Why are women today, the non fat ones, better looking than women back then?
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Despite the highly estrogenic environment, 18-24 year old women, the non fat ones, come off as very stunning. Just go to a bar or club today frequented by college girls and see. Every non fat girl at a sorority is definitely breedable.
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How do you think these girls would look like without makeup, filters and photoshop?
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Hollywood and pop culture defines our tastes.
Fashion dictates men wear tight pants these days. Since most men have skinny legs (go to gym and see developed torsos paired with skinny legs), they comply readily. If you have calf muscles, and you comply because you need to belong despite the lack of any comfort, your sense of being is nil. You are a literal sponge to the culture dictated upon you.
Skinny girls look nice, but a Venusian beauty of the Hellenic culture would be called overweight. But sticks and bones and very sharp elbows are like sleeping on bare wood, as compared to sleeping on a lush cushioned bed.
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@oliveoil Still attractive, especially the one on the right. It's not just photoshop and makeup. Think about it rationally.
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They don't seem very feminized in terms of patterns of thinking. So maybe the estrogenic environment is only affecting their physical appearance?
The second issue is that all the girls in this age group you're talking about are on birth control, so who knows what their hormonal situation is.
My instinctual response is that attractive people are breeding together and making more attractive people and it's attracting attention from people who are attracted to attractiveness. Otherwise, for every attractive girl, you can find a ton that aren't so attractive that are probably overflowing with estrogens. But most girls that aren't old or fat are breedable.
And I think we just don't have too many examples from eras gone by because there wasn't TikTok and make-up and immodesty in dress and young girls were quite sheltered. Attractive young girls would especially be hidden from public exposure just out of basic modesty.
Overall though I'm not a big believer in the estrogenic environment theory. If anything, xenoestrogens act in an anti-estrogen manner because they block the receptor with very weak estrogens.
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I do think that nutrition is better today than in old days in the sense that people aren't famished. Maybe the food quality isn't so great but perhaps the human body is better at handling imperfect foods vs. entire food groups or nutrients missing.
We have much better hygiene and medicine today, and that's going to go a long way. Looking at the photo, all three have clean hair and skin and the two clearly have very nice teeth. Go back a hundred years ago and nice teeth might not be so common. How frequently did people bathe 200 years ago?
I wonder if the question posed in the OP could likewise be made for guys today?
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You need to see women without makeup or eyeliner.
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@Sugar how many old paintings have you been looking at that depicted young women from the average population? Most old portraits would have been of rich or otherwise important women, and not necessarily young. So imagine if most of the photographs of women that you saw online today weren't sorority girl selfies, but rather photos of politicians, authors, royal families, etc.
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@Crypt-Keeper I understand exactly what you're talking about. I look at the "wall" as people's metabolism and overall health being pushed to the limit and giving out. There's plenty of attractive 20 year old men and women, but they don't take care of themselves. The most social high status attractive men and women eat lots of junk food and drink lots of alcohol. Men and women alike have more potential to be attractive due to an increase in food, but you can't ignore the role in the estrogenic environment suppressing the testosterone of young men/men during puberty from reaching their full potential and optimal development. Overall the whole species will decline in health but there is a fair amount of outliers with good genetics. My question was if the estrogenic environment had some sort of short term benefit for women and feminine characteristics, which could correlate to larger breast size, bigger butts, and just in general having more sexual market value.
Obviously we'd see a far different society if we lived in an environment full of phytoandrogens and xenoandrogens.
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I'd like to also mention the fact that the current environment, diet, lifestyle for men means higher obesity, which means higher aramatase, which has all sorts of problems for men, and I believe this excess in estrogen can stunt development as well as height. Meaning this high estrogen, whether from diet and or the environment, has no benefit to men, even short term. When women are chubby, this can also mean bigger ass and boobs, there's no benefit for a man to be overweight, this decreases their SMV, while for women this could potentially increase their SMV if fat is gained in the right places, and even a chubby stomach of reasonable size is not a deal breaker. Of course I'm talking short term, I understand how horrible estrogen dominance is for women as they get older.
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@latte I second this.
And beyond the narrowly curated subjects of paintings throughout history, the styles were specific and often did not emphasized realism, but rather followed specific patterns or “styles” of portraying people — this was so with men, as well, and I likewise don’t see handsome men in paintings until the early modern period of art that emphasized such realism of the face and other human details like genitalia (late 1700s as I recall).
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You're spot on.
Think of these teens as chickens raised on factory farms. When they're young, they're plump and tender, and because of the high metabolism of youth, they are healthy.
When picked at this prime age, both chickens and women command good prices at the spot market.
Let the chicken live past 45 days well unto their 90 day age. They are past the growth stage, their metabolism falters, and so does their health, and they succumb to higher mortality rates. They are dying chickens, their meet isn't tender, and they have a smell. It's because the food they were raised on isn't meant to let them live long and in health.
The three teenage girls, living past their growth phase, start to age quickly. Not married off, their market value goes down as well. They quickly become obese and overweight, and if not, their face becomes rough and need more makeup to look attractive. They are fed SAD. Worse, they eat vegan and they start to look like the typical health food store customers that have bad hair and complexion and the only thing going for them is not being SAD plump. They're skinny in the worst way possible.
Men who marry such nice looking teenagers are likely to have to best and grin it for the rest of their lives with these women, who grow horizontally over the rest of their lives together. They have to love their wives as much as Pierce Brosnan loves his wife. OTOH, marry an Asian chick in Asia and you can have the same size and shape and face for the most part of your lives together.
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I don't think it's makeup, the generations really do look different. I don't know why.
I think I remember a study that identified how skull shapes (within the same ethnicity) are changing over the last 100 years, but I can't find it.
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@insufferable said in Why are women today, the non fat ones, better looking than women back then?:
I don't think it's makeup, the generations really do look different. I don't know why.
I think I remember a study that identified how skull shapes (within the same ethnicity) are changing over the last 100 years, but I can't find it.
Just found something:
https://news.utk.edu/2012/05/30/american-heads-getting-larger/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27737575/Skulls have gotten higher, narrower, longer, and larger apparently.
You can look at old pictures, compare them to modern ones, and you can see the narrower and longer change. I noticed it many years ago looking at old pictures.
I guess it's happening for the same reason people are getting taller, this is the same phenomenon happening to the skull. @Crimkadid on twitter talks about stuff like this a lot.
