Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat
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I live in Manila, Philippines. I apologize for giving the wrong impression that treating for fungus is common after a round of antibiotics. It depends on the attending physician, and the one that took care of my mom delayed my mom's discharge by giving her antifungals after the antibiotics treatment.
I felt it was odd because it seemed to worsen my mom's condition. I felt fungus is not well understood by doctors. It's hit or miss.
I think that practicing solely germ theory detracts from a better understanding of fungus, given that pleomorphism in terrain theory allows for the idea that bacteria can change into fungus.
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@sunsunsun yeah I think so too and minimizing intake first. I stopped using my iron cast pan about 6 weeks ago. Had another blood test on Friday so we'll see if ferritin is still high.
Taurine always makes my cholestasis worse for some reason. It is constipating.
TUDCA I should give another try. -
@sunsunsun
The Japanese had found increased susceptibility to severe fungi infetion and mortality thereof in liver injuries. Additional transferrin negated the extra mortality from liver injury in rodent studies.
I.e., liver injuries lead to less transferrin (and UIBC (unbound iron binding capacity) and TIBC (total iron binding capacity) and it is that decrease of transferrin which enhances fungal infections.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2960898/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2975353/Copper (and retinol) are therefore very essential in prevention of fungal infections.
Not sure about any treatment efficacy after infection has already occured, though. Surely more free iron will stimulate fungal growth - but does iron restriction assist when aiming for fungal eradication from tissues?I have been trying to raise my ceruloplasmin (and thus functional transferrin) by regular copper intake since late last year.
Also, in this paper from 2000 a strong clinical distinction was suggested between acute disseminated candidiasis and chronic disseminated candididiasis: Again, in CDC, there's typically no candidemia and whereas ADC involves several organ system, CDC predominantly befalls the spleen and liver. Typical findings are hepatosplenomegaly, and focal hepatic lesions by ultrasound imaging and recurrent fevers although I reckon the presentation of the latter two will be subject to the mentioned individual immunological response and existence of an even more latent phenotype of CDC (as abundantly shown in other publications in this thread).
Interestingly, cultures and histophathology of liver biopsies again frequently failed to detect fungi proven to be present by clinical signs and PCR of liver biopsies (no positive fungi PCR in healthy control group).In this 1992 publication intrabiliary Amphotericin B was successfully used in a child after (typical) failure of priorly administred systemic AmB to clear the biliary infection. Good for her. Yet only downstream of the hepatic tumor she had been hospitalized for.
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@CrumblingCookie said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:
Copper (and retinol) are therefore very essential in prevention of fungal infections.
I have been trying to raise my ceruloplasmin (and thus functional transferrin) by regular copper intake since late last year.
Do you think consuming beef liver would be enough to help with this?
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@Mossy said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:
Do you think consuming beef liver would be enough to help with this?
In prevention, yes. Not when contaminated.
Copper (Cu):
in beef liver (3 oz.): 12 400 mcg
in chicken pan-fried (3 oz.): 455 mcg
in seeds the best options include sesame seeds, almonds, sunflower seeds, and cashews. A 1-ounce serving of these crunchy seeds can supply around 0.5 to 0.9 milligrams of copper.
In pumpkin seeds 1,34 mg per 100 g. 1 tbsp is 7.44 g and brings 99 mcg Cu. => I put 1 big tsp in my smoothie with pomegranate.Ceruloplasmin is a protein your liver makes. It helps copper circulate throughout your body and plays an important role in making the iron that you get from food ready to move from your intestines to organs like your spleen. You need copper to help maintain energy and bone health.
So, no direct need for blood or liver needs but well for SOD enzyme. Copper is required for sod enzyme in infection control. Cu and Zn are required for superoxide dismutase enzymes. Interaction between HD take (+/ 1/10 Cu/Zn).
And Yes, retinol is also required in the immune process (interaction with A D K). I take 2x/wk. 5 000 UI (retinyl palmitate). -
@CrumblingCookie said in Bile can serve as a reservoir for funghi, making them harder to treat:
but does iron restriction assist when aiming for fungal eradication from tissues?
I suspect so. At least on the sense that lower iron will make fungi more susceptible to anti-fungal treatment.
"The SC5314-strain and oral isolates showed enhanced antifungal-resistance towards most antifungals tested, under high iron."
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/20002297.2022.2044110#abstract -
This study has an interesting hint: we need small and hydrophilic molecules for an anti-fungal effects that isn't reduced by bile.
"In contrast, small and hydrophilic molecules, such as cycloheximide, flucytosine, or sodium azide kept their antifungal properties. "
It's difficult to not despair in the face of things continueingly worsening since the stop of fluconazole 300mg pd in spite of having commenced flucytosin treatment (100mg/kg BW /day) already 5 days ago.
