl.
I don't have any digestive issues and have never felt any different using thiamine. I also eat a fair amount of pork. I'll add it back in and see if anything changes.
Since beginning to use low dose retinol/K's/C I am seeing a steady improvement in all of the above, I don't plan on taking the retinol long term however and will pause mid March.
I took retinol for a few months; I quit because I intuitively realized it wasn't good for me.
See for me I feel the opposite, I'm watching everyone scream that it's basically the root cause of humans not being immortal () but everything in my body is screaming that's wrong for me.
I understand the improvements could be due to K/C.
I take K, I rely on drinking orange juice for my C.
I've been deep diving into Vitamin C and the truth is OJ just doesn't cut it if you're not living in a bubble that protects you from all of the things that deplete it.
Also I was drinking tons of OJ, eating oranges, all sorts of C rich foods. Just didn't matter.
I definitely agree that most C on the market is garbage, but when you literally have scurvy and wounds stop healing you pick a lesser of evil pretty quickly.
I've gone through 3 types all of which were actually clean: Pure Quali C absorbic acid made me shit no matter what, buffered with calcium C made me gassy (not normal for me), finally I found a liposomal C and while it does have sunflower lecithin (nothing else nasty) it doesn't bother my digestion and most importantly my wounds are now healing.
Anyhow:
I'm F 38 and come from a pretty genetically isolated culture with many weird mutations similar to the Navajo nations some remote African tribes.
(like many of us have a type of milk protein allergy that makes us go septic and die and sadly first mothers milk is typically how we find out... Turbo lactose intolerance ha)
Thiamine is used to treat septicemia. Some people are born with thiamine problems (genetic issue). The work around is to give high dose thiamine. Dr. Lonsdale worked with some of these cases when he was a pediatrician at the Cleveland Clinic.
Interesting, I'll dig into that more.
I went to two endocrinologist over the last few years due to developing severe reactive hypoglycemia after following Ray's principals and finally gaining a healthy amount of weight.
Reactive hypoglycemia is when you eat a meal with high carbs/sugars, then you release some insulin which makes your blood sugar go lower that it was before you ate, right? Maybe your liver isn't doing great so it is unable to store sugar like it's supposed to?
Kinda, it's where your pancreas over reacts to carbs and slams you with huge amounts of insulin. Then your numbers crash to dangerous lows, it happens in less than 30 mins sometimes even as you begin eating. It may have been my liver at the time, but B12 fixed it.
To be fair, I was very underweight my entire life (85-90 lbs/homeless street kid/shut down hunger single/lived off of cortisol & trauma) and my predisposition to developing type 2 was high due to that.
All of that to say, I'm fine now (I discovered a B12 deficiency) but my thyroid was fine, the main endocrinologist was actually shocked that I didn't have any thyroid issues & he dug really hard to find something.
Do you remember what your TSH was?
I don't recall at the moment but I also don't have the typical thyroid issues (beyond tired) that I see so many people suffer with.
My waking temps are always 98.4-6, HOWEVER they didn't budge past 97.9 until I corrected my B12 deficiency last year (used self injection).
I used to do that. Haven't done it in decades though. I recently found a sublingual b-12 that I'm trying out.
Yeah I tried the sublinguals for a time but ultimately I respond better to the shots. Side note: Daughter has pernicious anemia with the intrinsic factor so she's getting shots for life. She's already on thiamine
I also am not estrogen dominant (had him do a full panel), and while I understand that estrogen hides in tissue I have lower level of normal and have zero estrogen dominance symptoms. (Perfect skin with literally zero effort/easy periods/dangerously fertile/sex drive, etc)
For a time working with progest E in an attempt to cope with stress crashed my T, that's not fun especially since women have so little it's easy to do.
Thiamine and magnesium are very good for stress.
The impact of oxidative stress in thiamine deficiency: A multifactorial targeting issue
also
Interactions of oxidative stress with thiamine homeostasis promote neurodegeneration
also
Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited
I was unable to tolerate much magnesium until I began high dosing thiamine hcl. Thiamine supplementation improves the ability to tolerate magnesium.
I've never actually had an issue tolerating magnesium, I'm currently using magnesium chloride as it reliably gives me a wave of calm after taking it and I'm like... already body I hear ya.
