Any experiences with DHT?
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Dbol + DHTE makes my mouth water
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@jamezb46 would probably be quite euphoric
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Female track athletes in East Germany given turinabol are reported to have developed an “addiction” to masturbation. Doesn’t that sounds like fun
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@jamezb46 mein fräuleins
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continued improvements in athletics, a nearly profound recovery from previously somewhat chronic low-grade and annoying issues, and muscle fullness and a subtle recomp of the physique through a combination of fat and water loss.
Today I had a really spontaneous correction of jogging and running posture that started from my feet, which got springy and bouncy.
Noticeable change in voice sometimes shortly after application.
Good libido is translating to a lust for life.
I might switch to oral dosing dissolved in tocopherols for a more systemic effect. Right now I’m still applying transdermally, 8-12 mg a day.I saw georgi and another user here say 25mg per day is probably not suppressive and georgi says in a post in 2016, that might be the ideal dose iirc.
fwiw 70mg transdermal lowered T after a couple years daily dosing in a study
i may do oral dosing 5mg 3x a day and add some progesterone
have been considering halo or dianabol but maybe we dont even have to use those drugs for top tier physique and athletics.
apparently halo can be doses without noticeable toxicity but it has a fluorine part which haidut says is toxic
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I've triend DHT transdermal in different formulations, made by myself and also the one from pannacottas. I never felt much at different doses, including no obvious negatives, maybe just a bit more unshakeable by events. Also made a vitE oral/bucccal version, that one gave me a very slight calm euphoric feeling. This formula was hard to dose in higher range so never tried more than 10mg iirc.
I wonder not really feeling the transdermal dht is because of the enzymes in the skin converting dht to 3a-diol, which is a much lesser potent androgen but does have more gabaergic effects.
Testosterone I do feel in the same transdermal formulations. Testosterone also very clearly makes me less tired during and after all kinds of excercise. Maybe because I end up, paradoxically, with more dht because of 5a-reductase in the skin.
DrostanoloneP/E injections I also do feel but nothing amazing like some claim. Just a more steady, calm demeanor and slightly improved energy and nice body recomp without significant mass gain. It is something I might plan to keep doing low dose, like 30mg eod.
Proviron seems to do nothing acutely but over time it does seem to have a slight anabolic/recomp effect, also makes loads more concentrated/thicker.
Would love to try IM DHTE/P but can't find a source and dont want to bother to homebrew because of my limited chem knowledge and equipment.
Safest and most effective way to boost DHT, to me, seems transdermal T, maybe with very low dose exemestane on hand. -
At what doses of Proviron did you notice the slight anabolic/recomp effect?
Also, making DHTE or DHTP from base DHT is not "homebrewing" in the usual sense, that's organic chemistry synthesis.
It's not easy, and in order to convince yourself and anyone else for that matter that the final product did not contain the toxic solvents and catalysts you would have to use, you would need to do further analytic chemistry to confirm purity, which would likely involve LC/MS, or exact boiling point analysis, or some other advanced and highly expensive method.
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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With regard to the toxicity of the fluorine atom in Halotestin, I think the relevant question is: does the fluorine atom ever become unbound to the steroid molecule in the metabolism of Halotestin? If the answer is no, then I can't see how it could be "toxic" if fluorine is only toxic when it's in its ionic form.
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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@jamezb46 It's a common trend that drugs (all types) become more effective but also more toxic when a fluorine atom is added to the molecule. Not sure why.
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@jamezb46 HPLC testing can be done for less than $100 a test. You could identify the purity of the DHT ester, presence of heavy metals and maybe even the presence of other reactants used in the synthesis for as little as $300 I would say. Would that not suffice?
https://janoshik.com/pricing/
Janoshik performs identification assays of common AAS and heavy metals for as little as $60. I am sure other traces of other reagants could be organised as well. -
Fluorine is the most electronegative atom in the universe. So, the effect is probably because the fluorine atom makes the molecule metabolism resistant.
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If someone wants to go full Walter White mode and attempt to add an ester, I'm all for it, but it requires a fume hood, solvents that are potentially hard to get, and some apparatus to purify the compounds at the various stages of the synthesis.
Unless someone is already involved in synthesizing drugs at home or has access to a lab, I wouldn't say this is exactly a walk in the park.
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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@jamezb46 Yes, and someone who has a lab or synthesises drugs at home will probably be synthesising esterified DHT as a business - and unless he wants to synthesise DHT on his own, he will have to import bricks of DHT every month through customs... which is impossible given it's current supply and how easy it is to get caught.
The only way DHT enanthate is becoming available to the public is if someone on this "esterified DHT hype train" is rich enough to get a Chinese company to manufacture it for him, clever enough to ensure it is a pure product and to know how to homebrew it into oil vials, and stupid enough to sell steroids (very illegal)
or if the UGL labs (the main clients to the chinese steroid labs) want to start selling it - but the UGL labs aren't rich enough either - they simply heat up oils and benzyl benzoate in a beaker and throw steroids into it, and then sell it amongst 100s of other labs that sell the exact same product at the same prices. They don't exactly try to make advancements in the steroid industry or change the game. -
@alfredoolivas Right, your realism about the matter is in the same spirit as my original post was in.
