What do you guys think about Linus Pauling and Vitamin C?

Ray Peat Fanboy

Is anyone a fan of Linus Pauling and Vitamin C?

LucH

Hi,
I won't say so. Useful explanations as an encyclopedia could be.
Put some point in excerpt if you want to debate (and give a link if possible) ...

Ray Peat Fanboy

@LucH I'm not good at formulating sentences. So i'm afraid that low effort posts is all I can do for the most part.

But I was thinking about taking high dose vitamin C for anti stress purposes.

Vitamin C supplementation alleviates hypercortisolemia caused by chronic stress

Here is a study that vitamin C supplementation was therapeutic for hypercortisolemia caused by chronic stress (lowered cortisol)

I'm also intrested in taking vitamin C because Linus Pauling said its protective against cardiovascular disease.

Ecstatic_Hamster

I don't take C routinely and I never really felt any benefit even with "heroic" doses that cause diarrhea. I do take it when I take aspirin, a few grams.

LucH

@Ray-Peat-Fanboy said in What do you guys think about Linus Pauling and Vitamin C?:

I was thinking about taking high dose vitamin C for anti stress purposes.

Well, looking at the study, the main points are:

1 g AA/day.
Less cortisol secreted.
No explanation.

We know AA (ascorbic acid) has antioxidant effects and other positive side-effects on inflammation pathways.
Remind that AA must be from guaranteed source (no heavy metals). If you don’t want rubbish one (not effective), N° CAS 50-81-7 and / or optical rotation 20.5-21.5 °.
Split the dose 1 g in 3x (half-life).
So, yes AA plays a role on stress. But you could do the same with L-theanine and collagen (glycine has gaba-like effects). + a technic to lower tension like EFT, deep breath and walking.
And if you really want to protect the heart, it’s rather in the direction of arteries you should look at. Protect membranes vessels with liposoluble vitamins, especially Vit K2.
Useful info (in French, translator needed):
Vitamine E et peroxydation des membranes
https://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t642-vitamine-e-et-peroxydation-des-membranes#5648
Interaction entre les vitamines A D K
Calcium regulation and thyroid inquiry
https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/2275/calcium-regulation-and-thyroid-inquiry

Ray Peat Fanboy

@LucH

Thank you!

I take Progest-E and drink 2 quarts of milk a day. I also eat a high carb diet.

Should I buy Thornes Vitamin K? And what brand do you recommend for a vitamin E supplement?

LucH

@Ray-Peat-Fanboy said in What do you guys think about Linus Pauling and Vitamin C?:

Should I buy Thornes Vitamin K? And what brand do you recommend for a vitamin E supplement?

For vit E, 20-25 mg is required, but 100 mg after 40ies. Must be at least 2 tocos.
I take 2x/wk 400 UI. Mind this: too much of a good thing is bad.
Now foods - Advanced gamma E complex 120 caps.

For Vit K:

once a Wk Life Extension super K (all forms of vit K, high dose)
1 drop Thornes Vitamin K2 MK4 (1 000 mcg) every day. Must be taken with high dose fat. 35 g optimal.
Avoid if under 24 g fat. Postpose.
At midday, I take 5000 UI vit D (from November till April) (winter time).
For details about posology , how and why, I can give a link if desired.

Ray Peat Fanboy

@LucH

I read on the ingredients of NOW Foods Advanced Gamma E complex that this vitamin E supplement contains rice bran oil (a high PUFA oil)

"Other Ingredients: Softgel Capsule [bovine gelatin (BSE-free), glycerin, water, carob] and Rice Bran Oil. Contains soy."

Ray Peat Fanboy

@Ecstatic_Hamster

Intresting! Whats the reason for combining vitamin C with aspirin? Do they have a synergistic effect?

ThinPicking

The systemic mega dosing didn't work out for me. His obsession with it probably needed more work on competition with glucose and surrounding fluid movements (salt probably has a lot to do with it too). There's probably a perfect dose and delivery in there somewhere for miraculous effect. The 'bowel tolerance' or more is better strategy couldn't cure a cold in my experience.

Other work of his institute on micronutrients and phyto's is really useful. A great resource. Also the details on pH/concentration for topical absorbtion of AA can do miraculous things for skin problems.

LucH

@Ray-Peat-Fanboy said in What do you guys think about Linus Pauling and Vitamin C?:

this vitamin E supplement contains rice bran oil (a high PUFA oil)

Are you kidding?!
Only the dose makes a poison.
https://afcd.foodstandards.gov.au/fooddetails.aspx?PFKID=F006185

34.7 % PUFA / 100 (1 ml)) / 20 (20 drops) = 0.0174 mg.
=> not even 1 tenth of a milligram.
Less than 2 hundredths of one mg.

the_black_jew

if i ever have the beginnings of a sore throat, 750mg of vit c in OJ knocks it out
maybe the OJ by itself would work idk

Sunniva

@LucH

At midday, I take 5000 UI vit D (from November till April) (winter time).