Pine Pollen for a month brought my levels back up to normal thankfully & I didn't touch progesterone again.
Yes I'm aware of the issue with PUFAs which is likely why I'm "low". Also, even before learning about them from a Ray Peat standpoint I grew up culturally being told it was all poison.
So we mainly cooked with butter/tallow/lard and we were too poor to buy pre packed foods, while I know some scoff at any PUFA my main point is I didn't come to his work dripping in rancid canola oil
I didn't either; I came dripping in olive oil and beta-carotene.
I'm pretty sure I just sh*t out beta carotene since my liver can't uptake it that's just a wild theory with no backing, but since I can't process it and I'm not dealing with any skin going orange I'm just assuming it's not building up.
I'm not sure which B1 testing they did but I will reach out and ask.
Because the accurate thiamine test is so hard to find (my own doctor failed to find any lab in the U.S. that does it), many advise simply getting some thiamine hcl and taking some and evaluate your response. Thiamine hcl has a very long track record and is considered a safe supplement. However, because thiamine hcl doesn't absorb efficiently through the gut wall a much higher dose is needed than if you try TTFD thiamine. 100mgs of TTFD is considered an effective dose. However, some people (like me) can't tolerate TTFD because it uses glutathione to work. So I just take pure powder thiamine hcl, dissolved in water; my dose is 1gram, 2Xday. I'm following Dr. Costantini's protocol; he always used thiamine hcl to treat his Parkinson's Disease patients.
I've sent an email, I used that particular company because it was the most comprehensive blood test I could do at home. The vitamin C deficiency makes my veins collapse (no collagen synthesis=brittle veins) so giving blood is newly a nightmare.
As far as the oxidative stress I'm curious about the impacts of vitamin C deficiency on this.
I don't know; ever since I heard Ray Peat say that the vitamin C supplements are now full of free radicals (heavy metals?) I haven't taken any supplements of C. I drink orange juice for the C; I take high dose thiamine hcl for the antioxidant properties.
My magnesium levels are at the upper level of the range, but I'm not surprised as I do supplement.
Which type of magnesium are you taking? how much? When you take thiamine, you utilize magnesium more/better. They work together.
Thankfully I don't have any amalgam fillings, when you're poor they just pull the teeth out
Always look at the bright side of your life!
I know there are a lot of reasons to distrust genetics expert's and such but for the first time in years I'm finally seeing a real change in my health after aligning with my genetic oddities so it's hard to ignore that.
I think that the reason that I'm not keen on geneticists is because they (and most doctors) always blame EVERYTHING on genetics; genetics has become the scapegoat for the cause and since there's no "fix", the doctors feel fine about not actually curing anybody. They just push their toxic pharmaceuticals to "help" with symptoms. The concept of nutrition and vitamin deficiencies isn't even considered.
I hear you, truly. I guess because I'm the one who figured out my genetics and I'm not some lazy Dr saying "you're xxxx because of genetics" it's just more... applicable.
It's especially hard to ignore when I'm like "I have all of the mutations that prevent A/K uptake/synthesis and those are what my labs always say I'm low in".
But to throw a bone in that direction I'm also MTHFR but my folate levels are fine.
I'm dealing with mercury toxicity so my own problem doesn't have anything to do with genetics. Many health problems are caused by environmental toxins and also by vitamin/mineral deficiencies.
And one can drive another, also as a topic of interest mold exposure can deplete Vitamin A/C which just throws a wrench into everything since there's a mold epidemic in most first world sealed home countries.
I did find your response very helpful as I genuinely enjoy "talking out" possibilities and no doubt I'll think about all of this in the background for dots to connect.
As a side note: I don't really eat any processed foods so I'm not being exposed to the crazy amounts of Vit A being added to things as I think that's a huge factor for the folks that are suffering from toxicity.
Apparently, it's the supplementation of vitamin A that causes most toxicities to A. Dietary sources for vitamin A (eggs, dairy, etc) aren't the culprits. Beta-carotene is another story though so I avoid it.
I am opting for a retinol that's derived from cod liver oil (gasp, I know) vs totally synthetic. That took digging to find.