What to do as a giga fatty?
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It's people with low internal metabolism that need to supplement with walking and a lot of exercises to burn off calories that low metabolism fail to burn.
So, you need to walk and to exercise as your being overweight and as you call being giga fatty is a result of having low internal metabolism, and thus need external metabolism (such as walking and exercises) to lose weight.
But as you improve your internal metabolism, you will not need to rely on external metabolism to lose weight if overweight, or to maintain normal weight.
As I have good internal metabolism, I don't need to walk nor jog nor go to the gym to workout. I actually don't have a sport now that I regularly play. But it is sufficient that I be active and not be a couch potato by surrounding my day with activities such as chores, attending to my hobby of koi keeping, grocery shopping, cooking, home repairs, and ar maintenance and repair. Reading and writing, even just for this forum, uses a lot of brain power, which uses a lot of energy as well.
But I am by no means implying thet my metabolism is optimal already. My resting heart rate is way below Ray's idealized 80ish value. I am dealing with lead toxicity and a low grade infection arising from a history of having periodontal disease. And I believe my capillaries, aka microcirculation, is impeding blood flow to my organs. My ESR, at 19, suggests I have more than my share of sludge in my blood vessels. All these means I have a lot to work on, and I'm working on them, to further improve my metabolism.
I hope that my resting heart rate would eventually increase from the current 68 to around 85, without having to take progesterone. If it reaches there, I would know it is the result of having all the pieces together in my system that supports a high heart rate, which is a higher level of health induced by an increased production of energy.
Next Up- What Is Needed to Have a High Internal Metabolism and Excellent Health
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@yerrag Thanks for the reply
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Find out your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure)
https://www.calculator.net/tdee-calculator.html
Then start using MyFitnessPal to track your meals and eat at one of the calorie amounts it tells you you'll lose weight at.
Losing weight really is as simple as eating less calories than your TDEE.
Just eating a Ray Peat inspired diet is not going to do nothing if you're consistently eating 1000 calories over maintenance.
Also start exercising, walking, lifting, etc. Eat less move more and you'll lose a lot of weight. I've been through many bulk and cut cycles, it works, trust me.
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@Hearthfire you guys never heard of ray peat? I thought this forum is a continuation of the Ray Peat Forum
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What Is Needed to Have a High Internal Metabolism and Excellent Health
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Minimum of PUFA stores and intake
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Minimum of Estrogen Exposure Both from Within and Without Beyond What Is Needed By the Body
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Adequate Intake of Oxygen from Clean Air
Adequate Intake of Macronutrients with Large Majority of Calories being from Carbohydrates (70-80%), with Adequate Protein (20%) and some Fats (10%)
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No Deficiency At All with respect to Vitamins and Minerals As Ideally Provided By A Diverse Intake of Foods As Provided in Nature
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Optimal Exposure to Sunlight
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Minimum of Toxins from Within (Endotoxins) and From Without (Heavy Metals, Vaccines, Excitotoxins , Nanoparticles, and Various Gut Irritants from Persorption)
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Low State of Chronic Infection
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A Sense of Happiness and Mental Well-Being from Positive Influences from a Good Community
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Enough Daily Stimuli to Develop Physically, Mentally, and Spiritually
I think I covered enough in a broad sense. It is all Peaty. It is short on specifics, for the sake of brevity. Ask if expounding needed. Add if missed out on anything.
Next- What You Need To Do To Get Yourself Towards Being Metabolically Fit and Thin and Staying That Way Without Having to Exercise Nor Fast Like Crazy
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@Androsclerozat Yes, but did he deny calories make you fat?
Whatever Ray Peat said doesn't change the reality that your body has a calorie amount (TDEE/maintenance level) that will keep you in equilibrium. If you go above you gain weight, if you go below you lose weight. It's easily observable scientific fact that you can test yourself, as millions and millions and millions of people have already done including myself.
