How to buy the right red-light device

LucH

@oliveoil said in How to buy the right red-light device:

What are some of the specs that you gotta look for when buying a red light device?

Which wavelength?
*) Going by the studies on wavelength effectiveness (T. Karu et al.) (1), our cells absorb and use 4 "peaks" of light better than the others: 620 nm, 670 nm, 760 nm and 830 nm, +/- 15 nm. Those are the wavelengths you should try to get.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16144476
Reference: https://theskincareedit.com/2018/05/18/red-light-therapy-at-home
*) 830-840nm is for deep therapy (like pancreas and thyroid gland)
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/red-light-therapy-lllt-cures-hypothyroid.6815/
650 is for surface skin problems
=> Wavelength 670nm is the nearest.
*) Useful info
Between 0.1J/cm² to 6J/cm² is optimal for most tissues.
What dose should I aim for?
Most review articles and educational material tends to claim a dose in the range of 0.1J/cm² to 6J/cm² is optimal for cells, with less doing nothing and much more cancelling out the benefits a (too long time brings Nitric Oxide).
Distance of the light source is crucially important here, as it determines the light power density hitting the skin. For example, using the Red Light Device at 25cm instead of 10cm would increase the application time required but cover a larger area of skin. There’s nothing wrong with using it from further away, just be sure to compensate by increasing application time.
*) Way to calculate
Summary for formula: Dose = Power Density x Time in sec. x 0.001

Between 0.1J/cm² to 6J/cm² is optimal for most tissues.

Let’s take an example:
Suppose the power density between 50 and 100 W/cm2
Let’s say 85 W/cm2 at 15 cm distance.
=> Power Density x Time = Dose
+/ 85 W/cm2 x 100 Sec. = 8500 x 0.001 = 8.5 J/cm2 => Too high.
85 W/cm2 x 60 Sec. = 5100 x 0.001 = 5.1 J/cm2 => OK.
=> Between +/ 60 and 90’’ at 15 cm.
*) Abbreviations
 Power Density (irradiance) in mW/cm² (milliwatts per centimeter squared)
 Time in s (seconds)
 Dose in J/cm² (Joules per centimeter squared)
*) My choice: Red Light man (RLM)
For Red/IR Combo Mini: 620 - 670 - 760 - 830 nm wavelength.
NB: Between 20 and 200 W/cm2 according to the distance, for RLM.
200 W/cm2 at 5 cm distance
100 W/cm2 at 10 cm distance
50 W/cm2 at 30 cm distance
25 W/cm2 at 55 cm distance
10 W/cm2 at 90 cm distance
*) Another example

Let’s suppose the power 50 W/cm2 at 30 cm distance. Which time?
50 W/cm2 x 120 sec. = 6000 x 0.001 = 6 J/cm2 => OK
50 W/cm2 x 60 sec. = 3000 x 0.001 = 3 J/cm2 => OK
NB: Remember: between 0.1J/cm² to 6J/cm² is optimal for most tissues. The distance impacts the radiance (the extent of the irradiated surface).
Conclusion: 60 to 120 seconds at 30 cm distance. No longer.

Luke

@the_black_jew said in How to buy the right red-light device:

redlightman

sometimes it's good to research and deep dive and find the right vendor for yourself
sometimes one already is in business and you can save yourself the effort
redlightman even accepts crypto

I bought a device from redlightman. It's expensive, but I bought it almost exactly seven years ago to the day (just before Christmas 2017) and there are still no signs of wear and tear. So if I take the price in relation to the service life or the number of applications, we are talking about a minimal price.

I also bought some of the cheap heat lamp you can get at amazon years/decades ago. Don't even really know what they are, but I think it's just a heat lamp with a red-colored bulb. I had positive effects with these heat lamps regarding acne when I was in my early twenties. The warmth also feels pleasant. The durability wasn't as good, though. So the low price is relative.

The device from rlm is way more intense. I noticed this when I used it like the heat lamps, 15 minutes at a time or even longer. At times I felt a little shaky afterwards, almost like low blood-sugar and lowered energy. I realized that using a strong device like that is almost like a form of exercise. You have to ensure that you have enough fuel in the system and that you don't overdo it. Just like with exercise, sauna etc. When I pay attention to this, I can definitely see positive outcomes (better skin quality, more energy, better metabolism).

CO3

@the_black_jew IDK who you are but I can guess your politics are basically non-existent. You will say maybe on certain days "I'm a fascist" but even that has very little connection to your real beliefs or orientations, and absolutely nothing to do with your (lack of) reading. It's simply not something you have looked into, Go buy your 2000 dollar LEDs retard, you're the perfect audience for these scams.

the_black_jew

@CO3 xDDDD

LucH

Has someone bought a telescopic or foldable leg (support) when you don't want to lie under the bulb on the ground? On amazon, preferable, for export.
I have the red light man bulb with a wired extension. Thanks.

heyman

I use the regular incandescent 250w light bulbs but im interested in buying a dedicated red light. Anyone has any recommendations? I've heard of redlightman, helios and emr-tek.

