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    Ideas for getting more CO2 into your everyday routine

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    • J
      josh
      last edited by

      Thanks @LetTheRedeemed, i must admit i have dabbled with t3, i found it aggravated the adrenaline a bit, I think because I wasn’t quite ready for it.

      It seems to be this careful balance with thyroid of not increasing it too fast so you don’t spook the adrenaline into action, but providing enough to support the slow transfer to genuine metabolic energy rather than stress hormones.

      @LetTheRedeemed did you find the thyroid increased the stress response first before it subsided? Thanks again

      L 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • serotoninskepticS
        serotoninskeptic @josh
        last edited by

        @josh Eating lots of sugar during the day and saving protein for later in the day has improved my breathing and increased my co2 output

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        • L
          LetTheRedeemed @serotoninskeptic
          last edited by

          @Sugarnotsnow cool observation... I've found that restricting my meat consumption to generally one time of the day (try to hit late after noon as that's when thyroid is highest), gives me more energy and better sleep.

          serotoninskepticS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • L
            LetTheRedeemed @josh
            last edited by LetTheRedeemed

            @josh for sure. There can often be other cofactors that need addressing before using thyroid. One big one is making sure cholesterol is adequately high, or any stimulant will be a stressor, rather than metabolic improver.
            On top of that, other than the AM dose, t3 can often be too much and raise adrenaline. According to a symptom and bloodwork diagnosis, Danny helped me determine what ratio of t3/t4 I needed for lunch and dinner. T4 directly lowers adrenaline. Danny, Mike Fave, and Jay, are definitely the ones to go to for ironing out these details.

            jamezb46J 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • serotoninskepticS
              serotoninskeptic @LetTheRedeemed
              last edited by

              @LetTheRedeemed Yea avoiding those imflammatory amino acids in muscle meat like tryptophan inproves my energy and sleep as well

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              • L
                LetTheRedeemed @serotoninskeptic
                last edited by

                @Sugarnotsnow agreed, I consume quite a bit of gelatin with my protein meals, but I'm pointing out what you noticed, of not eating protein all times of the day, has helped me too!

                serotoninskepticS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • serotoninskepticS
                  serotoninskeptic @LetTheRedeemed
                  last edited by

                  @LetTheRedeemed Yes usually i eat no protein until 4:00 PM. Its been great for my temps and energy

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                  • L
                    LetTheRedeemed @serotoninskeptic
                    last edited by

                    @Sugarnotsnow 🙏 that’s the same time for me as well

                    serotoninskepticS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • serotoninskepticS
                      serotoninskeptic @LetTheRedeemed
                      last edited by

                      @LetTheRedeemed Nice, I think more people should try this approach. I think a lot of people have trouble with peating because they ignore macros and end up with a high carb, high fat, AND high protein diet. I think focusing on sugary carbs while keeping protein and fat moderate throughout the day would solve issues for some

                      yerragY 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • J
                        josh
                        last edited by

                        Thanks @LetTheRedeemed im an avid listener of danny, jay and mike and so will go back through especially dannys recommendations on thyroid. I didnt know t4 directly suppressed adrenaline, i was aware you had to be careful that t4 didnt induce a high parathyroid state induced by stress and liver over whelm. that was my initial reason taking t3 to balance t4. I still take t4, and can see from pulse that in the morning t4 conversion is blocked by stress hormones. The sooner i can lower my stress response in the day the sooner my pulse shoots up from i guess an almost backed up t4. I wonder if the reason t4 doesnt tend to work well for some one its own is their stress levels are just too high to convert, and they need the t3 to prime the system. Maybe when someone is suffering fatigue but their stress response is ok, they would be ok with high t4 and low t3 ratio. Anyway, i definitely found benefit adding adrenaline lowering substances with t4 to enable the body to convert.

                        To throw an added spanner into the mix ive been weening myself off ssri’s which i was given during my health crisis two years ago and i didnt know any better. Im down to 5mg from 50mg sertraline, but who knows what hormonal carnage thats been causing, and think is a contributor to my morning stress problem. At some point i want to try cyproheptadine to see what the other side of the coin feels like but steady does it!

                        Totally agree @Sugarnotsnow @LetTheRedeemed my body craves sugar in the morning so i dont hold back. I think its quenching the stress response and allowing superior metabolic function to resume. Protein and fat to early just gives the body more work to do.

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                        • ChudC
                          Chud
                          last edited by

                          List of things mentioned in this thread
                          increase co2:

                          • acetazolamide
                          • baking soda
                          • bottle rebreather
                          • milk jug rebreather
                          • buteyko
                          • blanket fort
                          • bag breathing
                          • higher elevation
                          • co2 bath
                          • carbogen
                          • b1
                          • mouth taping
                          • air hunger

                          Personally i would add sparkling water / carbonated beverages.

                          breakfast for dinner enjoyer

                          thyroidchor27T serotoninskepticS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • thyroidchor27T
                            thyroidchor27 @Chud
                            last edited by

                            @Chud

                            aspirin and progesterone, and from my experience iodine.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • serotoninskepticS
                              serotoninskeptic @Chud
                              last edited by

                              @Chud sugar

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                              • E
                                Ecstatic_Hamster @serotoninskeptic
                                last edited by

                                Some foods that you eat will lower your carbon dioxide levels.

