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    10th Grade Daughter is Vaping

    Not Medical Advice
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    • P
      Peatful
      last edited by

      Nicotine. THC. Chemicals.
      It’s called FRYED.
      Flavored.

      Tell me why it is ok
      OR
      Tell me why it’s far from ok

      Im looking for pragmatism
      Studies
      Anecdotes

      Im not happy about it in general

      Im trying not to over or under react
      Nor have I told my husband yet

      I say she is a few months in
      Aside from being a sullen teenager
      She’s a happy kid

      Thank you

      Addendum:
      Nothing will trouble me that you say
      I think for myself
      But feel lost here a bit because
      when I was her age
      It just wasn’t a thing

      @JamesGatz

      One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.

      -DB

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      • CO3C
        CO3 @Peatful
        last edited by

        @Peatful It's bad. we don't have good data on the health effects of the chemicals. and it's illegal

        Master Broth Recipe: https://twitter.com/thesquattingman/status/1737526599023526043 / https://recipeats.org/master-broth/

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        • B
          basednigga2006 @Peatful
          last edited by basednigga2006

          Oohh really? : /

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          • P
            Peatful @CO3
            last edited by

            @CO3 it’s illegal: How so? Meaning under age?

            Thx for your response

            One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.

            -DB

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            • S
              saturnuscv
              last edited by

              THC suppresses steroidogenesis, including the creation of neurosteroids that protect the brain, and will legitimately give you brain damage if it’s used daily. Also not super awesome for the liver and can cause fatty liver disease in addition to making you gain weight (fat) more easily. Using THC as a teenager was probably the most overall negative thing I ever did for my health.

              Nicotine is not really that big of a deal apart from being mildly addicting. The issue with vapes is the potential for heavy metals to leech out of the heating element and be vaporized along with the vape juice. (The juice itself may have some health concerns associated but hasn’t been around long enough for anyone to know)

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              • P
                Peatful @saturnuscv
                last edited by

                @saturnuscv

                What could I have said to you as a non judgmental but firm mom-
                To help you stop as a teen?

                Thx for your reply.

                One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.

                -DB

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                • S
                  saturnuscv @Peatful
                  last edited by

                  @Peatful honestly, I can’t tell you what to say. My parents tried to stop me but I was hardheaded about it and just became deceitful. I thought it was perfectly safe and ignored their loving attempts to correct my behavior. (“its like… a natural plant mannnn”)

                  I had to learn the hard way when I became too sick, lazy, and retarded to function.

                  From a place of full sincerity, I think the teenage urge towards psychoactive drugs is just a desire for novelty. I don’t know how open-minded you are, but one option would be trying to redirect her desire for such novelty onto a different, less harmful substance such as psilocybin or other mild psychedelic. Which would be self-limiting as they only “work” for a few hours once every several weeks. She’ll still feel “cool” but it won’t interfere with her schooling or brain development.

                  Ray spoke positively about similar substances, and I actually made good use of them to help my autism and I would even say they helped me reverse some of the damage done by THC…

                  If that’s out of the question, (reasonable), there’s really nothing you can do short of impressing the hormonal impact. I’m sure a teenage girl might receive poorly the information that THC damages your metabolism and could make her gain weight. She might also not like the potential long term fertility effects if she has any inclination towards being a mother. (Weed babies come out a bit retarded)

                  On nicotine/vapes, just impress the reality that these things are totally new tech and have untested ingredients, and potential for heavy metal exposure (and all the associated diseases).

                  Also just coming from a regular nicotine user due to dependence, holy shit is it an expensive fucking habit.

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                  • ?
                    A Former User
                    last edited by A Former User

                    Unfortunately I do not have useful advice to input here.

                    Had a similar situation with my own sister when she went away for college (The thing I was advising her not to do was probably about 100 times worse than this). Anyway, that situation taught me a lot about people in general.