I also am not fully convinced that DHTE or DHTP is even necessary given that drostanolone, proviron, and transdermal testosterone all exist.
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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Subcutaneous DHT administration can provide a sustained release of unmetabolized DHT into the bloodstream over several days, offering similar benefits to esterified DHT
However, the big issue with delivering unesterified steroid subcutaneously or intramuscularly, is that they are very insoluble - typically a mix of benzyl benzoate or propylene glycol with water or oil is what the unesterified steroids are dissolved in.
The issue is that 1.) they tend to be dissolved at extremely low concentrations - 50mg per ml (I think) - 2.) they use high amounts of benzyl benzoate and propylene glycol (up to 50% v/v I think) which are toxic. This means that to administer a considerable amount of unesterifed steroid, you will need to administer a lot of toxic solvents with it. However, this isn't even the biggest issue - these unesterified steroid solutions are INFAMOUS for crashing / the unesterfied steroids precipitate out of the solution. When you inject this precipitated solution, it cannot get absorbed into the blood stream, and as a result, a cyst and swelling occurs in the injection site - it is extremely painful and if this happens during an IM injection, it causes your muscles to not work properly- if you do an injection in your quad and this happens? You can lose the ability to walk for a few days (talking from personal expereince).
However; there may be a solution - tocopherol is an excelent solvent for unesterfied steroids - I have made stable 30% progesterone solutions in tocopherol, whereas a 5% progesterone solution in benzyl benzoate wasn't stable. Therefore, the use of tocopherol in place of benzl benzoate or propylene glycol, could fix all of the issues I described above. That being said, tocopherol is very viscous - I am afraid that injecting tocopherol inside oneself, could create a depot of oil that will take too long to get absorbed - potentially forming a cyst around the injection depot. A possible solution to this, would be combining a very small amount of tocopherol with a large amount of oil that has a very low viscocity such as MCT oil - it would make a solution with a safe viscocity, that can still dissolve steroids - for example; one could have a 10% mixed tocopherol and 90% MCT oil solution - you could make maybe 2% of the solution DHT (20mg per 1ml)
If you get the viscocity issue correct, subcutaneous DHT dissolved in tocopherols and MCT, should safely deliver constant umetabolised DHT into your bloodstream for a few days. This is a cheap experiment I may plan to do over the summer.
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@jamezb46 at the low 25mg ed dose, it was in combination with 50-100mg preg ed and it took about 2 months to start seeing effect but it felt good to not have a rushed progress, felt natural.
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@alfredoolivas literally what is the point of injecting a hormone dissolved in tocopherol when oral ingestion is almost the same BA and pharmacokinetics as injections
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@sushi_is_cringe Oral administration of steroids massively reduces the half-life of steroids + their bioavailability + increases the metabolism of the steroid, so you will get less unmetabolized steroid per dose (which can be a good and bad thing - bad in this case).
Testosterone undecanoate when injected has a half-life of a month - when orally injested? The half-life is a few hours.
The bioavailability of these oral steroids is significantly reduced as well - and even when the bioavailability of oral testosterone undecanoate in combination with a fatty meal is made 120%, the half life is still a few hours!
The low bioavailability and rapid metabolism of oral hormones explain why a weekly dose of 3500 mg of testosterone undecanoate dissolved in vitamin E could be administered to patients for the treatment of Nonalcoholic Steatohepatitis without causing side effects or muscle growth. In contrast, administering this amount via injections would lead to accumulation, eventually resulting in 22 grams of testosterone undecanoate in the body at some point.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT04134091Due to testosterone's protective effect on the liver, a clinical study was done using daily administrations of 500mg (3500mg a week) of oral testosterone undecanoate dissolved in your favourite solvent - vitamin E. Testosterone undecanoate has a half life of a month when injected - if testsosterone undecanoate's half life orally was the same as it's intramuscular half life, the testosterone undecanoate would build up to the point where there would be 22 grams of testosterone undecanoate in your blood stream.
If you had 22 grams of testosterone undecanoate in your bloodstream you would suffer extreme side effects, and look like the hulk?
Well none of that happened, because testosterone undeconate and oral steroids in general, have awful bioavailability and half life as discussed before:
Daily administration of 500mg of oral testosterone undecanoate dissolved in vitamin E was able to grow muscle mass by..... 1.9% to 2.75%
And only 10% of these patients adminstered these crazy doses of test undecanoate had side effects
There was also a fall in triglycerides and total cholesterol on average.
TLDR: As shown by a pharmacokinetics study, oral administration of testosterone and testosterone undecanoate, can bring their half lifes to a matter of hours, and give them low bioavailability. This is why patients with Nonalcoholic Steatohepatitis can take 500mg of testosterone undecanoate a day (dissolved in vitamin E) and gain no muscle and have no side effects - the latter is extremely surprising given how in bad health they are.