I think the reason a lot of "Peaters" are fat is because they saw him make some outrageous statements about high caloric intake, and they automatically think that means calories are a myth as far as fat gain. I take what Peat said about eating 9000 calories or whatever it was with a huge grain of salt, short of dismissing it.
The man was not a god and everything he said should be questioned, unless this is a cult. I am smart enough to know that some of what he said may be inaccurate, while the bulk of it was probably fairly accurate or spot on. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater because I think one thing he said is questionable. No one gets everything right 100% of the time.
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@Hearthfire True, but my point was that Calories in calories out is controlled by the thyroid hormone and a website that calculates your needed calories doesn't make sense since a hypothyroid person will waste food at a higher rate, which results in slower metabolism.
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DHT and t3
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I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag You've discarded something that's easily testable? And has been done by billions of people? lol, ok.
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@Hearthfire it's not black and white.
A person with good thyroid function will keep weight at 2500 calories (he burns more because he produces more heat)
An hypothyroid will keep at 1500 calories
Both of them will lose weight at 1000 calories, in this case CICO applies, but the 2500 guy will lose fat at a faster rate.
If they will eat 2000 calories, the high thyroid will lose weight and the hypothyroid will gain weight.It's an example.
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You mean people around the world do what educated and highly credentialed people do? The billions of people who only managed to get fat because they followed the exalting example of US pharma and its education arm in the Ivy League?
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@Him weight training, build muscle to increase your metabolism. This helped me change my body composition.
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Thyroid/metabolism doesn't change things nearly as much as people think as far as calories burned...Sorry, don't care what Ray said about it. There's a difference, but it's small. Bodybuilding community has irrefutably proved this. This is why so many Peaters are getting fat. They believed everything that was said about magically consuming 9000 calories and not gaining weight. Sorry, but you need to throw that out, because it was grossly exaggerated.
Everyone has different body composition (muscle and fat), activity levels, height, etc, This is why you calculate a TDEE, and then TEST it. Work out and diet for 2 weeks. Weigh yourself EVERY day. If your weight doesn't go down, adjust calorie intake a bit, test again. If your TDEE calculation was WAY off, you lied when inputting info.
Obese people are not incapable of losing weight because of thyroid function. That's a myth and an excuse they have latched onto, probably given to them by retarded doctors. They ABSOLUTELY can lose weight, they're just lazy and won't stop eating. Everyone can lose weight. There's not a single human on earth who is incapable of losing weight. Point one out to me.
This is an easily testable thing, you can confirm for yourself within a week or two (more time is usually better)
If you haven't done this, or deny that it works, you're either fat or already skinny and never needed to. Simple as.
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@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
I so agree. CICO is a big disappointment because the weight will always come back. Your body hates to starve. It hates deprivation. It will fight you forever after you’ve lost the weight. Being kind to one’s body, (meaning eat enough calories and the right kind of calories) will serve you in a superior way.
I wish I had known this in my 20’s. I was forever starving myself trying to be an imaginary perfect size. I wasn’t even over weight. But starving oneself catches up to you as you get older and your screwed up metabolism is the price you pay.
Personally, and this is big for me, I’ve reached a point where I can eat a lot more calories now and not gain weight. That was unheard of before for me. And now my body temperature stays elevated. Just by nourishing my body. And by eating the RIGHT saturated fat.
Avoid PUFAS like the plague. They are in everything. Science is catching up to Ray Peat. They are finding now that PUFAS are implicated in cancer. And other maladies.
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@Hearthfire said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
Thyroid/metabolism doesn't change things nearly as much as people think as far as calories burned...Sorry, don't care what Ray said about it. There's a difference, but it's small. Bodybuilding community has irrefutably proved this. This is why so many Peaters are getting fat. They believed everything that was said about magically consuming 9000 calories and not gaining weight. Sorry, but you need to throw that out, because it was grossly exaggerated.
