11KT - 11-keto-Testosterone
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@engineer I don't think it's that expensive. I would take low doses anyway so that's not an issue for me.
Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio What is your standard of expensive? 50mg costs about $2000, so if you wanted to do a nice small dose of 5mg per day, that's $200 per DAY. Compare that to something like boring old T propionate from PPL, and you're getting 100mg for around $50, 80x less per unit. Or if you did something like Pansterone and Kuinone, 10+2 drops would only be around $30 a MONTH, or $1 per day, a full 200 times cheaper than the 11 keto T equivalent.
But if we looked at the XI-KT product, it claims 2.55g for $70. That's already a lot cheaper than anything else I've mentioned so they either have a sweetheart bulk deal with a supplier or are faking the 11KT content.
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@engineer i just want to give it a try and run a low dose . Probably wouldn't even take it everyday so cost really isn't the issue here.
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@Mauritio If you're talking about XI-KT then that could work just as an experiment. Actually, a bottle is only $70, no different than what we'd pay for Idealabs, so I might try it too.
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@Mauritio Have you ordered this XI-KT thing yet? I was about to do so but was wondering if you had anything else of note to say before that.
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@bio3nergetic I took a lookat the junk ingredients and it appears as though those are in fact boring old lotion ingredients, as if this isn't simple liquid like from Idealabs but rather something more elaborate, but there are no photos anywhere of it being applied so it's hard to know for sure until one of us tries it out.
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Note that Peat didn't like keto group steroid variants in general maybe because the keto group's effects aren't as fully studied, but so far, there doesn't appear to be anything notable about 11 keto DHT other than its longer half life, so it's likely that the other ketos are sinilar.
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@engineer I know from personal experience, back in 2012 7-Keto made hair fall out that never grew back.
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@bio3nergetic I had to look this up and 7 keto DHEA is just plain weird. It's not an agonist or antagonist of anything but it does have some interesting enzymatic action.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10348924/
"Many studies showed that DHEA and some of its derivatives are thermogenic and that their ability to induce thermogenesis increases in the following sequence: DHEA–7-𝛼-OH-DHEA–7-keto-DHEA–7 𝛽-OH-DHEA [10]. Their thermogenic properties are likely attributed to increased levels of thermogenic enzymes that shuttle substrate and electrons in and out of the mitochondria and, due to increased proton leak, across the mitochondrial inner membrane. Like thyroid hormone, 7-keto-DHEA increases the levels of mitochondrial sn-glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase (mGPDH) and cytosolic malic enzyme, indicating that they enhance thermogenesis through similar mechanisms [11]. They use a metabolically inefficient pathway called glycerophosphate shuttle for electron transport that bypasses the NADH–ubiquinone sequence of the respiratory chain. The electron transport chain and the mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation coupled to it are disrupted [12, 13]. The energy released during the electron transfer is not sufficient to uphold the proton motive force across the inner mitochondrial membrane, lowering its membrane potential and dissipating the energy from the proton motive force as heat rather that producing ATP from ADP. To generate the previous proton motive force and the quantity of ATP, the amount of electron transfer must be increased and in consequence more substrate, more oxygen and more stored energy from the cells are consumed [14]. This supports the theory that 7-keto-DHEA promotes fat burning to gain energy by stimulating the fatty acyl CoA oxidase, which is the major enzyme in the oxidation of fatty acids [11]."
So, this suggests that enhancement of fatty acid oxidation is the underlying mechanism behind 7 keto's effects. If that is the case, then hair loss could indeed be a side effect due to hair follicles having strict energy requirements that FAO can't meet, like is seen with keto diets and obese people.
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@engineer Thanks. I think those main effects are fine, when 7-keto and other downstream metabolites are taken care of by the system, when in good health /metabolic status; controlled in other words. My earlier caution is precisely why Peat also didn't favor these metabolites much as supplemental. So I say to you guys, be careful.
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@engineer No I haven't ordered. I have some other things to try before. But it's definitely on my list.
Let us know how it goes!Dare to think.
My X:
x.com/Metabolicmonstr -
@Mauritio Ordered! It should arrive in a few days.
What other things were you going to try out?
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@engineer I've ordered phytol, which also has androgenic properties.
And maybe vitex Agnus castus and tetrahydrocurcumin.
