Ideas for getting more CO2 into your everyday routine

josh

Thanks @LetTheRedeemed, i must admit i have dabbled with t3, i found it aggravated the adrenaline a bit, I think because I wasn’t quite ready for it.

It seems to be this careful balance with thyroid of not increasing it too fast so you don’t spook the adrenaline into action, but providing enough to support the slow transfer to genuine metabolic energy rather than stress hormones.

@LetTheRedeemed did you find the thyroid increased the stress response first before it subsided? Thanks again

Serotoninskeptic

@josh Eating lots of sugar during the day and saving protein for later in the day has improved my breathing and increased my co2 output

LetTheRedeemed

@Sugarnotsnow cool observation... I've found that restricting my meat consumption to generally one time of the day (try to hit late after noon as that's when thyroid is highest), gives me more energy and better sleep.

LetTheRedeemed

@josh for sure. There can often be other cofactors that need addressing before using thyroid. One big one is making sure cholesterol is adequately high, or any stimulant will be a stressor, rather than metabolic improver.
On top of that, other than the AM dose, t3 can often be too much and raise adrenaline. According to a symptom and bloodwork diagnosis, Danny helped me determine what ratio of t3/t4 I needed for lunch and dinner. T4 directly lowers adrenaline. Danny, Mike Fave, and Jay, are definitely the ones to go to for ironing out these details.

Serotoninskeptic

@LetTheRedeemed Yea avoiding those imflammatory amino acids in muscle meat like tryptophan inproves my energy and sleep as well

LetTheRedeemed

@Sugarnotsnow agreed, I consume quite a bit of gelatin with my protein meals, but I'm pointing out what you noticed, of not eating protein all times of the day, has helped me too!

Serotoninskeptic

@LetTheRedeemed Yes usually i eat no protein until 4:00 PM. Its been great for my temps and energy

LetTheRedeemed

@Sugarnotsnow that’s the same time for me as well

Serotoninskeptic

@LetTheRedeemed Nice, I think more people should try this approach. I think a lot of people have trouble with peating because they ignore macros and end up with a high carb, high fat, AND high protein diet. I think focusing on sugary carbs while keeping protein and fat moderate throughout the day would solve issues for some

josh

Thanks @LetTheRedeemed im an avid listener of danny, jay and mike and so will go back through especially dannys recommendations on thyroid. I didnt know t4 directly suppressed adrenaline, i was aware you had to be careful that t4 didnt induce a high parathyroid state induced by stress and liver over whelm. that was my initial reason taking t3 to balance t4. I still take t4, and can see from pulse that in the morning t4 conversion is blocked by stress hormones. The sooner i can lower my stress response in the day the sooner my pulse shoots up from i guess an almost backed up t4. I wonder if the reason t4 doesnt tend to work well for some one its own is their stress levels are just too high to convert, and they need the t3 to prime the system. Maybe when someone is suffering fatigue but their stress response is ok, they would be ok with high t4 and low t3 ratio. Anyway, i definitely found benefit adding adrenaline lowering substances with t4 to enable the body to convert.

To throw an added spanner into the mix ive been weening myself off ssri’s which i was given during my health crisis two years ago and i didnt know any better. Im down to 5mg from 50mg sertraline, but who knows what hormonal carnage thats been causing, and think is a contributor to my morning stress problem. At some point i want to try cyproheptadine to see what the other side of the coin feels like but steady does it!

Totally agree @Sugarnotsnow @LetTheRedeemed my body craves sugar in the morning so i dont hold back. I think its quenching the stress response and allowing superior metabolic function to resume. Protein and fat to early just gives the body more work to do.

Chud

List of things mentioned in this thread
increase co2:

acetazolamide
baking soda
bottle rebreather
milk jug rebreather
buteyko
blanket fort
bag breathing
higher elevation
co2 bath
carbogen
b1
mouth taping
air hunger

Personally i would add sparkling water / carbonated beverages.

thyroidchor27

@Chud

aspirin and progesterone, and from my experience iodine.

Serotoninskeptic

@Chud sugar

Ecstatic_Hamster

Some foods that you eat will lower your carbon dioxide levels.

Professor Buteyko used a control pause to determine how much carbon dioxide you're retaining in your body.