Everyone has different body composition (muscle and fat), activity levels, height, etc, This is why you calculate a TDEE, and then TEST it. Work out and diet for 2 weeks. Weigh yourself EVERY day. If your weight doesn't go down, adjust calorie intake a bit, test again. If your TDEE calculation was WAY off, you lied when inputting info.
Obese people are not incapable of losing weight because of thyroid function. That's a myth and an excuse they have latched onto, probably given to them by retarded doctors. They ABSOLUTELY can lose weight, they're just lazy and won't stop eating. Everyone can lose weight. There's not a single human on earth who is incapable of losing weight. Point one out to me.
This is an easily testable thing, you can confirm for yourself within a week or two (more time is usually better)
If you haven't done this, or deny that it works, you're either fat or already skinny and never needed to. Simple as.
This!
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@Him My anecdote is that inflammation, even really minor things like specific food additives, are what prevent me from being able to lose weight. If I have a very strict diet (for me, even avoiding vegetarian cheese enzymes and only having annimal rennet cheese) then I suddenly start losing weight.
Edit: I imagine a lot of the weight I do lose when I am being strict is from water weight, but I'm sure losing the water weight helps a lot anyway.
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@Amethyst said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
I so agree. CICO is a big disappointment because the weight will always come back. Your body hates to starve. It hates deprivation. It will fight you forever after you’ve lost the weight. Being kind to one’s body, (meaning eat enough calories and the right kind of calories) will serve you in a superior way.
I wish I had known this in my 20’s. I was forever starving myself trying to be an imaginary perfect size. I wasn’t even over weight. But starving oneself catches up to you as you get older and your screwed up metabolism is the price you pay.
Personally, and this is big for me, I’ve reached a point where I can eat a lot more calories now and not gain weight. That was unheard of before for me. And now my body temperature stays elevated. Just by nourishing my body. And by eating the RIGHT saturated fat.
Avoid PUFAS like the plague. They are in everything. Science is catching up to Ray Peat. They are finding now that PUFAS are implicated in cancer. And other maladies.
CICO is very flawed. If you don't follow CICO, it's because your body uses both sugar and fat intakes efficiently such that what is eaten is mostly turned into kinetic energy to meet the needs of the here and now, and only a small portion is stored as potential energy. Think of the potential energy as being mostly in the form of fats.
When sugar taken in cannot be quickly processed into energy, it accumulates as high blood sugar. Only for high blood sugar to be lowered by converting the sugar to fats.
So much so that when this happens each times one eats, one would keep adding fats and gain weight, and at the same times, as what he eats does not turn into useful energy (kinetic), he will have little energy as well as be hungry. So he could eat again out of hunger, and becaue he is hungry, he doesn't have a choice but to eat again, and gain more weight as he eats again.
This person will end up obese over time with no control over it. Over time, the body will adapt by requiring less food from him, as it downregulates his metabolism. But by then he is a blob, and will be desperate to try anything to lose weight. He will do all the wrong things to lose weight from fasting to eating less carbohydrates in favor of fats and protein.
It's wrong because by fasting he will be geting keep depriving the body of energy that he is already lacking to sustain his long term health.
And in relying more on eating fats he will come to rely more on glycolysis for burning carbohydrates, and this metabolic pathway is wasteful because it produces little useful energy, and because it produces little carbon dioxide which is needed to provide good tissue oxygenation, which is needed if ever energy production has to be more efficient to give more useful energy. Energy is the currency of health, and with a recurring lack of it one would descend into an existence where little energy is required of him, and he might as well spend his life hibernating.,if that is possible at all. Since it isn't possible, he will be on a downward spiral of degeneration as his tissues and organs slowly die and fail, if he isn't overtaken by cancer or a stroke.
And if he should go on a carnivore diet, he will just have to rely on adrenaline and cortisol to convert protein to much needed sugar, and while his blood sugar will not go thru its highs and lows, as sugar becomes available on demand and is never going to be too much to handle, he will be chronically on stress mode, while his immunity suffers as cortisol destroys his thymus gland, and his system gets to deal with a high ammonia load that brings about higher nitric oxide.