What vitamin D do you use?

Ray Peat Fanboy

@LucH

Oh if the dose of PUFA is that low then its fine

LucH

@Sunniva said in What do you guys think about Linus Pauling and Vitamin C?:

What vitamin D do you use?

Now foods softgels.
,+ Once a week 10 000 ui vit A (retinyl palmitate).

Sunniva

@LucH
Thank you.
In regards to Vit A, if I am drinking about 40 ounces of raw milk daily would the supplemental A be necessary?

LucH

@Sunniva said in What do you guys think about Linus Pauling and Vitamin C?:

In regards to Vit A, if I am drinking about 40 ounces of raw milk daily would the supplemental A be necessary?

You'll get 42 % of the RDA. If you don't suffer from irritable bowel, don't smoke, don't drink wine or bear twice a day,, don't suffer too often from influenza or get a cold, it could be OK (half-life).
More details below (see & Measures)

Retinol in raw milk
The amount of retinol (vitamin A) depends primarily on the fat content of the milk. Indeed, the consensus is that higher fat content in milk results in more cream, with estimates ranging from about 100ml to 150ml for whole or full-cream milk.
Whole milk is something like 3.5 to 4% fat. Assuming that all that rises to the top as cream, you'll get 4% of the total volume as cream. So about 40mL per liter of milk. In reality it'll probably be a bit less than that though.
One quart of Whole Raw Milk provides you with 375 mcg of vitamin A, or 42% of the daily recommended value. RDA is 900 mcg Vit A (retinol) or +/ 3000 IU. (3.33 factor).

Source:
Variation in retinol and carotenoid content of milk and milk products in The Netherlands. Journal of Food Composition and Analysis 19 (2006) 67–75.
https://www.robertorubino.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/2006-retinol-and-carotenoid-content-of-milk-and-milk-products.pdf
Abstract
Retinol and carotenoids were measured in Dutch milk and dairy products using a validated approach based on complete extraction of fat, followed by mild saponification and analysis by high-performance liquid chromatography. Raw milk, full fat milk, semi-skimmed milk and butter contain about 10 mg retinol and 6 g carotenoids per g fat. Values for retinol equivalents in milk are 10–20% higher than the values published in the Dutch food composition table. b-Carotene comprises 90% of total carotenoids present in cow’s milk, contrary to values published for human milk, which show more equally distributed carotenoids. Winter milk contains 20% less retinol and b-carotene compared to summer milk. Retention of retinol and b-carotene per g fat in hard cheese is one third to one half relative to the corresponding raw milk. In liquid and semi-liquid dairy products (pasteurized milk, buttermilk, vanilla custard, and yoghurt) retention of both compounds is above 80%. Recovery of carotenoids using the validated method is better than that reported by others previously.

Measures:
1 quart US = 946,353 liter
40 ounces = 1182.94 ml (1 oz. = 29,574 ml)
=> +/ 375 mcg retinol (vitamin A) = 42 % RDA
RDA = 900 mcg = 2997 IU

NB1: The conversion factor for vitamin A (retinol): 3.33 IU per mcg
NB2: I take 10 000 UI once a week (3 003 mcg). The upper limit in once dose.
NB3: The conversion factor for b-caroten to the active form Vit A is said to vary from 2 to 12 % depending on the fat amount of the meal. However, if you lack active vitamin A, the conversion rate will be optimized by the intestinal mucosa (not the liver).
So, if you don’t eat some chicken liver once a week, or don’t take any supplement, 6 g carotenoids could give a 50 % conversion into retinol. But only in an optimal situation. Not very often like that.
I won’t hope it like that.

For other readers (see the link too)
Alpha-Carotene, beta-carotene and beta-cryptoxanthin can be converted to Vitamin A in the intestine and liver [5]. Vitamin A is essential for the immune response and is also involved in other defences against infectious agents. Nevertheless, in many individuals, this conversion is slow and ineffectual, particularly as you get older. In a recent study, increases in blood beta-carotene levels did not result in a corresponding increase in blood Vitamin A levels [13],[14].
Approximately 80-90% of the carotenoids present in green, leafy vegetables such as broccoli, kale, spinach and Brussel sprouts are xanthophylls, whereas 10-20% are carotenes. Conversely, yellow and orange vegetables including carrots, sweet potatoes and squash contain predominantly carotenes [8].
NB1: Any poor metabolism of the liver or drug supplement or alcohol taken will dampen conversion of b-caroten (pro-vitamin A) to retinol (active vitamin A). (Active vitamin A = retinyl palmitate or acetate as a supplement).
Source: The Nutrition of Beta-Carotene
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/food/carotenes.html