Flucytosine's mechanism of action is a slow, gradual, delayed intracellular conversion and poisoning in contrast to the rather immediate mechanism of action of fluconazole.
Whilst Flu especially accumulates in mucosal tissues, it principally seems true that FCy doesn't even start to work within a couple of days but requires about 2 weeks to get going:
Fluconazole vs. flucytosine in the treatment of esophageal candidiasis in AIDS patients: a double-blind, placebo-controlled study, 1995
On the other hand, the FCy (5-FC) has been making me feel weak and woozy in the head since day one. It's also been exerting a weak cardiovascular burden.I've read in some paper that the fear of developing resistancy to FCy monotherapy is much exaggerated as there have been very few reported cases of it happening in-vivo.
The urgent recommendation of pairing FCy with i.v. AmB for at the very least 2 weeks of treatment induction must be, to a great extent, down to bridging the temporal gap until onset of FCy efficacy.Serologically, my C. albicans antibodies are nil and serum CAGTA antigen is also nil (that's the Candida spp. hyphal protein).
Thus, unless there's a specific humoral defect, C. albicans has no involvement at all in my case. C. glabrata, however, generally doesn't do hyphae but is able to be sufficiently nasty and virulent in its yeast form.
Circulating serum 1,3-beta-D-Glucan levels (as a systemic marker for most fungal species) also aren't elevated but at half of the lab's threshold.
There are therefore really no lab markers at all to support any physician in joining speculations on a hepatic/biliary fungal infection. It's difficult to not despair.Have stopped the borax drinking water.
Have started 500-1000mg of UDCA per day to enhance bile solubility and hydrophilicity.
Also trialled alpha-GPC for two days in this context. However, that turned super awful. Choline and in particular alpha-GPC is a superfood to fungi which they gobble up for its choline and phosphate.
Kind of disadvantageous when you know that the liver needs substantial amounts of choline for itself.
Have pinned 100mg Thiamin-HCl i.m.@mossy I wouldn't know! I dislike and distrust liver so have gone for the isolated substances and followed them up with testing of serum (free) copper, ceruloplasmin and retinol. IIRC there was one guy writing on the old RPF that he had eaten lots of liver regularly and his lack of copper was surprisingly unaffected until he started supplements.
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any opinion on pH and yeasts?
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@CrumblingCookie I hear you. It's frustrating.
Molybdenum might be good addition to help die off and metabolize acetaldehyde.
Ive recently noticed that eating radish seems to help me . I think it is downstream from improved liver and gallbladder health. Raddish can increase phase 2 detox in the liver and help with bile flow.
It's metabolites (sulforophane) also activate Nrf2.I've also ordered TUDCA and some homeopathic remedies, to help with bile flow.
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@Mauritio
Radish is an excellent idea. Both Horseradish and Tropaeolum majus / Nasturtium have significant selective antibiotic properties due to their isothiocyanate (ITC) content.
I've looked up the few (mostly in vitro) studies on it and Candida spp. are among the listed susceptible pathogens. C. albicans significantly more so than C. glabrata or C. krusei or C. tropicalis yet all are highly susceptible.
Allyl-ITC is the very volatile compound of fresh horseradish or also wasabi. It gives the pungent nasal effect.
Benzyl-ITC is the much less volatile liquid component. Whilst I cannot find any aetherial oil extract of horseradish, nasturtium or papaya seed (96% benzyl-ITC) it's actually available and even affordable as a pure substance: Even Sigma-Aldrich sells it for c. USD120 per 25g. Don't know how much and in what concentration to take it but benzyl-ITC looks well worth looking into.
It's reported to work by conjugating and thereby depleting cysteine and glutathione of yeasts and that provision of exogenous GSH (or NAC, I reckon) cancels out the antifungal effect.I've ordered capsules with a powdered horseradish + nasturtium blend for now and hope they will arrive soon.
In Eastern Europe there are traditional "Kren" tinctures (btw said to be great topically for hair roots and microcirculation). -
Hepatic fungal infections do occur in patients up to >8years after liver transplantation.
Can't see whether those are due to preexisting chronic infection of the donor organ (and remaining relatively dormant until idiosyncratic exacerbation or building up at a steady, gradual pace) or whether it's acquired by translocation during the life-long requirement of post-transplant immunosuppression.
Anyway:
The way such hepatic fungal infections are being treated is by flooding systemic antifungals to reign in extra-hepatic dissemination and then replacing the liver a couple of months later.
They discard the infected liver and put in another one. They don't even try to achieve hepatic tissue clearance.
What an astonishingly harsh fact to have sink in.