                    But anyway, it's useful to think about it like this:
                    I was not the only person advising my sister on things, she has friends, she has sorority sisters, she has a boyfriend, etc. she has XYZ people in her ear influencing her to do certain things and she's young so of course she's going to continue doing it until she learns her lesson. Unfortunately for my sister, those decisions have life-long consequences for her that will never go away and she cannot take back.

                    And when working with teens/kids, you really just the same thing all the time: They are too young to make conscious decisions and to grasp long-term consequences of XYZ until they learn their lesson of course.

                    Anyway, I'm sure you know by now: the more you try to force it, the more they resist against you. Trying to brute-force anyone into stopping anything even if you are using logic, is a sure-fire way to have them want to resist against you even more.

                    If it was me, I suppose I would try to get her off THC and probably stick to Nicotine or Tobacco (Not ideal, but its better than THC).

                    If that doesn't work, then what can you do really? Even if you took it away from her you have to keep in mind she has friends, a whole school full of people she knows (probably the people who introduced it to her in the first place), that can help her just get another one.

                    Honestly, I wouldn't be too down on yourself if that was the worst thing she was doing, because I have seen so much worse working in schools and dealing with my own sister. I would just be mindful that continuing to do things like this leads her to a path where she continues to make bad decisions. So, I'm not sure - maybe try to convince her to switch off THC for something safer or make some kind of compromise. But anyway, like I said, I don't have any useful advice for this situation. Sometimes, kids just have to learn from experience.

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                    • P
                      Peatful @saturnuscv
                      last edited by

                      @saturnuscv

                      You don't read as autistic, stunted or retarded

                      Very well thought out and balanced response

                      Thx mate
                      Appreciate it

                      One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.

                      -DB

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                      • S
                        saturnuscv @Peatful
                        last edited by

                        @Peatful I appreciate that, but it took a lot of work (exogenous hormones, serotonin antagonists, and peating) to get my cognitive function back to a reasonable baseline… so please don’t take me as evidence that weed is harmless 😉

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                        • P
                          Peatful @A Former User
                          last edited by

                          @JamesGatz

                          Thx for your quick response

                          I tagged you knowing you possibly taught in high schools
                          Seeing this first hand

                          We live in a affluent and materialistic part of our city
                          We are the only family we know that kept our kids unvaxxed

                          The poor counties come to our high school to deal heroin to the rich kids
                          It’s gross here

                          Ive read in the last day or two
                          Online advice dealing with this matter

                          It seems extreme and inflammatory
                          But
                          I may be naive

                          Thx again for reaching out

                          One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.

                          -DB

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                          • izkrovI
                            izkrov
                            last edited by izkrov

                            There are a myriad of studies establishing correlation between THC and psychosis/schizophrenia. The basic google search says "Cannabis is involved in approximately 50% of psychosis, schizophrenia, and schizophreniform psychosis cases" (5 sources in https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3927252/)

                            The mechanism is a bit more difficult to prove. Ray Peat says about schizophrenics:

                            "Schizophrenics were significantly more hypofrontal than the controls" (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7892362/)
                            "Decreased frontal cortical glucose metabolism has been demonstrated in adult schizophrenics both at rest and while engaging in tasks that normally increase frontal metabolism," (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9437771/)

                            There's a similar structure to cannabis users:

                            Cannabis Abusers (started from a young age) show hypofrontality and lower brain glucose metabolism (https://www.nature.com/articles/npp201667)

                            Acute marijuana users are on the same trajectory as chronic marijuana users from (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12784905/)

                            Haidut writes about how it increases serotonin signalling, with a link between serotonin and forms of psychosis

                            All over the place you'll find that neurosteroids rise in the brain in order to counteract the effects of drugs like cocaine and this is also the case with pregnenolone in response to THC

                            When you first smoke weed it is difficult to get high, but with each subsequent time you do it, it gets easier for you to get high. To me this means the THC interferes with the way pregnenolone is structured in the brain. THC also inhibits steroidogenesis by preventing the conversion of pregnenolone to progesterone. I think if this pregnenolone isn't converted into anything downstream, it's just excreted.