The control pause correlates well with a difficult test that can only be done in a hospital that measures carbon dioxide in arterial blood.

So I can tell with my control pause if foods are lowering my carbon dioxide levels.

Protein does lower it somewhat, but also foods that I don't tolerate well lower it quite a bit.

If you're not tolerant of a food, your control pause really drops, meaning your carbon dioxide levels drop when you consume that food.

Foods that are easiest on carbon dioxide levels or that support higher levels are anything with sugar and starch.

Protein generally burdens our carbon dioxide levels, and any food we don't tolerate well lowers carbon dioxide.

josh

@Ecstatic_Hamster yeah thats really interesting regarding the change in your control pause length based on different foods. So co2 levels in your body fluctuate quite rapidly, how long does it take to react after eating? And how long does it last.

I notice after 20mins in a co2 bath my stomach starts gurgling, i wonder is this the time it takes for the co2 to reach the cell and improve the oxygen exchange, therefore improving metabolism and lowering sympathetic activation.

It would be interesting to to understand the timing differences between:

eating co2 promoting foods
co2 baths
carbonated drinks
b1 and other supplements
carbonegen and paperbag

What one would be the fastest to the slowest? From this maybe you could help moderate your co2 over 24hrs. For instance, a supplement at bed with a co2 bath for a more longer lasting experience, and a carbonated drink in the morning to get your levels up quickly.

yerrag

@Sugarnotsnow said in Ideas for getting more CO2 into your everyday routine:

@LetTheRedeemed Nice, I think more people should try this approach. I think a lot of people have trouble with peating because they ignore macros and end up with a high carb, high fat, AND high protein diet. I think focusing on sugary carbs while keeping protein and fat moderate throughout the day would solve issues for some

I think blending macros to your context is going to help more.

If you ever recall member Cirion at RPF, who suddenly dropped out of the forum ( not banned, so he may have died or may have become so frustrated that he just ghosted himself) he was going extremely hi carb and low protein and fat (relative to carb) and he kept gaining weight and kept hoping for the moment things would turn around, and it never did.

He would be better serves had he lowered his carbs, and increased his protein and fats, as he wasn't metabolically fit enough to burn carbs efficiently as you or I would. Eating much more protein would slow down his digestion and slow down the assimilation rate of sugar from a deluge to long trickles to keep him from sugar highs and from being exhausted of sugar too quickly.

Understanding where one is on his ability to metabolize sugar efficiently is needed to be able to allow one to manage his poor blood sugar control by tweaking the blending of macros. As getting one to have a stable and normal blood sugar is going to help one turn oneself from being metabolically unfit to becoming fit. One does not becoming metabolically fit overnight by forcing oneself to emulate metabolically fit people like Danny Roddy when one isn't. And that was Cirion's mistake and those who take the same road he did would end up none the better, nor wiser.

Serotoninskeptic

@yerrag Yea this is another reason I think "peating" doesnt work for a lot of people. They will try to lose weiight assuming eating prometabolic means you can automatically eat more and burn more calories. The problen is most these people are metabolically unhealthy and wont fix their problem overnight by chugging sugar, juice, soda and milk. They end up gaining more weight

LetTheRedeemed

@josh If I remember correctly, t4 in the morning is generally a bad idea. If you are already following a protocol of t3 at breakfast, t3+t4 at lunch, and t3+t4 at dinner, and getting stress responses, it could simply be too much for right now.

In case you didn't find it yet, this video of Danny's should give you all you need to know, short of a consultation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIF3-A7lGGw&t=30s

yerrag

@Sugarnotsnow

Yes, and they are lost. And their inability to transition from unhealthy to metabolically fit is a challenge. There is a way out of that, but unfortunately experts people look up to in the bioenergetic space offer no guidance. Danny Roddy and Ray Peat have always been normal and thin and metabolically fit, and dont have the benefit of experiencing the transition, haidut has always been on the overweight side and can't be a guide, and the people who offer guidance in the bioenergetic sphere are mostly armchair and theory.

Serotoninskeptic

@yerrag Ray may have always been thin but that doesnt mean he was always metabolically healthy. He was hypothyroid for a good portion of his life and i believe so was danny after trying carnivore.