                                Professor Buteyko used a control pause to determine how much carbon dioxide you're retaining in your body.

                                The control pause correlates well with a difficult test that can only be done in a hospital that measures carbon dioxide in arterial blood.

                                So I can tell with my control pause if foods are lowering my carbon dioxide levels.

                                Protein does lower it somewhat, but also foods that I don't tolerate well lower it quite a bit.

                                If you're not tolerant of a food, your control pause really drops, meaning your carbon dioxide levels drop when you consume that food.

                                Foods that are easiest on carbon dioxide levels or that support higher levels are anything with sugar and starch.

                                Protein generally burdens our carbon dioxide levels, and any food we don't tolerate well lowers carbon dioxide.

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                                • J
                                  josh
                                  last edited by

                                  @Ecstatic_Hamster yeah thats really interesting regarding the change in your control pause length based on different foods. So co2 levels in your body fluctuate quite rapidly, how long does it take to react after eating? And how long does it last.

                                  I notice after 20mins in a co2 bath my stomach starts gurgling, i wonder is this the time it takes for the co2 to reach the cell and improve the oxygen exchange, therefore improving metabolism and lowering sympathetic activation.

                                  It would be interesting to to understand the timing differences between:

                                  • eating co2 promoting foods
                                  • co2 baths
                                  • carbonated drinks
                                  • b1 and other supplements
                                  • carbonegen and paperbag

                                  What one would be the fastest to the slowest? From this maybe you could help moderate your co2 over 24hrs. For instance, a supplement at bed with a co2 bath for a more longer lasting experience, and a carbonated drink in the morning to get your levels up quickly.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • yerragY
                                    yerrag @serotoninskeptic
                                    last edited by yerrag

                                    @Sugarnotsnow said in Ideas for getting more CO2 into your everyday routine:

                                    @LetTheRedeemed Nice, I think more people should try this approach. I think a lot of people have trouble with peating because they ignore macros and end up with a high carb, high fat, AND high protein diet. I think focusing on sugary carbs while keeping protein and fat moderate throughout the day would solve issues for some

                                    I think blending macros to your context is going to help more.

                                    If you ever recall member Cirion at RPF, who suddenly dropped out of the forum ( not banned, so he may have died or may have become so frustrated that he just ghosted himself) he was going extremely hi carb and low protein and fat (relative to carb) and he kept gaining weight and kept hoping for the moment things would turn around, and it never did.

                                    He would be better serves had he lowered his carbs, and increased his protein and fats, as he wasn't metabolically fit enough to burn carbs efficiently as you or I would. Eating much more protein would slow down his digestion and slow down the assimilation rate of sugar from a deluge to long trickles to keep him from sugar highs and from being exhausted of sugar too quickly.

                                    Understanding where one is on his ability to metabolize sugar efficiently is needed to be able to allow one to manage his poor blood sugar control by tweaking the blending of macros. As getting one to have a stable and normal blood sugar is going to help one turn oneself from being metabolically unfit to becoming fit. One does not becoming metabolically fit overnight by forcing oneself to emulate metabolically fit people like Danny Roddy when one isn't. And that was Cirion's mistake and those who take the same road he did would end up none the better, nor wiser.

                                    Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
                                    engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
                                    wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
                                    the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter

                                    serotoninskepticS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • serotoninskepticS
                                      serotoninskeptic @yerrag
                                      last edited by

                                      @yerrag Yea this is another reason I think "peating" doesnt work for a lot of people. They will try to lose weiight assuming eating prometabolic means you can automatically eat more and burn more calories. The problen is most these people are metabolically unhealthy and wont fix their problem overnight by chugging sugar, juice, soda and milk. They end up gaining more weight

                                      yerragY 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • L
                                        LetTheRedeemed @josh
                                        last edited by LetTheRedeemed

                                        @josh If I remember correctly, t4 in the morning is generally a bad idea. If you are already following a protocol of t3 at breakfast, t3+t4 at lunch, and t3+t4 at dinner, and getting stress responses, it could simply be too much for right now.

                                        In case you didn't find it yet, this video of Danny's should give you all you need to know, short of a consultation:
                                        Youtube Video

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • yerragY
                                          yerrag @serotoninskeptic
                                          last edited by yerrag

                                          @Sugarnotsnow

                                          Yes, and they are lost. And their inability to transition from unhealthy to metabolically fit is a challenge. There is a way out of that, but unfortunately experts people look up to in the bioenergetic space offer no guidance. Danny Roddy and Ray Peat have always been normal and thin and metabolically fit, and dont have the benefit of experiencing the transition, haidut has always been on the overweight side and can't be a guide, and the people who offer guidance in the bioenergetic sphere are mostly armchair and theory.

                                          Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
                                          engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
                                          wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
                                          the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter

                                          serotoninskepticS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • serotoninskepticS
                                            serotoninskeptic @yerrag
                                            last edited by serotoninskeptic

                                            @yerrag Ray may have always been thin but that doesnt mean he was always metabolically healthy. He was hypothyroid for a good portion of his life and i believe so was danny after trying carnivore.

                                            yerragY 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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