This really leaves us with not much choice but to go back to a high carb nutritional lifestyle as the other options are flawed. So if we are left to eat high carb, how is CICO going to be useful when people's bodies treat carbohydrates very differently?
The healthy and trim ones process sugar very well and the carbohydrates quickly gets metabolized in the mitochondria and produces a lot of energy. Not much sugar is left in the blood in excess to cause them to be converted to fats, and the low insulin levels of good blood sugar regulation allows lipolysis to occur such that body fat is used up and not allowed to accumulate to cause obesity and overweight.
On the other hand, those who become overweight and obese absorb and metabolize sugar very slowly, and their carbohydrate intakes keep getting converted to fats in a never-ending cycle of gaining weight and fat stores.
Clearly, because calories can either end up as active energy that does not weigh much as it is eventually used up, or as potential energy in the form of fats, how does CICO make sense?
Perhaps it makes sense, only in terms of applying to each individual context. Such that my CICO and your CICO are different from one another.
Such that you can apply CICO to yourself. But if you're easily trim and don't require much exercise while eating regular meals, you won't care about CICO.
You're only going to want to deal with CICO only if you're overweight or obese.
But this begs the question, would it better not to deal with CICO, but instead work on improving your sugar mtabolism so that you can be like the trim person who eats 3 full meals a day, doesn't have to walk 10k steps each day, and still maintain a normal weight?
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@Amethyst said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
I so agree. CICO is a big disappointment because the weight will always come back. Your body hates to starve. It hates deprivation. It will fight you forever after you’ve lost the weight. Being kind to one’s body, (meaning eat enough calories and the right kind of calories) will serve you in a superior way.
I wish I had known this in my 20’s. I was forever starving myself trying to be an imaginary perfect size. I wasn’t even over weight. But starving oneself catches up to you as you get older and your screwed up metabolism is the price you pay.
Personally, and this is big for me, I’ve reached a point where I can eat a lot more calories now and not gain weight. That was unheard of before for me. And now my body temperature stays elevated. Just by nourishing my body. And by eating the RIGHT saturated fat.
Avoid PUFAS like the plague. They are in everything. Science is catching up to Ray Peat. They are finding now that PUFAS are implicated in cancer. And other maladies.
CICO is very flawed. If you don't follow CICO, it's because your body uses both sugar and fat intakes efficiently such that what is eaten is mostly turned into kinetic energy to meet the needs of the here and now, and only a small portion is stored as potential energy. Think of the potential energy as being mostly in the form of fats.
When sugar taken in cannot be quickly processed into energy, it accumulates as high blood sugar. Only for high blood sugar to be lowered by converting the sugar to fats.
So much so that when this happens each times one eats, one would keep adding fats and gain weight, and at the same times, as what he eats does not turn into useful energy (kinetic), he will have little energy as well as be hungry. So he could eat again out of hunger, and becaue he is hungry, he doesn't have a choice but to eat again, and gain more weight as he eats again.
This person will end up obese over time with no control over it. Over time, the body will adapt by requiring less food from him, as it downregulates his metabolism. But by then he is a blob, and will be desperate to try anything to lose weight. He will do all the wrong things to lose weight from fasting to eating less carbohydrates in favor of fats and protein.
It's wrong because by fasting he will be geting keep depriving the body of energy that he is already lacking to sustain his long term health.
And in relying more on eating fats he will come to rely more on glycolysis for burning carbohydrates, and this metabolic pathway is wasteful because it produces little useful energy, and because it produces little carbon dioxide which is needed to provide good tissue oxygenation, which is needed if ever energy production has to be more efficient to give more useful energy. Energy is the currency of health, and with a recurring lack of it one would descend into an existence where little energy is required of him, and he might as well spend his life hibernating.,if that is possible at all. Since it isn't possible, he will be on a downward spiral of degeneration as his tissues and organs slowly die and fail, if he isn't overtaken by cancer or a stroke.
