B complex
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Anyone take a b complex or have any good ones that they have noticed benefit from? In theory it seems like a good idea but like I’m not so sure it is. Just some anecdotes would be fine
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Hi
Too much of good thing is bad.
I take B-50 complex co-enzymed 2x/wk. Must be co-enzymed as 30 to 60 % people are totally or partly deficient in METHL gene (B9 B12).
Not 400 mg folic acid every day. Rather folate (B9).
Mind the kind of B3 (flush) if more than 20-25 mg. Niacinamide is OK.
Get informed on excipients. E.g. Polysorbate 80 (E433) is bad for inflamed bowels.
Here is a link with some interesting forms and others not (In French, translator needed)
Toxicité des excipients dans les compléments alimentaires
Contenu et excipients de la Vitamine B complexe : Analyse des produits USA :
http://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t845-dioxyde-de-titane#14314 -
I used to take lots of B vitamins.
I stopped taking a B-complex pill a while back, and switched to taking B vitamins as powders, to control the dosage.
But I still did not feel that it was helping, and the powders irritated my gut and hurt my sleep.
I finally went back to Haidut's perfect Energin product.
I now take 4 drops on my wrist each day, and feeling better each day. -
@Jakeandpace I take haidut's Energin. I take about 1 full dose per week. I split the full dose into halves, and take those two whenever I feel like it.
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@Jakeandpace
I like this one. I take one at lunch.
https://www.objectivenutrients.com/products/thiactive-b/ -
@Jakeandpace
I like this one. I take one at lunch.
https://www.objectivenutrients.com/products/thiactive-b/I won't take this one every day
50 mg benfotiamine + 20 mg TTHF = 70 mg B1
=> Not a good idea to be situated under 90 mg B1 when taking high dose B1. It stimulate cell growth.
So if not every day, it's OK.
*) The dichotomous effect of thiamine supplementation on cancer cell growth is characterized by growth stimulation at low doses and growth suppression at high doses. Unfortunately, how thiamine reduces cancer cell proliferation is currently unknown.
Source: National Institutes of Health (NIH)
High Dose Vitamin B1 Reduces Proliferation in Cancer Cell Lines Analogous to Dichloroacetate
doi: 10.1007/s00280-014-2386-z 2014. Cancer Chemother Pharmacol. -
@LucH
Thanks for the good feedback. I do intuitively skip this a few times a week now that you mention not taking everyday. I do like Haiduts recommendation that it’s better to supplement Bs when needed rather then just over doing them every day.
LucH, did you happen to look at there other B complex? The non methylated one? It is very similar but yet very different in nuanced ways. I tried a couple bottles of each and couldn’t really tell the difference so I settled on the methylated version. Thanks again! -
I tried a couple bottles of each and couldn’t really tell the difference so I settled on the methylated version.
B6
The active biological form is pyridoxale-5-phosphate (PLP).Good vitamin B complex preparations contain:
- the same quantity of vit B1, B2 and B6.
- at least 4 x more vit B3
- at least 2 x more vit B5
Source : Zoelho.com (in French) Pharma-Dr.
Note: Some people feels nervous when taking high dose of B6 Pyridoxine. Unbalanced nervous system. Feels better with Benfotiamine or Thiamine HCL than with TTFD (thiamin tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide). TTFD passes the BBB.
DA 2 – 3 mg B6. Orthomolecular pharmacology 10 – 50 mg.
B3. The form to privilege is niacinamide
Niacin different names
Niacin = generic name
Nicotinic acid = pyridine-3-carboxylic acid.
Nicotinamide = niacinamide or pyridine-3-carboxamide
Other derivatives: e.g. nicotinamide riboside
All tissues in the body convert absorbed niacin into its main metabolically active form, the coenzyme nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD). The liver methylates any remaining excess and evacuate it through urine. (1) All form on B3 in excess (> 35 mg) consumes methyl groups. (2) But methyl groups are useful elsewhere for muscular function, to synthesize choline, to prevent fatty liver, to control neurotransmitter, e.g. and so on. When losing to much methyl groups your feel in a bad mood, you lose your energy...
According to Lucenzo01, we need more glycine when taking high dose niacin (nicotinic acid). He said excess niacin is glycinated, excess niacinamide is methylated.What to remind, in short:
20-25 mg B3 is safe for most people. Take rather niacinamide if high dose to avoid a flush side-effect and because niacinamide could act as an antagonist to serotonin (if you don’t lack methyl-groups and specially glycine).
If taking high dose B3 niacinamide (250 / 300 mg), I’d take 2 x 500 mg TMG (tri-methyl glycine), but it’s not necessary if you take a B-50 2x/wk. Too much of a good thing is bad.