Luke

@heyman
I can recommend redlightman. My device is almost 8 years old now and there are no visible signs of wear and tear. It's expensive when you look at the total price, but when I factor in usage, I'm probably at around $0.10 per application by now.

This is the device I bought, with a combination of four wavelengths:
https://redlightman.com/product/red-infrared-combo-light/

Although the device looks different now, the bulb is way bigger. So I can't guarantee that it's still high quality, but I give redlightman the benefit of the doubt.

heyman

@Luke What do you think of this bad boy?

https://redlightman.com/product/combo-padlight/

sunsunsun

@Luke pretty sure thats the one I have too and it's awesome, I've dropped it a bunch of times and it is fine.

heyman

@sunsunsun What improvements do you notice about it?

sunsunsun

@heyman I use it sometimes for muscle soreness , other inflammations etc and it knocks it out fast

in winter shining it on neck / thyroid for 3-5 min is decent replacement for daily intense sunlight

sometimes when working at desk I prop it on desk to the side so it indirectly shines in eyes, seem like it is good for eye strain prevention

at halloween it makes nice creepy light

heyman

@sunsunsun What difference is it from an incandescent 250w bulb?

sunsunsun

@heyman it’s red

DavidPS

@heyman said in How to buy the right red-light device:

@sunsunsun What difference is it from an incandescent 250w bulb?

Sunlight contains red light and a whole lot more.

The sunlight spectrum extends far into the infrared range and it is the infrared portion of the spectrum that produces heat. Incandescent light also contains portions of the infrared spectrum but it has much less blue light.

As far as I know, all LEDs contain a large amount of blue. The people who sell red LEDs cleverly neglect to show you the blue portion of the spectrum so you are left in the dark about the amount blue they emit.

Dr. Peat liked incandescent light. He liked the spectrum produced from running 130 volt incandescent bulbs in a 120 volt system. That is what influenced me to purchase this pool light in 2016. It is still buring brightly today.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004DJ5TMS?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_8

DavidPS

@DavidPS said in How to buy the right red-light device:

Dr. Peat liked incandescent light. He liked the spectrum produced from running 130 volt incandescent bulbs in a 120 volt system. That is what influenced me to purchase this pool light in 2016. It is still buring brightly today.

I was not certain if the 130v bulb would be throwing off enough heat to melt a plastic socket. So I got a unit similar to this one with a ceramic socket.

BAYCO SL-302B3 10-1/2-Inch Clamp Light
Porcelain Ceramic Socket

heyman

@DavidPS Interesting, don't think 130 volt would work here in europe though.

When I asked ray about light he always recommended the incandescent lights. Don't know if it was his thing with keeping it low cost (keep it real yo) or disdain towards led lights. When I asked red light man he said incandescent light bulbs are very inefficient, producing mostly heat.

CrumblingCookie

@heyman said in How to buy the right red-light device:

Interesting, don't think 130 volt would work here in europe though.

I'm guessing they mean 130W bulbs. As in watts, not in voltage. The stronger incandescent bulbs have a nicer spectrum closer to daylight in comparison to the low wattage ones which tend to be very yellowish and lacking contrast. The picture above looks more like sunlight spectrum through window glass and not quite right for an incandescent spectrum as there would be much more "wasted" energy in the IR part beyond 800nm. Which makes incandescent uncomfortable at close range unless it's very evenly spread as it comprises the peak frequencies for heating up tissue water. Maybe the graph's curve is a due to a restricted spectrum range of the measuring equipment.

DavidPS

@CrumblingCookie In this 1-minute clip Dr. Peat explains that running a 130 volt bulb in the standard 120 volt circuit ('standard' in the US) results in a weaker blue emision.

Ray Peat on best light bulbs to use, incandescent lights, red light.
Youtube Video

CrumblingCookie

@DavidPS Thanks for your clarification. Vaguely remembering this one now.
I've never tried them side by side. Wondering whether the lower blue light emission of an underpowered 130 Volts bulb in a 120 Volts socket compared to a 120 Volts bulb in a 120 Volts socket is any near to using a weaker (less wattage, therefore "warmer" color spectrum) 120 Volts bulb. Have you ever compared and noticed the differences?

DavidPS

@CrumblingCookie - I have not made the comparison but it is a good idea, Haidut started a thread about this back in 2013. I have not reread the thread; I have already made my purchase.
Red Light Experiment (120V Vs. 130V)