                            There's also a structurally similar lesser brain glucose metabolism (which is seen in aging: Lower brain glucose metabolism in normal ageing is predominantly frontal and temporal) akin to schizos.

                            Anecdotally every pothead I know has the demeanor of an easy going, chill guy but seemingly blows up at the slightest inconvenience, has difficulty sleeping, has tubby tits (it's also anti androgenic from what I remember) and has some form of anxiety.

                            Honestly just tell her to smoke cigs.

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                            • B
                              bot-mod
                              last edited by

                              That's right around the time I smoked my first doob, and bong, and blunt. Oops.

                              It definitely derailed my dopamine response and made it harder to order an expectation, an effort and a reward. But was that the cannabis anymore than than my "social" life lighting up. And without the latter would it have persisted without places, times and company. I don't know.

                              I'm not sure parental intervention could have put a stop to this. But I never revealed it, nor was I asked directly. And I had an elaborate system to conceal it. What would it have meant if it did. I'd probably have looked a lot smarter on paper, gone to a better university, and been able to jam over prog metal blindfolded. So all in it's probably liable to misdirect attention and the flow of energy, in and out. You can get her wise to that in your triage, but she probably is in her own way already.

                              The context of her use will matter a lot. The "happy kid" part speaks for itself. She's unlikely to be capable of faking that in your eyes. So it's probably a peer thing. With a hint of disquiet about the nature of this world and its expectations. Get your intel Peatful 💪 Keep talking and don't worry without a starker indication you ought to.

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                              • P
                                Peatful @izkrov
                                last edited by

                                @izkrov

                                Diving in to the links

                                Can’t thank you enough

                                One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.

                                -DB

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                                • P
                                  Peatful @bot-mod
                                  last edited by

                                  @ThinPicking

                                  That was great
                                  Thank you

                                  So glad I posted here

                                  One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.

                                  -DB

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                                  • M
                                    Mulloch94
                                    last edited by Mulloch94

                                    Probably bad, but I won't lecture. I started smoking cannabis at 15. As for the science, there seems to be more and more damning evidence to suggest smoking cannabis in adolescents can increase schizo-like symptoms. What's more, well from a bioenergectic perspective it seems like cannabis is actually a stressor. Which is weird to think about, because popular culture paints it as a substance used to "chill people out." But there's evidence showing cannabis smoke increases estrogen and cortisol. There's also evidence to show it could cause cardiovascular issues in people who have long-term use for years and years. Which is certainly plausible considering how serotonergic cannabis is, and serotonin is a cardiac toxin. Other environmental aspects are important to keep in mind too however. Most cannabis smokers eat a processed food diet and live sedentary lifestyles.

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                                    • P
                                      Peatful
                                      last edited by

                                      Hello everyone.

                                      I just gently approached her with the vape pen or pipe in my possession.

                                      And

                                      She denies it is hers

                                      Lol

                                      It’s hers

                                      Im willing to grant amnesty for the truth

                                      If anyone wants to chime in
                                      Im all ears

                                      One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.

                                      -DB

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                                      • P
                                        Peatful @Mulloch94
                                        last edited by

                                        @Mulloch94 thank you

                                        Per usual I’m behind the wheel of a car
                                        But I appreciate you reaching out and I just posted a quick question about amnesty any Feedback, of course is appreciated, but not expected

                                        One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.

                                        -DB

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                                        • B
                                          bot-mod
                                          last edited by

                                          Maybe there's a boy in the frame. There was a girl in mine.

                                          Not a thought for a blame game. It's always us really. But there's always context.

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                                          • S
                                            saturnuscv @Peatful
                                            last edited by saturnuscv

                                            @Peatful just press that she is not in trouble and you are just concerned for her health.

                                            Also “no free lunch,” cliche as it might be, is a pretty good way to illustrate the trade offs of the “chilled out” effect of weed. (It will make you more neurotic without it over time)

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