Keep in mind: You’re artificially changing the system by adding extra dose of something, without taking into account the possible side-effects. But if you can listen to your body, why not if you want to experiment …*) Pay Attention to excipients
Sources and References
- Niacin forms
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Niacin-HealthProfessional/ - Video Chris Masterjohn – 12’
https://youtu.be/P5UMfCW_23w - Tranquilizing and anti-serotonin activity of nicotinamide
DOI: 10.1126/science.128.3334.1277 - Excess B3 in the absence of methyl groups
Excess nicotinamide increases plasma serotonin and histamine levels
PMID: 23426511 2013. Sheng Li Xue Bao
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@LucH very cool. Thanks you for your time and thoughts in the b1 b2 b6 balance. Had not heard that before.
Do you think high Biotin is going to through things out of whack? Sometimes I take 5mg b7 in case I have some mitochondria not working properly. ( I definitely have some damaged Mito’s!)
Peace! -
@Jakeandpace this is excellent
activated b1, not an analogue
https://www.metabolics.com/products/vitamin-b1-thiamine-pyrophosphate
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No. I've heard people say B12 or B6, or B complex can really help, and this was years ago, but I've never taken vitamins or B complex.
Is allithiamine in garlic not the same thing as thiamine? I eat lots of garlic but not sure if the B vitamins are very high in it.
I want to get vitamins only through food. It appears to me that most manufactured vitamins and supplements are tainted or poor quality. I understand there are arguments for trying to boost these vitamins temporarily. I'm also thinking I could be deficient in B vitamins because I don't eat as much fruit / citrus as I could. -
Sometimes I take 5mg b7 in case I have some mitochondria not working properly.
B7 High dose biotin side effects (B8 in France)
Biotin may improve symptoms of peripheral neuropathy and help people with diabetes gain control of their blood sugar. While the use of biotin is generally safe, the vitamin may interfere with some lab tests and medications, so you should tell your healthcare provider if you plan to use it.
RDA 30 mcg
No health side effects are supposed to happen up to 10 mg but some people will encounter allergic reactions to biotin supplements, like nausea, rashes, swelling or dizziness when taking high dose on a daily use.Helping mitochondria
The main endogenous factor in mitochondrial biogenesis is CO2, so it immediately becomes clear why low metabolism = aging, as low metabolism = low CO2 and high lactate.
There are many molecules that could help:
Taurine (1/4 tsp 2x/d) and theanine (+/ 200 mg)
Glycine (10 gr)
Vitamin K (1 mg)
Progesterone / pregnenolone / low dose DHEA
Saturated fatty acid, especially palmitic acid. To counteract PUFA.
Fructose, if balanced with glucose but mind excess. Target 25 – 50 g of each (from fruits, so with fiber)
Methylene blue (USP-grade): 1 mg every 5 days (Haidut) to achieve optimal concentration.
Tea with beta-lapachone (Pau d’Arco) or green tea (EGCG) 2 or 3x/wk. (antioxidant)
Aspirin
Always take vitamin K2 MK4 when you take aspirin, as Dr. Peat recommends one mg K2 per full size adult aspirin, at least.
A lot of benefit has been shown with 86 to 325mg per day. That is one "baby" or "adult" aspirin. Most studies use one or the other. But side effects can cause problems for people when the mucous layer of the stomach is thin. Need glutamine, taurine and glycine to restore it.- Glutamine: material for mucosal walls.
- Taurine: antioxidant
- Glycine: to moderate side-effects (excito-toxicity of glutamate).
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No. I've heard people say B12 or B6, or B complex can really help, and this was years ago, but I've never taken vitamins or B complex.
Is allithiamine in garlic not the same thing as thiamine? I eat lots of garlic but not sure if the B vitamins are very high in it.
I want to get vitamins only through food. It appears to me that most manufactured vitamins and supplements are tainted or poor quality. I understand there are arguments for trying to boost these vitamins temporarily. I'm also thinking I could be deficient in B vitamins because I don't eat as much fruit / citrus as I could.Yea allthiamine is the fat soluble version of thiamine
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Do you think high Biotin is going to through things out of whack? Sometimes I take 5mg b7 in case I have some mitochondria not working properly. ( I definitely have some damaged Mito’s!)
Peace!I think biotin can cause problems if you’re not careful. Always be paying attention to your bodies reaction
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Does this mean fried in butter or eaten with a good saturated fat is ideal for getting the B vitamins?
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If you’re talking about garlic possibly yes it might help with absorption of B1.