And if he should go on a carnivore diet, he will just have to rely on adrenaline and cortisol to convert protein to much needed sugar, and while his blood sugar will not go thru its highs and lows, as sugar becomes available on demand and is never going to be too much to handle, he will be chronically on stress mode, while his immunity suffers as cortisol destroys his thymus gland, and his system gets to deal with a high ammonia load that brings about higher nitric oxide.
This really leaves us with not much choice but to go back to a high carb nutritional lifestyle as the other options are flawed. So if we are left to eat high carb, how is CICO going to be useful when people's bodies treat carbohydrates very differently?
The healthy and trim ones process sugar very well and the carbohydrates quickly gets metabolized in the mitochondria and produces a lot of energy. Not much sugar is left in the blood in excess to cause them to be converted to fats, and the low insulin levels of good blood sugar regulation allows lipolysis to occur such that body fat is used up and not allowed to accumulate to cause obesity and overweight.
On the other hand, those who become overweight and obese absorb and metabolize sugar very slowly, and their carbohydrate intakes keep getting converted to fats in a never-ending cycle of gaining weight and fat stores.
Clearly, because calories can either end up as active energy that does not weigh much as it is eventually used up, or as potential energy in the form of fats, how does CICO make sense?
Perhaps it makes sense, only in terms of applying to each individual context. Such that my CICO and your CICO are different from one another.
Such that you can apply CICO to yourself. But if you're easily trim and don't require much exercise while eating regular meals, you won't care about CICO.
You're only going to want to deal with CICO only if you're overweight or obese.
But this begs the question, would it better not to deal with CICO, but instead work on improving your sugar mtabolism so that you can be like the trim person who eats 3 full meals a day, doesn't have to walk 10k steps each day, and still maintain a normal weight?
People who criticize Peat’s recommendations for eating a certain way, saying that all they did was get fat from it etc. etc. is probably because they approached what he was suggesting, the wrong way.
Because suddenly they felt they had the liberty to eat and eat till their heart’s content, they went overboard in their eating…say for example, eating previously forbidden massive amounts of sugar, or juice or fat ….because they perceived that Peat did not believe in condemning carbs for example.
It was a “party on” mentality for some. They had been let out of the self imposed cage of restriction and reacted to that, going in the opposite direction.
Then after they gained a lot of unnecessary weight, they turned around and said that Peat’s reccomendations didn’t work.
IMO it wasn’t Peat’s recommendations that were/are wrong. It was/is their understanding/perception of his recommendations, and their applying them indiscriminately, in an all or nothing, black and white unstudied fashion, that was/is the problem.
I’m not saying this is applicable in all cases.
In my own case, why I am now approaching things differently in regards to Peat’s suggestions, is because I have more understanding as to the “why” Peat recommended what he did.
It’s not enough to say “stop eating Pufas”. It’s understanding WHY they are bad for you. Or understanding why the over abundance of them in our modern society, has had such a detrimental effect on our health.
You don’t avoid them for just avoidance sake. You avoid them because you understand. Because you take the time to understand, by researching Peat’s writings, and comprehending what they do to the human body in excess.
Then, armed with this new found knowledge, you apply it to your life. And you improve. If you approach it in that way.
Everyone wants an instant fix. Not gunna happen that way. Sure, if you starve yourself to lose weight, you do lose, but then you rebound. And gain more weight back. And are fatter as a result. The body knows when it’s being starved. It rebels.It’s a process coming to understand why Peat wrote what he wrote about different topics.
His principals work, his knowledge is helpful, if you approach them with understanding, also paying attention to how eating a certain way works for you individually.
It’s funny in an ironic way, how the cutting edge popular diet gurus ( if we want to call them that) are now confirming how much of what Peat wrote was accurate. It’s been a long time coming.
