Glyphosate doesn't matter
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Ray Peat never talked about glyphosate or microplastics. I think he thought these entirely didn't matter compared to greater evils. These always interact with PUFAs in every study (see: malondialdehyde as the readout).
If you look at the rodent studies on reproductive toxicity, the minimum glyphosate dose any study ever uses is 40 mg/kg. Divide by 12.3 (for mice) and multiply by 80kg for a reasonable dose for an adult male to get the same toxicity: 260mg of glyphosate needed at the lowest end of effect.
Pretty much every other effect in mouse needs this huge dose. The lowest I see is 5 mg/kg for rats (divide by 6.2 for human dose), inducing oxidative stress in the liver (mitigated by lack of PUFAs), whereas at the very very most humans excrete 75 ug/L of urine if they're occupationally exposed, or ~100x less if not exposed very often.
Glyphosate has a predicted logp of -4.6, meaning it's very water soluble, so it's likely going right thru the kidneys and not being stored in fat.
75 ug/L excreted in urine with an average of 1-2L urine of day of glyphosate excretion means you literally get 0.075 mg/day as an adult human if you're occupationally exposed to it.
The lowest dosed rat studies are like 1000x higher than this.
Not rly worried about glyphosate. If you're sensitive to it you already have too many PUFAs and you're fucked anyway
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@Terminator Paul Saladino eating avocados out of glass
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@anabology said in Glyphosate doesn't mater:
Glyphosate has a predicted logp of -4.6, meaning it's very water soluble, so it's likely going right thru the kidneys and not being stored in fat.
Glyphosate bioaccumulates in cartilage. Especially bovine cartilage, which is of special interest to those who consume gelatin/collagen. Besides, there is quite literally a billion dollar industry in proving glyphosate safe by way of "research".
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@anabology He mentions organophosphates inhibiting cholinesterase, but I guess this is not true of glyphosate?
Interesting points.
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the hundreds of studies demonstrating potent estrogenicity dont bother you?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278691513003633
These results indicated that low and environmentally relevant concentrations of glyphosate possessed estrogenic activity.
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I have linked 2 studies regarding minute doses of glyphosate causing liver/kidney damage with 0 mention of PUFA
https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12940-015-0056-1
https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/15/4/1416 -
- Glyphosate may substitute for glycine and contribute to kidney failure.
- Glyphosate is a probable carcinogen according to the IARC monograph.
- Glyphosate was only initially approved by the EPA on the back of fraudulent trials, one where the PI was eventually jailed, and another where a cancer specialist found the carcinogicity statistically insignificant because he found a small tumor in the control group
There are many good books about it, including Whitewash by Carey Gillam. You can also watch the lawyer Brent Wisner, who won the $B verdicts against Monsanto, argue his closing statement that glyphosate is carcinogenic, genotoxic, and hepatotoxic.
Ray does mention glyphosate, he says, "Glyphosate is very bad because it's poisonous in a variety of ways."
The arguments about low acute toxicity are exactly what the Monsanto lawyers use and I don't think they apply because we're chronically exposed, which is why glyphosate is found in breast milk, urine, and blood of practically everyone in this country. We should probably follow Mexico and Russia and ban it outright.
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@anabology One more thing about microplastics - they're xenoestrogens. So when he was talking about ubiquitous estrogenic compounds in the environment or stressors he's implicitly including microplastics.
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Stephanie Seneff, the most knowledgeable person I've ever seen on glyphosate, theorizes that glyphosate can get mistakenly placed in the glycine position in peptides in the body. Doing so in just the right spot, would only take a handful of glyphosate molecules to wreak havoc. Glyphosate to her is what PUFA was to Peat. She has me convinced, at least.
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@peatilian lol the first study you posted
“Furthermore, a testosterone/estrogen imbalance was evident with testosterone serum levels significantly increased by 97 % by comparison to controls, while estradiol serum levels were decreased by 26 %.”Glyphosate increases testosterone lmao
maybe yall are right tho
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@anabology “peat didn’t talk about it so it didn’t matter” fucking gorilla nigger brain
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@anabology if that's accurate, I suspect that since glyphosate is directly estrogenic, increased estrogen signalling over time would downregulate aromatase, all the while overall estrogenic effects are still higher than baseline
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@brad Based Brad, opposing evil Monsanto.
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@brad said in Glyphosate doesn't matter:
Według monografii IARC glifosat jest prawdopodobnym czynnikiem rakotwórczym .
the evidence for this is inconclusive. It's hard to say whether this is actually true. Other institutions have denied that glyphosate is highly carcinogenic.
@brad said in Glyphosate doesn't matter:
Glifosat może zastąpić glicynę i przyczynić się do niewydolności nerek .
the article discusses the synergistic effect of the substance on renal failure. The importance of FLUORINE, HEAVY METALS AND DEHYDRATION was also emphasized. The article itself raises the issue of people working in agriculture. I don't think this has anything to do with the average consumer.
The importance of glyphosate in the pathophysiology of kidney disease requires better research.
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@iPeat said in Glyphosate doesn't matter:
Stephanie Seneff, the most knowledgeable person I've ever seen on glyphosate, theorizes that glyphosate can get mistakenly placed in the glycine position in peptides in the body. Doing so in just the right spot, would only take a handful of glyphosate molecules to wreak havoc. Glyphosate to her is what PUFA was to Peat. She has me convinced, at least.
She convinced me as well. I make sure to get as much glycine as possible throughout the day.
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What a weird post. Ray has said himself that glyphosate causes genetic, mitochondrial and nerve damage. Just because it's water soluble and leaves the body quickly doesn't mean it's not toxic and degrading to an organism. It will leave permanent changes to an organism, just like any powerful substance, and in the amounts used by the agricultural industry, it's completly ignorant to believe that it doesn't have a significantly negative effect on modern ecology and the biological quality of man.
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No glyphosate and microplastics are real issues in the sense Peat often mentioned the omnipresence of stressors and especially endocrine disruptors and the fact it runs your glycine stores dry and could lead to degenerative diseases
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@Fructose FYI your quotes are in Polish while I was typing in English. Interesting localization logic on the forum.
I agree that neither of those studies are conclusive on their own. If you listen to the Brent Wisner closing statement he does a more thorough review of the literature where there's adequate evidence to support genotoxicity, renotoxicity, and carcinogenicity. And he shows that the initial approval of glyphosate/Roundup was a sham.
Since there's no way to avoid it when in use as it becomes a ubiquitous environmental contaminant, I think following the precautionary principle and banning it outright would be the most healthful and environmentally sound option.
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@brad said in Glyphosate doesn't matter:
@Fructose FYI your quotes are in Polish while I was typing in English. Interesting localization logic on the forum.
I agree that neither of those studies are conclusive on their own. If you listen to the Brent Wisner closing statement he does a more thorough review of the literature where there's adequate evidence to support genotoxicity, renotoxicity, and carcinogenicity. And he shows that the initial approval of glyphosate/Roundup was a sham.
Since there's no way to avoid it when in use as it becomes a ubiquitous environmental contaminant, I think following the precautionary principle and banning it outright would be the most healthful and environmentally sound option.
What do you mean by "Interesting localization logic"?
That's right, I come from Poland.
Indeed, I need to dig deeper into Brent's views/statement. Thanks.
