Thymus health

DavidPS

@Mauritio - Another interesting topic. Magnesium may also be needed to keep the thymus healthy.
Accelerated thymus involution in magnesium-deficient rats is related to enhanced apoptosis and sensitivity to oxidative stress

Mauritio

@DavidPS makes sense since it's so anti cortisol .

Mauritio

COVID destroys the thymus gland. The thymus expresses ACE2 which facilitates viral entry, so ACE2 inhibitors might help here.

Also interesting that disease severity correlated with thymus atrophy.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36758836/

yerrag

@Mauritio said in Thymus health:

COVID destroys the thymus gland. The thymus expresses ACE2 which facilitates viral entry, so ACE2 inhibitors might help here.

Also interesting that disease severity correlated with thymus atrophy.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36758836/

Could it be that very often the first line of treatment in respiratory distress involves the use of Budenoside, or cortisol, in respiratory therapy? And cortisol weakens the immune system by reducing the size of the thymus gland?

cs3000

@Mauritio

Also interesting that disease severity correlated with thymus atrophy.

yeah , first thought might think the lowered immune cells from their atrophied thymus would create less damage & be beneficial. but neutrophils can rise to an extreme to do that which come from bone marrow and lack of T-Reg cells coming from the thymus might worsen that

(might be why you see elevated neutrophil:lymphocyte ratio in health problems https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2999808/ atrophied thymus? which intuitively isnt the place you'd look to to help an autoimmune problem https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2302892 When patients with a preoperative history of autoimmune disease (e.g., myasthenia gravis) were excluded, the number of postoperative autoimmune diseases per patient was still higher in the thymectomy group than in the control group (1.7 vs. 1.2

Looks like the main benefit of the Thymus could actually be from suppressing too much immune damage via t reg cells
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/immunology/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2024.1339714/full
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33537838/

The pathologies of several autoimmune conditions, such as type 1 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, systemic lupus erythematosus and myasthenia gravis (MG) are based on dysfunctional Tregs
{t cells have to dysfunctionally clone peripherally if not coming from thymus?}
The removal of the thymus (i.e. thymectomy) in mice at the age of 3 weeks was shown to lead to the development of autoimmunity (180)
.

another one, 6% protein calories vs 20%
4 calories in 1 gram of protein
at 2500 calories human equiv ~35grams daily gave a way smaller thymus vs 125grams protein daily with extra carbs replacing the lost protein,

87% lower thymus weight from 35g protein daily

The wet weight (g) of the thymus and mesenteric lymph nodes decreased due to protein malnutrition by 87% (from 0.30 ± 0.05 to 0.04 ± 0.01) and 75%
(0.40 ± 0.04 to 0.10 ± 0.02), respectively
Effect of protein malnutrition on the glycolytic and glutaminolytic enzyme activity of rat thymus and mesenteric lymph nodes

doesn't mean the higher intake is needed tho, maybe stable point for protein intake is ~ double that low end

In the absence of thymic control, the B cells are still able to produce antibodies, but they are more likely to produce autoantibodies.
The thymus was noted to be "a barometer of malnutrition, and a very sensitive one" (2). The size and weight of the thymus are reduced.

looking into Koch's info on immunity without needing immune cells so much http://www.williamfkoch.com/

Mauritio

@yerrag yeah right and didn't they give cortisone to calm the cytokine storm for COVID ?

Mauritio

@cs3000 said in Thymus health:

Looks like the main benefit of the Thymus could actually be from suppressing too much immune damage via t reg cells

That is such an interesting thought. Why wouldnt we have an organ whos purpose it is to dampen excessive inflammation, given chronic inflammation is a part of so many diseases.

yerrag

@cs3000 said in Thymus health:

might be why you see elevated neutrophil:lymphocyte ratio in health problems

I always have high neutrophil:lymphocyte ratio 70:20 but have very good immunity, being very resistant to respiratory diseases such as the flu (and COVID) but maybe this keeps my acquired immune system from being overactive;

but my chronic low grade infection and my having heavy metal toxicity disposes my phagocytic cells (neutrophils and macrophages) to be overactive, and my immune system always being on an alert state helps keep my immune system primed;

but this seem to have a downside as an underactive acquired immune system seems to make me develop more cysts and keloids where the inability of my lymphocytes to kill certain microbes makes the body develop fibrous walls to isolate and wrap these microbes and form cysts, but these cysts are benign though

yerrag

@Mauritio said in Thymus health:

@yerrag yeah right and didn't they give cortisone to calm the cytokine storm for COVID ?

was it to calm the cytokine storm as a way to dampen Inflammation? I just know cortisone is used as an anti-inflammatory but don't know the mechanism.

Mauritio

@yerrag not sure.